Nashville Predators talk - The Offseason

[Gh24]

I've got to say I've never really understood using appeals to authority as an argument. Should this board function as only a place to agree with the decisions the team makes? Because I don't find that particularly interesting. It also assumes that coaches are infallible and never make a poor decision.

I agree to an extent but I'm just trying to understand why fan perception seems to be significantly higher for Evangelista (and to a lesser extent Parsinnen) when compared to Tomasino. I get preferring Evangelista and even fall into that category myself but there certainly isn't much in the numbers there that suggest he should be held in such a higher regard.

To your first point. I'm talking for myself, but I find it more like a reasonable doubt. A decision that seems stupid to me may have a good reasoning based on things I don't see or know. I don't say I agree with it. I just don't want to make a strong statement with limited information. That does make me a boring part of the conversation, thought. I realise that. That's why I don't ignore anyone here. I welcome all opinions and argue with the ones I disagree with. Sometimes the argument simply is that we don't know all the details, so from rational standpoint it would be fair not to judge too hard.

However, that ignores one major part of fandom, though. Emotion. I'm rooting for Preds from abroad. I don't have the similar emotional bond to Preds than some of you do. I do have that for my local club, so don't think I don't know what you're experiencing. Emotion is a vital part of fandom. It's not rational. It sometimes seem dumb for someone with a less enotional bond. But it's a vital part of fandom.

People from different backgrounds with different levels of commitment meets on these discussion boards. One doesn't fully understand the other, so the views will ALWAYS differ to some extent. That's why I tend to like posts that are well argued even if I disagree with them.

This kinda went further than just replying to you, so please consider it as a general thought .

To your second point it's the flashy plays that you notice. Not necessarily just that, but I believe it's mostly that

 

[Predsanddead24]

To your second point it's the flashy plays that you notice. Not necessarily just that, but I believe it's mostly that

The thing is I agree that Evangelista looks better than Tomasino and that hockey is more than just the statsheet, but its also interesting to me that there just isn't much of a statistical case you can make for Evangelista performing better than Tomasino last season. +/- is really the only thing Evangelista is better at but when you consider usage and linemates I think the statistical case actually comes out in Tomasino's favor.

 

[Kat Predator]

Speaking for myself, I've pulled for both Evangelista and Tomasino as I do with all our draft picks, most of whom never make it. They're our guys and I want them both to be wildly successful. While objectively, that's just not very likely, I'd just be happy for them to be solid NHL players for our team.

Both of them are very young and have had good moments and much less good moments. Development is most often a rollercoaster ride. They both seemed to bolt out of the gate and play well, raising expectations on themselves. Then things got a bit harder. With the influx of free agent veterans, it may be difficult for either or both of them. The bar has been raised and I'm not sure either one of them has earned an "automatic" - they both have to continue to progress - and both of them were drafted as and are more offensive forwards than the grinder, heavy-checking, crush people into the boards type of forwards that coaches want on those "identity" / "hard to play against" lines.

 

[weeze]

The "the coaches ruined Tomasino" thing is tired, he hasn't shown anything except being able to put up .5 ppg in sheltered minutes against grinders. He at least played his normal position and was given top6 minutes and PP time.

So a young kid playing sheltered minutes against grinders is putting up .5 ppg. Poor kid! He should be demoted for such poor play! Lets see who played at .5 ppg or less last season:
Luke - .49
Sissons - .43
Sherwood - .40
Smith - .29
McCarron - .31
Jank - .47

Looks like he would fit in with the rest of these poor players.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

So a young kid playing sheltered minutes against grinders is putting up .5 ppg. Poor kid! He should be demoted for such poor play! Lets see who played at .5 ppg or less last season:
Luke - .49
Sissons - .43
Sherwood - .40
Smith - .29
McCarron - .31
Jank - .47

Looks like he would fit in with the rest of these poor players.

That's great. Now to be more than a tweener that isn't useful on the PK he needs to prove he can produce against top offensive talent and not just get pinned in his own zone.

 

[herzausstein]

That's great. Now to be more than a tweener that isn't useful on the PK he needs to prove he can produce against top offensive talent and not just get pinned in his own zone.

