Nashville Predators talk - The Offseason

[originalpredfan]

I was very surprised at the timing and extent of the contract that Saros received when it happened. When thinking about it I could only surmise that between Trotz and Korn a decision was reached that Saros was somehow going to become a consistent top notch goalie, and Askarov was not going to develop to their satisfaction. While I still worry about his slow starts and his weakness in covering the top part of the net, I assume Korn will be able to coach him up. If not, I imagine our new focus on offense will really have to step up. If my assumption is correct than I don't understand why they didn't immediately try to move Askarov, unless they totally misread his mindset. For the record I am not in favor of Players dictating terms to management.

 

[wmupreds]

The writing was on the wall here when the team committed to Saros for 9 years. I'm not sure anyone exactly saw it happening this fast but many of us warned about the asset management side and that signing Saros this long was it's own huge risk given aging and that it'd result in likely losing the org's #1 prospect for middling value.

Now obviously the middling value part isn't set in stone but I'd be surprised at anything else at this point given the circumstances.

 

[herzausstein]

I hope the moral we take away here is we should avoid drafting *goalies* in the first round, not Russians. Just too much risk and, unlike forwards or D, all it takes is one cemented starter and they have no path.

I personally see the moral as

"If you have a young starting goalie, you dont waste high round draft picks on goalies. Throw a couple late and mid round picks (4-7) out there until the starter hits 29 then start maybe a few 2nd/3rd round picks here and there until a new future goalie is found."

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Frascas OHL rights traded to Erie

That's a different Frasca, btw. Ours is 23 years old and bound for Atlanta ECHL. Might be his younger brother?

 

[hockey diva]

I don't blame Asksy for wanting a trade, even if he isn't ready for The Show. The way is shut here and he needs to do what is best for his career.

I still think the Saros contract is too long and will cause issues down the road. He is adequate to good at times. But he will wear down and we have nothing to replace him with.

Trotz really doesn't like Poile's picks over the last few years. He has been getting rid of them or riding them out of town. I don't agree with this approach any more than I liked Poile's "safe" way.

 

[Armourboy]

I don't blame Asksy for wanting a trade, even if he isn't ready for The Show. The way is shut here and he needs to do what is best for his career.

I still think the Saros contract is too long and will cause issues down the road. He is adequate to good at times. But he will wear down and we have nothing to replace him with.

Trotz really doesn't like Poile's picks over the last few years. He has been getting rid of them or riding them out of town. I don't agree with this approach any more than I liked Poile's "safe" way.

Wanting a trade is one thing, telling a team you won't report when you are under contract is a different story.

Askarov has done nothing to expect a job in the NHL handed to him.

Trotz has no choice, he either gets good value from another team or you suspend him if he doesn't show up. If the return isn't at least a 1st you let him bury his career in Russia.

 

[herzausstein]

I guess this will be a good test of Trotz' GM abilities. What can he turn this turd sandwhich into?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I guess this will be a good test of Trotz' GM abilities. What can he turn this turd sandwhich into?

So far, he's showed patience. The Askarov rumors have been around for a while now. He didn't bite on any possible offers at the draft. Hopefully, he's not biting off more than he can chew, but at least he didn't just grab a crappy pick and just cash it in.

 

[herzausstein]

So far, he's showed patience. The Askarov rumors have been around for a while now. He didn't bite on any possible offers at the draft. Hopefully, he's not biting off more than he can chew, but at least he didn't just grab a crappy pick and just cash it in.

You sit too long you get nothing. That will be the danger here. Granted worst comes to worst... he is suspended and plays overseas where he continues to develop.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

You sit too long you get nothing. That will be the danger here. Granted worst comes to worst... he is suspended and plays overseas where he continues to develop.

Very true. There's definitely a balance. That said, Askarov has the most at risk. It seems that he feels he's ready for the big stage and a big contract. Sitting at home while others get those rewards humble most. We'll see.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Wanting a trade is one thing, telling a team you won't report when you are under contract is a different story.

