Nathan Mackinnon - the best player in the league

[Greatzsky 99]

Do they have more Cups than McDrais too?


We need multiple paragraphs here or some indentation or something. At least you didnt begin sentences with lower case letters so plus for that.

But this is not readable. I stopped after the first two sentences laughing. Its MacKinnon and McDavid and Makar then a huge drop off to anyone else.

View attachment 954183

That is talking FOR McDavid hes not near his peak(according to you and slowing down) but had 100 assists, broke assist record in PO, had the 7th most all list of assists, beaten only by Gretzky, with Lemieux on 12th place, and had the 15th most point RS and PO all time, beaten only by the 2 greats and Bossy and so far this season is averaging like McKinnon who has peaked the last 3 seasons

 

[McFlash97]

You can cherry pick stats to fit your agenda all you want. At the end of the day, without drastically outscoring his peers, it comes down to this:

What would the Oilers be like without Draisaitl? McDavid would lead.
What would the Avalanche be like without MacKinnon? Rantanen couldnt handle it.
What would the Lightning be like without Kucherov? Point couldnt handle it.

Drais has an uphill battle to climb. I would argue Rantanen/Makar would step up for the Avs, but voters will quickly assume the above and they would assume the lightning will be a lottery team without Kuch.

Kiril honestly has the best case but seems to be falling off back to normalish.

Being superior to Mackinnon in 9 of 10 statistical categories isn't cherry picking. It's proof of who's the better overall player this season. Draisaitl is having an insane overall season on all fronts ! Now at 27 goals. So he is also the front runner for the Rocket.

 

[crowfish]

MacKinnon is up to an 11 to 0 advantage in stat pad points vs McDavid and yet:

Pts/game:
McDavid: 1.63
MacKinnon: 1.61

IF McDavid had 11 empty net points vs 0 for MacKinnon the pts/game would look like this

McDavid 1.96
MacKinnon 1.31

I would hope the "best player in the league" would be crushing his competition in points with an 11-point head start

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

It's too bad everyone got sucked into Arnie Grape's little inferiority session. There are a lot of great players going right now, and it seems like people are too busy picking sides to enjoy it.

 

[dirtydanglez]

if empty net goals are so easy why isn't your guy scoring them

 

[Fishy McScales]

if empty net goals are so easy why isn't your guy scoring them

One theory would be that he is busier defending the lead than flying the zone for extra points.

MacKinnon has his cup. McDavid doesn't, so he's probably doubly focused on rounding out his overall game instead of chasing individual accolades.

Having said that, McDavid is in a bit of a slump despite being on a 12-game scoring streak. He has only 1 goal in his last 9 and is not playing up to his usual standards since a few games before Christmas.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Being superior to Mackinnon in 9 of 10 statistical categories isn't cherry picking. It's proof of who's the better overall player this season. Draisaitl is having an insane overall season on all fronts ! Now at 27 goals. So he is also the front runner for the Rocket.

No it's not, simply because those stats are not put into the context of strenght of opposition. On most nights, MacKinnon is facing the best defenders, just like McDavid does, whereas Drai gets to often feast on secondary opposition, when seperated from McDavid.

 

[Fishy McScales]

No it's not, simply because those stats are not put into the context of strenght of opposition. On most nights, MacKinnon is facing the best defenders, just like McDavid does, whereas Drai gets to often feast on secondary opposition, when seperated from McDavid.

Drai does get somewhat easier matchups but he also plays with lesser teammates typically.

 

[PaulD]

One theory would be that he is busier defending the lead than flying the zone for extra points.

MacKinnon has his cup. McDavid doesn't, so he's probably doubly focused on rounding out his overall game instead of chasing individual accolades.

Having said that, McDavid is in a bit of a slump despite being on a 12-game scoring streak. He has only 1 goal in his last 9 and is not playing up to his usual standards since a few games before Christmas.

Scoring wise McDavid hasn't played up to his standards since he broke the 60 goal mark. Couple of seasons ago.

 

[Wings4Life]

Scoring wise McDavid hasn't played up to his standards since he broke the 60 goal mark. Couple of seasons ago.

McDavid's real problem was only scoring 10 points in his first 10 games to start this season while being completely healthy.

Shockingly bad result for a 27 year old McDavid, and it set him back. He is within striking distance of the scoring race leader now, but will he outperform the MacKinnons and Kucherovs this year, or won't he? Who knows.

 

[PaulD]

McDavid's real problem was only scoring 10 points in his first 10 games to start this season while being completely healthy.

Shockingly bad result for a 27 year old McDavid, and it set him back. He is within striking distance of the scoring race leader now, but will he outperform the MacKinnons and Kucherovs this year, or won't he? Who knows.

We used to know.

I could see McDavid somewhat pacing himself offensively to improve his defensive game to lead the team. Then come play off look like he was shot out of a cannon offensively.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Scoring wise McDavid hasn't played up to his standards since he broke the 60 goal mark. Couple of seasons ago.

Like I said in another post, last season he was playing injured all year. His SH% dropped but was still decent at around 12%. However, the injury made him avoid certain movements such as shooting which lead to around 100 fewer shots which combined with a lower SH% cut his goal totals in half.

I think he looks healthy again this year but the form has been a bit up and down. Started slow (like the whole team), picked it up but has looked worse again lately despite being on a 12-game point streak.

 

[tucker3434]

McDavid is the best player in the world. MacKinnon is in that next group with several other guys. Any of those guys can look like the best for stretch of time, but it’ll be McDavid most often. That’s why he’s the best. It’s no more complex than that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Like I said in another post, last season he was playing injured all year. His SH% dropped but was still decent at around 12%. However, the injury made him avoid certain movements such as shooting which lead to around 100 fewer shots which combined with a lower SH% cut his goal totals in half.

