I know you were trying to diss Tomasino, but having a 0.5 PPG player in your 4th line is pretty f***ing good, imo. Especially for a team struggling with depth scoring. At least a lot better than some of the guys we're throwing out there night in night out.
Contract hasn't been voided officially yet and there will be a grievance so no, we can't count that cap space, probably not for a while
The thing that worries me most about Tomasino is that he didn't exactly dominate offensively in Milwaukee. Well, I didn't watch the games, so maybe he was flying around out there and looking great every night, I don't really know, but I didn't get that sense from the Milwaukee observers? 18pts in 22 games is pretty good, and IIRC he tended to have more shots than most players, 67 shots in 22 games is a pretty good rate indicating offensive involvement. But then the playoffs... just 6 points in 15 games, which was 9th on the team. And the same sort of thing happened the previous season in the playoffs too, when had just 9 points in 16 games, 7th on the team.
He put up points at the fifth highest rate on the team last season. I know scoring isn’t everything but I just still can’t understand why Tomasino became the whipping boy.
Sure, but, if he's really as good as people think then he should have been getting more points against the tweeners and grinders. His performance when pushed into top 6 and PP minutes was negligible, just like his performance in the AHL playoffs. There really is a theme here if you're willing to see it.
Sadly I think this is just one of those cases where he is putting up points, but he's not doing it the " right way ". He will likely end up being another of those guys that eventually goes and plays for someone else and has a pretty solid career.
Well I'm not sure Tolvanen is that different? To me he looked good with us, looked like maybe he was deserving of more opportunity, and yet was not afforded that opportunity, waived, lost. Which to me seems like a legitimate possibility to be the same path that Tomasino ends up following?
He produced points at a higher rate than anyone except for the first line and Novak last season and produced this highest rates in the few times he got ice time with other skill players. His PP performance was underwhelming but totally in line with what the 2nd unit did generally all season. The AHL performance is the biggest knock on him for sure but I think his NHL performance has been good enough I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I am just assuming in the end it comes down to off-ice/organizational observations that us fans will never see? Statistics won't show the full story. We can only assume based on what has actually happened in terms of on-ice deployment that there is something they like about how Evangelista comports himself, vs. something they don't like correspondingly about Tomasino?
Assuming they don't like him. But I do agree that there's usually more behind the decisions we fans don't see or know aboutI am just assuming in the end it comes down to off-ice/organizational observations that us fans will never see? Statistics won't show the full story. We can only assume based on what has actually happened in terms of on-ice deployment that there is something they like about how Evangelista comports himself, vs. something they don't like correspondingly about Tomasino?
I know it's not a scientific or satisfactory answer, but past a certain point, in our darkened room, we have to start making some kinds of assumptions about why they don't seem to like Tomasino, despite numbers that might otherwise look pretty good?
I've got to say I've never really understood using appeals to authority as an argument. Should this board function as only a place to agree with the decisions the team makes? Because I don't find that particularly interesting. It also assumes that coaches are infallible and never make a poor decision.
I agree to an extent but I'm just trying to understand why fan perception seems to be significantly higher for Evangelista (and to a lesser extent Parsinnen) when compared to Tomasino. I get preferring Evangelista and even fall into that category myself but there certainly isn't much in the numbers there that suggest he should be held in such a higher regard.
Oh I agree 100%. It's just... to me, we've been down that path for 3 years now, and it hasn't gotten us any closer to an understanding?
When I watch the games, I feel like Evangelista is a tad more "energetic" in some ways. He's not really physical and has no defense either? But he does seem a bit more "bouncier" as he tries to generate offense? But end of the day, the numbers aren't that much better, especially considering utilization metrics/linemates/etc. Parssinen's attributes are even more qualitative. He is just bigger and better at shielding pucks, basically.
For the record, I didn't say coaches are infallible, I said They "possibly may have better insight".
I don't think we'll know anything about Johansen until pretty deep into the season. I certainly hope Trotz isn't factoring any cap numbers around that potential space anytime in the near future.
I agree...if you combine Arvidson and Tomasino you get an Evangelista
Yeah I mean I've pretty much given up on Tomasino being successful here and recognize the reality that Tomasino is not long for the Preds. But I also just don't understand why the sentiment here generally (and you probably don't fall in that category) is much higher on Tomasino than Evangelista.Oh I agree 100%. It's just... to me, we've been down that path for 3 years now, and it hasn't gotten us any closer to an understanding?
When I watch the games, I feel like Evangelista is a tad more "energetic" in some ways. He's not really physical and has no defense either? But he does seem a bit more "bouncier" as he tries to generate offense? But end of the day, the numbers aren't that much better, especially considering utilization metrics/linemates/etc. Parssinen's attributes are even more qualitative. He is just bigger and better at shielding pucks, basically.
End of the day, I can only assume the team sees things off-ice that we don't. I have been pushing for the last few seasons to see Tomasino utilized in higher roles. I actually really liked the energy he seemed to have in the pre-season Euro-tour when they demoted him, where other people seemed to take the management narrative of him coming to camp somehow "unprepared". That didn't fit what I saw. But as this case has dragged out, I have simply come to the conclusion that there is SOMETHING going on here that I can't see. Because I can't accept the situation based on what I do see. I've been down that path of questioning management often enough over the past 3 years, that I figure there has to be something else going on?
Or, if there isn't something else going on, ok... management is making a mistake. I saw that happen with Tolvanen. Sometimes management makes mistakes and is simply wrong. But it doesn't change things... we still have to move on and look at the next options. I'm at the point now of hoping Tomasino goes somewhere else and makes our management look dumb, a la Tolvanen. Not out of any particular love for Tomasino. I don't know him or care about him specifically. Rather just so if we have blind spots in our prospect evaluation/development approach, those are exposed and we can do a better job of fixing those problems in the future.
Fair enough. It's true coaches generally have much better insight than the peanut gallery but I don't find it a compelling argument at the micro level since you could make that statement for any decision.
Or that, the player doesn't adapt to the coaches style.