Askarov has done nothing to expect a job in the NHL handed to him.

Trotz has no choice, he either gets good value from another team or you suspend him if he doesn't show up. If the return isn't at least a 1st you let him bury his career in Russia.

Letting him bury his career in Russia is dumb. That's bad asset management

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Letting him bury his career in Russia is dumb. That's bad asset management

Or it might help show others like Svechkov and Surin and future generations that you can't hold Trotz hostage, that burying your career in Russia isn't the best bluff?

 

[Armourboy]

Letting him bury his career in Russia is dumb. That's bad asset management

If the return isn't that good then it doesn't matter. A 3rd and a crap prospect doesn't beat out the value of showing him and future players this garbage isn't going to happen. Besides, if he doesn't play this season he can't even go back to Russia.

Askarov and the agent are stupid, this is the push you make when you have an alternative, right now they have none.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If the return isn't that good then it doesn't matter. A 3rd and a crap prospect doesn't beat out the value of showing him and future players this garbage isn't going to happen. Besides, if he doesn't play this season he can't even go back to Russia.

Askarov and the agent are stupid, this is the push you make when you have an alternative, right now they have none.

This could backfire spectacularly on Askarov if Trotz wants to make an example out of him.

He's probably lucky that Trotz is a bit of a softie at heart, and will probably let him off easy. But Askarov wasn't bringing anything to the Preds' current competitiveness whatsoever, so it could very easily have resulted in Trotz just calling his bluff. I still hope that happens. But I wouldn't say I'm expecting it. I still think Trotz will end up just taking whatever the best offer that comes across his table is. Even if that's like a 2nd round pick. Alas.

 

[LeighDx59]

I'm more frustrated looking back because on was high on Nashville taking Lundell in that draft.

The situation sucks, I get both points of view on this. Its not like he's completely blocking from being the backup. they can always waive Wedgewood is Askarov outplays him, but the future beyond that is really bleak for Askarov.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Or it might help show others like Svechkov and Surin and future generations that you can't hold Trotz hostage, that burying your career in Russia isn't the best bluff?

We have a lot bigger issues if that is a genuine concern. Maybe actually playing the youngsters would help them feel like they have a place in the organization.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I'm more frustrated looking back because on was high on Nashville taking Lundell in that draft.

The situation sucks, I get both points of view on this. Its not like he's completely blocking from being the backup. they can always waive Wedgewood is Askarov outplays him, but the future beyond that is really bleak for Askarov.

Yeah the fact that the next two picks are both already well established NHLers definitely makes the situation feel way worse. As far as Askarov v Wedgewood I think it's pretty unlikely we would actually waive Wedgewood unless Askarov played significantly better than him. Different GM but reminds me a lot of the Ingram/Lankinen situation where it's nominally a competition but the decision has mostly been made. Doubly so since Askarov is waiver exempt unlike Ingram was.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah the fact that the next two picks are both already well established NHLers definitely makes the situation feel way worse. As far as Askarov v Wedgewood I think it's pretty unlikely we would actually waive Wedgewood unless Askarov played significantly better than him. Different GM but reminds me a lot of the Ingram/Lankinen situation where it's nominally a competition but the decision has mostly been made. Doubly so since Askarov is waiver exempt unlike Ingram was.

His "in" would more likely have been coming in as an injury replacement and just playing so well they couldn't send him back. Which could have happened at any time, including in training camp.

Clearly they do think he needs more work, hence the Wedgewood signing to begin with, so it would take something exceptional to change that plan. He should have just recognized himself that he still needs that work. Oh well.

 

[Kat Predator]

His "in" would more likely have been coming in as an injury replacement and just playing so well they couldn't send him back. Which could have happened at any time, including in training camp.

Clearly they do think he needs more work, hence the Wedgewood signing to begin with, so it would take something exceptional to change that plan. He should have just recognized himself that he still needs that work. Oh well.