Not sure how he will get that chance given the additions this season... or even if Evangelista will get that shot. With Nyquist, Forsberg, Stamkos, and Marchessault assuming the top 6 wing roles i'm not sure where any of the younger players will land. Even if stamkos slides to center, novak isnt a bottom 6 style player

 

[triggrman]

Not sure how he will get that chance given the additions this season... or even if Evangelista will get that shot. With Nyquist, Forsberg, Stamkos, and Marchessault assuming the top 6 wing roles i'm not sure where any of the younger players will land. Even if stamkos slides to center, novak isnt a bottom 6 style player

In today's game, most teams run 3 scoring lines. Novak is exactly that 3rd line type center in that type structure.

 

[herzausstein]

In today's game, most teams run 3 scoring lines. Novak is exactly that 3rd line type center in that type structure.

I personally dont foresee Sissons getting demoted to the 4th line. We will see what Bruno has in mind though.

 

[triggrman]

I personally dont foresee Sissons getting demoted to the 4th line. We will see what Bruno has in mind though.

that's a good point. Guess we're all in wait and see mode. I'd say there's a good chance we run 3 scoring lines though because of Novak and Evangelista

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Between injuries and the natural need to mix and match for chemistry or performance I'm sure there will be chances for the younger guys to show off.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I personally dont foresee Sissons getting demoted to the 4th line. We will see what Bruno has in mind though.

My guess (and also what I hope will happen) is that we will run three scoring lines and a defensive/grind type of line centered by Sissons. However, I think that line will probably get a sizeable chunk of icetime and Sissons in particular will still get extra opportunity as our D specialist center in crucial moments. Although I do wonder if there is a little more juice to squeeze out of Sissons with some skilled players too. He kind of quietly had a career year offensively last season and that was with a rotating cast of linemates. I think Marchessault specifically might be an interesting option to pair with Sissons.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

My guess (and also what I hope will happen) is that we will run three scoring lines and a defensive/grind type of line centered by Sissons. However, I think that line will probably get a sizeable chunk of icetime and Sissons in particular will still get extra opportunity as our D specialist center in crucial moments. Although I do wonder if there is a little more juice to squeeze out of Sissons with some skilled players too. He kind of quietly had a career year offensively last season and that was with a rotating cast of linemates. I think Marchessault specifically might be an interesting option to pair with Sissons.

We say this every year with the three scoring lines bit and then always get disappointed we run 3/4 as grinders. I'm not falling for it this year.

 

[Kat Predator]

In today's game, most teams run 3 scoring lines. Novak is exactly that 3rd line type center in that type structure.

Honestly, I don't see Novak as all that great a fit at that spot. I'd bounce him out to wing, where he can use his stickhandling, speed, and creativity more and have less defensive responsibility. Unless he goes Brian Bosworth with the 'roids, he's just never going to be the physically imposing guy who can lockdown and control the middle of the ice against other top centres. He was effectively a no-show in the playoffs last year, watching the game and nailed to the end of the bench.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Honestly, I don't see Novak as all that great a fit at that spot. I'd bounce him out to wing, where he can use his stickhandling, speed, and creativity more and have less defensive responsibility. Unless he goes Brian Bosworth with the 'roids, he's just never going to be the physically imposing guy who can lockdown and control the middle of the ice against other top centres. He was effectively a no-show in the playoffs last year, watching the game and nailed to the end of the bench.

I don't think he's strong enough defensively, or at the dot, to be a consistent center. I'm assuming 2nd or 3rd line wing. Evangelista on whichever of those Novak isn't. Expecting Big Sexy, Smith, Jank/grinder on the 4th, that leaves one wing spot next to Sissons and Novak/Vange on the 3rd for Tomasino/Jank/Svechkov/Kemell/L'Heureux/whoever

 

[triggrman]

He’s never going to overpower anyone but he can get stronger. His game will always be speed and he’s not the only scoring line center like that. Also as your 3rd scoring line center he won’t be matched up against the oppositions top line every time he’s out

 

[Armourboy]

He’s never going to overpower anyone but he can get stronger. His game will always be speed and he’s not the only scoring line center like that. Also as your 3rd scoring line center he won’t be matched up against the oppositions top line every time he’s out

As Bringer said, I'll believe that 3rd scoring line mess when I actually see one. Feels like we've been hearing that going back to Lavi and it has never really happened. Now we might actually get it this season simple because of all of the Vets we brought in, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

As Bringer said, I'll believe that 3rd scoring line mess when I actually see one. Feels like we've been hearing that going back to Lavi and it has never really happened. Now we might actually get it this season simple because of all of the Vets we brought in, but I'm not holding my breath.

