Nathan Mackinnon - the best player in the league

TheLegend27

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May 11, 2024
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Kucherov has been the best player in the league for the past 2 years now. That's enough for someone to declare the number 1 in the league. Maybe age is catching up with the speedy playing style of 97. And MacKinnon is close but just a tad behind Kucherov. All praise MacKinnon, not enough love for the celebral Tampa Bay player which goes along his business more quietly. I don't think 97 will catch either of them this season. He doesn't look like the peak form of himself a couple of years ago. Too less pracmatic goal oriented plays. He hasn't adapted to a slightly less speed oriented playing style good enough and this lends me to believe he will age faster than a player like Draisatil or Kucherov. He he not in 99 or 66 league and I don't hate on him. I don't care how many Rosses he may still win and I doubt there will be many more if any. Just trying to give a neutral observation. The excuse of having nothing to prove in the regular season and concentrating on the playoffs and the stanley cup doesn't cut it for me. What if players like 66 or 99 thought like that. That's one of the reasons the truly greats of the game separate themselves from the normal star players along with their peak and prime performances and comsistency (which I agree doesn't work for guys like Lemieux or Orr, but they were so much better than the rest of the league that they belong in this group). His 1 or 2 truly exceptional seasons statitistically seem to have been his peak. For 66 or 99 it would have been their averagely good season in their prime. As good as Kucherov, Draisaitl or MacKinnon are, players like prime 66 or 99 wouldn't lose multiple scoring chases against them let's be real here.
How has Kucherov been the best player for the past two years if that time span includes McDavid 2023?. Last year McDavid went under PPG for the first 10 games due to playing through injury, and after recovering led the league in points for the last 70~ games. I just believe if you give every GM a choice between Kuch and McDavid for this season, only Tampa and maybe Calgary GMs would actually choose Kucherov.
 
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gimzo23

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Jan 5, 2006
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How has Kucherov been the best player for the past two years if that time span includes McDavid 2023?. Last year McDavid went under PPG for the first 10 games due to playing through injury, and after recovering led the league in points for the last 70~ games. I just believe if you give every GM a choice between Kuch and McDavid for this season, only Tampa and maybe Calgary GMs would actually choose Kucherov.
If McDavid was the best in 2023 he would have won the Art Ross playing 76 games, since he's being praised to be among, and compared to the greatest offensive players who ever played the game.
 

Killer Orcas

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I would argue that Mitch Marner is one of the best right now in the league

He runs the team in TO and Matthews feeds off of him. TO would be much worse IMO if Marner was gone. He's the best player on that team.
Well he's picked it up even more since this was posted. Wonder if Matthews is still considered undisputed best player in Toronto now? I've always thought Marner was just as good if not better but Matthews never got half the heat Marner ever did.
 
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WalterLundy

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Nov 7, 2023
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If McDavid was the best in 2023 he would have won the Art Ross playing 76 games, since he's being praised to be among, and compared to the greatest offensive players who ever played the game.
In 2022-2023 McDavid clinched the Art Ross in his 68th game with 129 points. If you remove his teammate Draisaitl (second place that year) he eclipsed his closest non teammate in Nikita Kucherov in his 61st game with 114 and 115 points that day.

If you are just talking 2023-24 McDavid’s overall team terrible start and injury cost him an Art Ross only because Kucherov and MacKinnon had seasons on par with a prime/peak Jaromir Jagr. Panarin had a season that is more in line with McDavid’s typical Ross competition. Since those two had monster seasons combined with McDavid’s injury it opened the door. From the time he recovered from his injury on November 24th 2023 to game 7 of the SCF he had 158 points in 85 total games. 1.86 ppg which is virtually identical to his 2020-21 and 2022-23 seasons at 1.88 and 1.87 respectively. He was still clearly the best player for 2023-24 in totality.

The reason he gets compared to Gretzky and Lemieux is because he is better offensively than anyone other than those two in this history of the game.
 

gimzo23

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Jan 5, 2006
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In 2022-2023 McDavid clinched the Art Ross in his 68th game with 129 points. If you remove his teammate Draisaitl (second place that year) he eclipsed his closest non teammate in Nikita Kucherov in his 61st game with 114 and 115 points that day.