People react to challenges in different ways. If the boss promotes the other guy, you can take it personally as a door closing forever and sulk in a corner.

Or you can take it as an opportunity to up your own game. Why were you passed over? What can you improve upon? How do you make the entire team successful? Taking the time to hone your craft, prove to everyone your abilities, and new doors will open, some of them very unexpectedly.

Everyone in the top professional sports leagues oozes talent. Pedigree and raw talent aren't determinative of greatness. If it were, draft picks would be slam dunks and never busts and they could hand out championships on opening day rather than play the games.

 

[glenngineer]

It’s funny that we can bash Asky for not winning in the AHL playoffs yet defend Saros for not winning in the NHL playoffs.

 

[101st_fan]

You don't bring Mitch Korn back into the organization if there isn't a need. Askarov is still developing and the organization clearly thinks he could use more time starting in the AHL vs backing up with the big club.

Now back to the usual comments where HF complains that players that failed to fill their expected role with the big club and don't even make the top 100 point per game scorers in the AHL are "overcooked" and somehow ready .... while simultaneously calling for them to take a 10% NHL pay cut which runs counter to the value they allegedly bring.

 

[Armourboy]

I'm more frustrated looking back because on was high on Nashville taking Lundell in that draft.

The situation sucks, I get both points of view on this. Its not like he's completely blocking from being the backup. they can always waive Wedgewood is Askarov outplays him, but the future beyond that is really bleak for Askarov.

I get it, I was ticked when Poile made that pick and even said at the time it would come back to get us.

Thing is this, if Poile had still been GM I don't think Saros gets the deal he got from Trotz. I think once he got Askarov, Poile always viewed Saros as a stop gap, not the next franchise goalie. I think if you stick Poile in this situation Saros hasn't been extended yet, and he is riding him til the end of the year.

The pick makes sense if you come at it from that angle. I think Poile viewed Askarov as the next franchise goalie, not Saros.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

You don't bring Mitch Korn back into the organization if there isn't a need. Askarov is still developing and the organization clearly thinks he could use more time starting in the AHL vs backing up with the big club.

Now back to the usual comments where HF complains that players that failed to fill their expected role with the big club and don't even make the top 100 point per game scorers in the AHL are "overcooked" and somehow ready .... while simultaneously calling for them to take a 10% NHL pay cut which runs counter to the value they allegedly bring.

Well, yeah...nobody is debating that. The point is that Askarov apparently doesn't want anything to do with Mitch Korn developing him in the AHL. Not while a starter in front of him has a fresh 8-year contract. So, the question is, now what?

 

[Armourboy]

Well, yeah...nobody is debating that. The point is that Askarov apparently doesn't want anything to do with Mitch Korn developing him in the AHL. Not while a starter in front of him has a fresh 8-year contract. So, the question is, now what?

Yet another reason Askarov is getting ahead of himself.

Trotz has already said in interviews that Korn was brought in to round out Askarov's game, to smooth out the rough edges on his fundamentals so he is ready to be a beast in the NHL.

Trotz would actually be doing him a favor because if he does those things with Korn he is going to be putting serious pressure on Saros, which then sets Askarov up to be able to be moved and guarantee he is in the NHL.

It makes it easier on Trotz to move him and also means he can tender offsheets at that point too. Right now all he has done is frustrated the organization and made it harder for him to be moved.

 

[101st_fan]

Well, yeah...nobody is debating that. The point is that Askarov apparently doesn't want anything to do with Mitch Korn developing him in the AHL. Not while a starter in front of him has a fresh 8-year contract. So, the question is, now what?

If a player isn't mentally capable of winning a job then they aren't ready to be in the NHL. The mentality Askarov is showing might be part of why he's lost the starter's net a couple of times already. If Askarov makes a case for himself on the ice he can take the NHL backup spot in camp .... if Saros hits a rough patch, Asky can get a shot the starter's net. This is a league where Bobrovsky sat as the backup at $10mil per season. But Askarov wants to make grandiose statements with no leverage.