Seems like lines might work better if we put Evangelista on 2nd line and Marchessault on 3rd. That would allow for either Tomasino or one of the kids on 3rd line with a vet on the other wing and give Evangelista chance to shine with Stamkos on 2nd line. Not sure how centers would fit best, but my concern is if we stack vets in top 6 3rd line will get caved if we don’t go all grinder, which we don’t want to do.

 

[Ben Grimm]

"One of the most revealing parts of the conversation was how surprised and disappointed he was that the Golden Knights were willing to let him walk in free agency. Strickland asked about the organization's loyalty to him and Marchessault was very open in his response. "There's definitely no loyalty," he said".

Predators Forward Opens Up About Wild Offseason

The Nashville Predators had one of the best off-seasons in the NHL this summer. The additions of Steven Stamkos, Brady Skjei, and Jonathan Marchessault brings v

www.si.com

 

[Predsanddead24]

"One of the most revealing parts of the conversation was how surprised and disappointed he was that the Golden Knights were willing to let him walk in free agency. Strickland asked about the organization's loyalty to him and Marchessault was very open in his response. "There's definitely no loyalty," he said".

Predators Forward Opens Up About Wild Offseason

The Nashville Predators had one of the best off-seasons in the NHL this summer. The additions of Steven Stamkos, Brady Skjei, and Jonathan Marchessault brings v

www.si.com

I can’t see how anyone could see how the Knights have operated since their inception and think they would have any loyalty.

 

[wmupreds]

"One of the most revealing parts of the conversation was how surprised and disappointed he was that the Golden Knights were willing to let him walk in free agency. Strickland asked about the organization's loyalty to him and Marchessault was very open in his response. "There's definitely no loyalty," he said".

Predators Forward Opens Up About Wild Offseason

The Nashville Predators had one of the best off-seasons in the NHL this summer. The additions of Steven Stamkos, Brady Skjei, and Jonathan Marchessault brings v

www.si.com

It's on him if he expected any loyalty at this point.. There are obvious draws to playing in Vegas for players but organizational loyalty is clearly not one of them.

 

[triggrman]

I can’t see how anyone could see how the Knights have operated since their inception and think they would have any loyalty.

sometimes you can't see the forest through all the trees

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's on him if he expected any loyalty at this point.. There are obvious draws to playing in Vegas for players but organizational loyalty is clearly not one of them.

Well, the full quote is:

"There's definitely no loyalty," he said. "But at the same time, it's like, you're there to win. I don't mind that mindset personally."

It doesn't really read to me like he was EXPECTING loyalty. Everybody knows how Vegas operates. He seemed to just be making an observation of fact, without "whining" about it like maybe the headlines want to spin it?

 

[Armourboy]

Seems like lines might work better if we put Evangelista on 2nd line and Marchessault on 3rd. That would allow for either Tomasino or one of the kids on 3rd line with a vet on the other wing and give Evangelista chance to shine with Stamkos on 2nd line. Not sure how centers would fit best, but my concern is if we stack vets in top 6 3rd line will get caved if we don’t go all grinder, which we don’t want to do.

Yeah well we kept thinking that was what they would do last season too. Ended up they just stacked all of the Vets on the top line and rolled with it. Brunette has already shown he doesn't give a dang about developing the younger guys, he's gonna do whatever gets him wins.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah well we kept thinking that was what they would do last season too. Ended up they just stacked all of the Vets on the top line and rolled with it. Brunette has already shown he doesn't give a dang about developing the younger guys, he's gonna do whatever gets him wins.

Anyway, once we get the Cap savings from Johansen's termination, I think we just pick up Sidney Crosby as a rental before the TDL. That fixes our top-6 nicely, we'll know who the #2C is.

 

[Armourboy]

Anyway, once we get the Cap savings from Johansen's termination, I think we just pick up Sidney Crosby as a rental before the TDL. That fixes our top-6 nicely, we'll know who the #2C is.

If Crosby leaves Pittsburgh they may have a riot.