If you are just talking 2023-24 McDavid’s overall team terrible start and injury cost him an Art Ross only because Kucherov and MacKinnon had seasons on par with a prime/peak Jaromir Jagr. Panarin had a season that is more in line with McDavid’s typical Ross competition. Since those two had monster seasons combined with McDavid’s injury it opened the door. From the time he recovered from his injury on November 24th 2023 to game 7 of the SCF he had 158 points in 85 total games. 1.86 ppg which is virtually identical to his 2020-21 and 2022-23 seasons at 1.88 and 1.87 respectively. He was still clearly the best player for 2023-24 in totality.

The reason he gets compared to Gretzky and Lemieux is because he is better offensively than anyone other than those two in this history of the game.
Streaks and stretches isn't how this works though if it ends up with pretty much nothing to show up for in the end. Kucherov and MacKinnon look to be nearly as dominant like last season and might be repeating the seasons they had last year. If we assume these seasons to be all three of them at their peaks, the generational talent looks to be slighly on the losing end once again. From what I've seen this season, Draisaitl seems to be the best Oiler even. McDavid is a potential annual 60+ goal scorer, but he's not making anywhere close to the best of it. Even a 39 year old Ovechkin easily outscores him. Plus Kucherov came within 9 points of McDavid's best season and doesn't look like slowing down any time soon. Peer-to-peer domination to me is one of the best measurements in comparing the greatest or best players and he's just not showing enough of it on a constant regular basis.
 

Dirty Mind

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Apr 26, 2022
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No Oiler fan thinks McDavid is at the level of Gretzky. But we know how blessed we are, he is a legitimate generational talent and the numbers prove it.

Best points-per-game among players who played at least 500 games:

(Name/Games played/PPG)
Gretzky (1487) 1.92
Lemieux (915) 1.88
McDavid (678) 1.53
Bossy (752) 1.50
Orr (657) 1.39
Dionne (1348) 1.31
Statsny (977) 1.27
Forsberg (708) 1.25
Crosby (1310) 1.25
Nilsson (553) 1.24
Esposito (1282) 1.24
Kucherov (757) 1.22
Lafleur (1126) 1.20
Draisaitl (755) 1.20
Sakic (1378) 1.19
Hawerchuk (1188) 1.19
LaFontaine (865) 1.17
Panarin (705) 1.16
Yzernan (1514) 1.16
MacKinnon (828) 1.16


The data shows Kucherov and MacKinnon are a Draisaitl-level player, which is amazing. They have the ability to compete for the Art Ross in years when everything goes right for them.

But McDavid is generational for a reason - his consistency is above all the rest and only two other players in NHL history have a better Points-Per-Game. Guess who those two are?

The next closest forward to McDavid is Bossy with 1.50. And then there’s a huge gap between them and Marcel Dionne with 1.31.

The numbers speak for themselves.

It’s sad there’s so many hockey fans here who are more butthurt about Oilers fans getting to watch McDavid play for their team then just appreciating him.
 
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authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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No Oiler fan thinks McDavid is at the level of Gretzky. But we know how blessed we are, he is a legitimate generational talent and the numbers prove it.

Best points-per-game among players who played at least 500 games:

(Name/Games played/PPG)
Gretzky (1487) 1.92
Lemieux (915) 1.88
McDavid (678) 1.53
Bossy (752) 1.50
Orr (657) 1.39
Dionne (1348) 1.31
Statsny (977) 1.27
Forsberg (708) 1.25
Crosby (1310) 1.25
Nilsson (553) 1.24
Esposito (1282) 1.24
Kucherov (757) 1.22
Lafleur (1126) 1.20
Draisaitl (755) 1.20
Sakic (1378) 1.19
Hawerchuk (1188) 1.19
LaFontaine (865) 1.17
Panarin (705) 1.16
Yzernan (1514) 1.16
MacKinnon (828) 1.16


The data shows Kucherov and MacKinnon are a Draisaitl-level player, which is amazing. They have the ability to compete for the Art Ross in years when everything goes right for them.

But McDavid is generational for a reason - his consistency is above all the rest and only two other players in NHL history have a better Points-Per-Game. Guess who those two are?

The next closest forward to McDavid is Bossy with 1.50. And then there’s a huge gap between them and Marcel Dionne with 1.31.

The numbers speak for themselves.

It’s sad there’s so many hockey fans here who are more butthurt about Oilers fans getting to watch McDavid play for their team then just appreciating him.

Forsbergs points per game is amazing for the era he played in and considering he brought a lot more than just offense. Really kind of surprised there isn’t a bigger gap between him and McDavid when you take into account how much higher scoring the league has become and McDavid not playing a game past his age 27/28 season yet.
 