I think he looks healthy again this year but the form has been a bit up and down. Started slow (like the whole team), picked it up but has looked worse again lately despite being on a 12-game point streak.

Still has 23 points in his last 12 games. 3 goals, but holy shit, 15 primary assists. 1.5 primary points per game, which was his pace in his 153 points season (124 in 82 games). He's scoring less, but is playmaking more.

He's back to his primaty assist form of last year where he had 50 primary assists in 49 games between the end of November till around mid-March.

He now has 20 A1s in his past 20 games.

Only Gretzky and Lemieux had done a stretch of 50 A1s in 50 or fewer games. Gretzky 9 times and Lemieux twice. McDavid is the 3rd player to do it.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Still has 23 points in his last 12 games. 3 goals, but holy shit, 15 primary assists. 1.5 primary points per game, which was his pace in his 153 points season (124 in 82 games). He's scoring less, but is playmaking more.

He's back to his primaty assist form of last year where he had 50 primary assists in 49 games between the end of November till around mid-March.

He now has 20 A1s in his past 20 games.

Only Gretzky and Lemieux had done a stretch of 50 A1s in 50 or fewer games. Gretzky 9 times and Lemieux twice. McDavid is the 3rd player to do it.

Indeed but he definitely looks a bit sloppier and lacks confidence in his finishing.

It's not uncommon for him to have stretches like that, though, so I'm not overly worried about it.

The fact that him only going PPG to start the year is considered a massive slump says a lot about him lol.

 

[PaulD]

Like I said in another post, last season he was playing injured all year. His SH% dropped but was still decent at around 12%. However, the injury made him avoid certain movements such as shooting which lead to around 100 fewer shots which combined with a lower SH% cut his goal totals in half.

I think he looks healthy again this year but the form has been a bit up and down. Started slow (like the whole team), picked it up but has looked worse again lately despite being on a 12-game point streak.

Yea in the last couple seasons McDavids play has decreased ever so slightly....while Mackinnon ( and Kucherovs) play has increased slightly. Closing the gap and spurring these debates.
It's all good.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Drai does get somewhat easier matchups but he also plays with lesser teammates typically.

Considering that, like McDavid, he can accomplish a lot by himself, weaker opponents is probably more benefitial to him than getting better linemates.

 

[GMofOilers]

Not to bad for a player that isnt considered the best in this thread?

 

[benfranklin]

Being superior to Mackinnon in 9 of 10 statistical categories isn't cherry picking. It's proof of who's the better overall player this season. Draisaitl is having an insane overall season on all fronts ! Now at 27 goals. So he is also the front runner for the Rocket.

Points
Assists

Thats 2 pretty important statistical categories. Your math isnt mathin.

Not to bad for a player that isnt considered the best in this thread?

Who is the only player on that list without a ring?

 

[Fishy McScales]

Yea in the last couple seasons McDavids play has decreased ever so slightly....while Mackinnon ( and Kucherovs) play has increased slightly. Closing the gap and spurring these debates.
It's all good.

Again, he was hurt last year and still put up a 100-assist campaign and a Gretzky-esque postseason.

If you want to present that as his play decreasing, I think you're being a bit disingenuous.

Personally I think the jury is still out on that one.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Considering that, like McDavid, he can accomplish a lot by himself, weaker opponents is probably more benefitial to him than getting better linemates.

I agree to a point, but I often find this aspect of the argument is left out, not just with these two players.

People bring up QoC but ignore QoT even though they are usually closely linked.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

“regular season superstar”…..
You lose all credibility when you say stuff like this. He’s third all time in playoff ppg and very well can overtake Lemieux for second by career’s end as he briefly did already this season. He had the biggest margin over a non teammate in the history of the NHL playoffs this past season, had the highest era adjusted playoff point output and broke Gretzky’s single season playoff assist record.

Draisaitl went goalless in the finals and if he’s even remotely healthy they win a cup. He had 3 points in 7 games (Crosby’s stat line in 09 when they won by the way) and I’m sure people say he was cup worthy. This is in a year where nobody really saw them even making it to the finals. It’s not McDavid’s fault if he can’t win a cup with arguably the greatest playoff run ever. You can’t always have cups won for you with massive support. Kind of like Makar did for MacKinnon and perhaps even Malkin for Crosby in 09. You also can’t play in a non salary cap era if you are McDavid with several HOF players like Gretzky and Mario did. Anyone who is unbiased knows this.

If you want to see a regular season superstar check out the drop in MacGinnon points per game from regular season to playoffs the last two seasons.

These only seasons where he's managed to be in the Drai/Kucherov tier in the regular season he's been a complete donkey in the playoffs.

This year will be his third post season in a row where Aves fans will wish they had a tin man Joe Thornton instead of MacGinnon.

 

[GMofOilers]

Points
Assists

Thats 2 pretty important statistical categories. Your math isnt mathin.


Who is the only player on that list without a ring?

Didnt know his career was already over....... He could end up with the most rings on that list.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Who is the only player on that list without a ring?

what does that have to do with individual stats?

 

[benfranklin]

Drai does get somewhat easier matchups but he also plays with lesser teammates typically.

Tell me more...

Math says 35%+ of his even strength time is still with McDavid. Throw in the powerplay and it is 44%+ of total time. That sure is a lot of time with mcDavid when Draisaitil himself is supposedly a 1C. And captain obvious, when he isn't with McDavid, he is getting weaker matchups, but lets blame his linemates only.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Didnt know his career was already over....... He could end up with the most rings on that list.

What logo will be on the ring you think? Ill go Kings or Leafs.

what does that have to do with individual stats?

Because anyone pumping ind stats ignores the rings, which someone still doesnt have.