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Antropovsky

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Well he's picked it up even more since this was posted. Wonder if Matthews is still considered undisputed best player in Toronto now? I've always thought Marner was just as good if not better but Matthews never got half the heat Marner ever did.
Yes Matthews is very easily the best player in Toronto still. Despite having injury issues this year, Matthews still quite comfortably leads the league in 5v5: ixg/60, individual high danger chances for/60 and individual scoring chances for/60.....and all Marner is he was a Selke finalist once.

There is good reason Matthews has one Hart Trophy, one Lindsay and and of course, three Rockets, one Calder, and last year was a Selke finalist and again a Lindsay finalist Not to mention Matthews has a 57% faceoff percentage this year.


There’s no conspiracy against Marner. The reason he faces the majority of criticism from coaches, former players, analysts, media, and fans is because it’s warranted. He’s slow, has a weak shot, physically weak, and dealthy afraid of physical areas....some playoff games he's unwatchable.
 
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Greatzsky 99

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May 9, 2022
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Streaks and stretches isn't how this works though if it ends up with pretty much nothing to show up for in the end. Kucherov and MacKinnon look to be nearly as dominant like last season and might be repeating the seasons they had last year. If we assume these seasons to be all three of them at their peaks, the generational talent looks to be slighly on the losing end once again. From what I've seen this season, Draisaitl seems to be the best Oiler even. McDavid is a potential annual 60+ goal scorer, but he's not making anywhere close to the best of it. Even a 39 year old Ovechkin easily outscores him. Plus Kucherov came within 9 points of McDavid's best season and doesn't look like slowing down any time soon. Peer-to-peer domination to me is one of the best measurements in comparing the greatest or best players and he's just not showing enough of it on a constant regular basis.
McKinnon is 0.04 ppg higher than McDavid right know.

Does the playoffs count for you?

last 3 years

McKinnon 38 20 + 25 = 45 1.184 ppg
Kucherov 34 9 + 31 = 40 1.176 ppg
McDavid 53 26 + 69 = 95 1.792 ppg

seems like some kind of peer to peer domination to me, or would you take some one
seriously who said that some who has 0.578 ppg would be as good as McKinnon and Kucherov
and they would not dominate their peers?
 

Greatzsky 99

Registered User
May 9, 2022
49
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Forsbergs points per game is amazing for the era he played in and considering he brought a lot more than just offense. Really kind of surprised there isn’t a bigger gap between him and McDavid when you take into account how much higher scoring the league has become and McDavid not playing a game past his age 27/28 season yet.
In forsbergs 2nd season the scoring was the highest it has been since then, the differnce between isnt much higher scoring area, check out for your self to see how little or if any differnce it is between Forsberg and McDavid era


from 1972-1994 was a higher scoring era, every of those seasons beat all who has been since then.
 

Greatzsky 99

Registered User
May 9, 2022
49
48
And has 10 empty net points to McDavid's 0 empty net points.

McDavid is still the best player.
Yeah i think the numbers are facts that speak for themselves, McKinnon has reached a remarkable height and i give him full credit, and Kucherov is also extraordinary. But McDavid is something else, just he things he does, over a point per game ES, only... yeah you already now... but Mario had "only" 951 ESP in 915 games.

And the things he produced in last playoff, goal againt dallas, the assist to Perry, thats wizardry.

This is just my personal opinion but McDavid is easily the most exciting and electrifying player to watch.
 
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Killer Orcas

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Yes Matthews is very easily the best player in Toronto still. Despite having injury issues this year, Matthews still quite comfortably leads the league in 5v5: ixg/60, individual high danger chances for/60 and individual scoring chances for/60.....and all Marner is he was a Selke finalist once.

There is good reason Matthews has one Hart Trophy, one Lindsay and and of course, three Rockets, one Calder, and last year was a Selke finalist and again a Lindsay finalist Not to mention Matthews has a 57% faceoff percentage this year.


There’s no conspiracy against Marner. The reason he faces the majority of criticism from coaches, former players, analysts, media, and fans is because it’s warranted. He’s slow, has a weak shot, physically weak, and dealthy afraid of physical areas....some playoff games he's unwatchable.
If Toronto really believes this why would you not trade him at his peak now today? You plan on letting him walk for nothing or do you guys plan on paying this and I quote here " slow, weak shot. physically weak' player close to 14 per?
 

wetcoast

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Nov 20, 2018
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Mackinnon and Kucherov are tier 2 after Mcdavid

Tier 1
1. Mcdavid

Tier 2
2. Mack/Kuch
3. Kuch/Mack

Tier 3
4. Draisaitl
5. Kaprizov
6. Makar
7. Matthews
8. Barkov
9. Q Hughes
10. Rantanen

And a bunch of Honorable mentions who can be argued to be top 10ish players (Jack Hughes, Eichel, Marner, Aho, Tkachuk, Fox, Josi, Pastranak, etc etc etc))
Draisaitl is up in tier 2 this year though along with Quinn Hughes and perhaps Makar as well.

Mack has to be the frontrunner for the Hart right now one would think.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,801
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Yeah, Nathan MacKinnon is probably the best player in the league in 2025.
No one is coming for your beloved McDavid Oilers fans.

If the Avs had even remotely competent goaltending to start the year and weren't absolutely riddled by injury, they'd be far and away the best team in the league in my humble opinion.

I honestly think after the deadline they're going to be prime candidates, along with Vegas to get through the Western conference.
 

BertMcDrai

Middle old guy loving sports
Nov 26, 2018
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Draisaitl is up in tier 2 this year though along with Quinn Hughes and perhaps Makar as well.

Mack has to be the frontrunner for the Hart right now one would think.
This Year both of Drai and Kaprizov are Tier 1...the others are close behind but without being biased it's clear that those two where the best until now...season is long and everything can happen but at this point MacK has done nothing better than Drai and Kaprizov this year.
 
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wetcoast

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Nov 20, 2018
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This Year both of Drai and Kaprizov are Tier 1...the others are close behind but without being biased it's clear that those two where the best until now...season is long and everything can happen but at this point MacK has done nothing better than Drai and Kaprizov this year.
Sure but are the voters really going to vote for Drai as McDavid is there and will probably score more points and ya everyone forgets Minny.

I honestly think that Jack Eichel might get more votes than Kaprizov if voting was held today not that I entirely agree but.......
 

Antropovsky

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Jun 2, 2007
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If Toronto really believes this why would you not trade him at his peak now today? You plan on letting him walk for nothing or do you guys plan on paying this and I quote here " slow, weak shot. physically weak' player close to 14 per?
Marner has a NMC now.

Im not sure what management was thinking. Shanahans timing has been incredibly bad... hiring rookie Dubas right when the core 4 needed contracts. Firing Dubas right when 2/4 NMC's kicked-in.

I agree stupid to let Marner walk for nothing.

However, I'd still let him walk though. That's me though.
 
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Killer Orcas

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Marner has a NMC now.

Im not sure what management was thinking. Shanahans timing has been incredibly bad... hiring rookie Dubas right when the core 4 needed contracts. Firing Dubas right when 2/4 NMC's kicked-in.

I agree stupid to let Marner walk for nothing.

However, I'd still let him walk though. That's me though.
Forgot about NMC Leafs in tough spot here. He's getting paid from someone regardless but if you feel he's not worth the contract I suppose it's best to walk away then hamstring the cap moving forward.
 
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DFC

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Streaks and stretches isn't how this works though if it ends up with pretty much nothing to show up for in the end. Kucherov and MacKinnon look to be nearly as dominant like last season and might be repeating the seasons they had last year. If we assume these seasons to be all three of them at their peaks, the generational talent looks to be slighly on the losing end once again. From what I've seen this season, Draisaitl seems to be the best Oiler even. McDavid is a potential annual 60+ goal scorer, but he's not making anywhere close to the best of it. Even a 39 year old Ovechkin easily outscores him. Plus Kucherov came within 9 points of McDavid's best season and doesn't look like slowing down any time soon. Peer-to-peer domination to me is one of the best measurements in comparing the greatest or best players and he's just not showing enough of it on a constant regular basis.
Kucherov is about the same as last year but the rest of the team is playing a lot better. Last year it was really a one man show until March.

If Kucherov had been just another star player, I really don't think we would have made the playoffs. He had to hit a whole new level of lethal to get us in. And he's still there.

Marner has a NMC now.

Im not sure what management was thinking. Shanahans timing has been incredibly bad... hiring rookie Dubas right when the core 4 needed contracts. Firing Dubas right when 2/4 NMC's kicked-in.

I agree stupid to let Marner walk for nothing.

However, I'd still let him walk though. That's me though.
I think you have to. Especially if the Leafs don't look like a real threat in the playoffs. If they don't make the final four, I think somebody's gotta go.
 
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