Nashville Predators talk - The offseason.

[Viqsi]

I don't think there's that much of a gap between what guys like Parssinen/Novak/Glass/Svechkov could do if you really committed to them. It's kind of the same as the argument with "kids vs. veteran depth guys" in general. It'd be a different thing if there was a large gap in performance. But I just don't believe there is. And that's in the immediate sense. The kids are very nearly as good NOW (maybe better if they were granted some leeway to build confidence), so it's basically self-defeating to choose veteran options who don't have any upside to help improve the team.

The point of having vets amongst your kids isn't based on performance when things are going along as normal. They're vital and necessary when things go wrong.

 

[Viqsi]

FWIW I'd much rather see us trade for Necas' rights and gamble that he becomes a good 1C with increased responsibility. With a disclaimer that I have no idea what the cost would be.

The cost has been reportedly high ehough that I do not think it is safe or sane to try Necas at center like that.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The point of having vets amongst your kids isn't based on performance when things are going along as normal. They're vital and necessary when things go wrong.

Elaborate? I don't understand what you're saying. At least not in particular regards to the Preds last season.

 

[Viqsi]

Elaborate? I don't understand what you're saying. At least not in particular regards to the Preds last season.

I'm just saying not to assume that just 'cause we have those kids means that we don't need to worry about vet acquisitions. There's far too easy of a tendency for folks to want to Start The New Era ASAP and that tends to kill it before it gets off the ground. So someone like a Stephenson should be well worth considering regardless.

 

[wmupreds]

The problem with the names mentioned is that they don't seem to be realistically available? Or at least, Marner and Stamkos aren't available... Guentzel is, but it sounds like you'd have to pay him more than Josi? I mean, I like Guentzel ok, but he's not really THAT much of a "big name".

I think we have to get out of this habit of comparing contracts to Josi's or whoever. Josi signed that deal 5 years ago and we're entering an inflationary period because of the rising cap. I don't think that deal carries that much weight anymore for comparisons.

I'm not sure Guentzel is the guy- I'd rather have Marner if the right deal comes together- but you get the idea.

 

[triggrman]

I mean can he if Nyquist doesn't? Seems like one is kind of going to factor into the other. That doesn't even include if ROR doesn't repeat as well.

He scored at a 100 point pace without either Nyquist or ROR. Forsberg is the driver, always has been. He needs talent but he makes his linemates better

 

[Viqsi]

I think we have to get out of this habit of comparing contracts to Josi's or whoever. Josi signed that deal 5 years ago and we're entering an inflationary period because of the rising cap. I don't think that deal carries that much weight anymore for comparisons.

Truthfully, it never did. Josi's deal was a ludicrous sweetheart deal the day it was signed and it's only gotten even more absurd since.

 

[wmupreds]

Truthfully, it never did. Josi's deal was a ludicrous sweetheart deal the day it was signed and it's only gotten even more absurd since.

I dunno. At the time it made him the 3rd highest paid defenseman in the league and it came with some question marks given his concussion history, his reliance on skating ability, the length and NMC etc. Thankfully he's aged like fine wine and it's been a bargain to this point but I don't know that that was really predictable.

The absurd deal was his $4M/year that the Preds made out like absolute bandits on.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm just saying not to assume that just 'cause we have those kids means that we don't need to worry about vet acquisitions. There's far too easy of a tendency for folks to want to Start The New Era ASAP and that tends to kill it before it gets off the ground. So someone like a Stephenson should be well worth considering regardless.

Oh ok, you mean in terms of Stephenson. Well at least he can be conclusively agreed on by everybody as being better than all the kids we have, at the present moment in time. Possibly none of our kids atm will ever be as good as he is.

I don't pretend the kids automatically launch any New Era... it's certainly possible that relying on them would result in a disastrous season instead. But I guess the difference for me is that I'd rather take whatever slim odds might be there on them panning out, because there is at least a silver lining if they bomb. Whereas Stephenson is solid, but if he's not bringing any New Era either, there isn't too much of a silver lining with him. All you do is pay him handsomely in order to help the team tread water, basically.

 

[Viqsi]

Oh ok, you mean in terms of Stephenson. Well at least he can be conclusively agreed on by everybody as being better than all the kids we have, at the present moment in time. Possibly none of our kids atm will ever be as good as he is.

I don't pretend the kids automatically launch any New Era... it's certainly possible that relying on them would result in a disastrous season instead. But I guess the difference for me is that I'd rather take whatever slim odds might be there on them panning out, because there is at least a silver lining if they bomb. Whereas Stephenson is solid, but if he's not bringing any New Era either, there isn't too much of a silver lining with him. All you do is pay him handsomely in order to help the team tread water, basically.

I think what he (or someone similar) would be good for is allowing the team to maintain momentum and confidence even when one kid or another is having issues. Which is kind of important, because if the team ends up suffering as a result then that brings down everybody.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think what he (or someone similar) would be good for is allowing the team to maintain momentum and confidence even when one kid or another is having issues. Which is kind of important, because if the team ends up suffering as a result then that brings down everybody.

Well if I could sign a Stephenson (or equivalent) for just 1-2 years at the AAV he'll command, then I'm all in. It's if you subsequently envision paying him a #2C salary in later years when he's putting up 30 pts, then that can also bring everybody down too... and possibly at a time when it (hopefully) might matter more to the team.

Anyway, I do want the Preds to sign 2 top-4 D also... and it could be argued that is also a case of "treading water"... i.e. just backfilling for McDonagh and Carrier with Pesce + X doesn't obviously make us much better either. The difference to me is that I just don't see more top-4 D candidates in our pipeline. Molendyk is one and... Plus Josi is getting up there. I like Stastney too, not sure yet about top-4. But I just don't see enough candidates in the pipeline on D for me to think we even have decent odds of having kids stepping up into ALL of those spots. Whereas at F, at least we have a pile of them on hand.

I won't hyperventilate if Trotz signs Stephenson to that 6x$6M contract. But I will definitely look askance.

 

[Armourboy]

He scored at a 100 point pace without either Nyquist or ROR. Forsberg is the driver, always has been. He needs talent but he makes his linemates better

You remembering a year I'm not cause this is the first one he has even sniffed close to 100 points?

 

[101st_fan]

You remembering a year I'm not cause this is the first one he has even sniffed close to 100 points?

2021-22 -- Forsberg with 84 points in 69 games ... 99.8 point pace for a full 82 game season.

 

[herzausstein]

He scored at a 100 point pace without either Nyquist or ROR. Forsberg is the driver, always has been. He needs talent but he makes his linemates better

The same year Josi almost hit 100 points and Duchene got 43G 43A while Granlund managed a very similar to RoR 64 points?

Following year Josi is back below a point per game, Granlund drops off a cliff and is traded and both Duchene/Forsberg have down years resulting in duchene being bought out

 

[triggrman]

Forsberg started slow and got hurt everyone’s numbers fell because of it. Forsberg is the driver.

 

[Armourboy]

Forsberg started slow and got hurt everyone’s numbers fell because of it. Forsberg is the driver.

He still didn't have a season close to 100 points prior to this one though. His next best was 84. Forsberg may be a driver but he still needs someone to drive with.

 

[triggrman]

He still didn't have a season close to 100 points prior to this one though. His next best was 84. Forsberg may be a driver but he still needs someone to drive with.

It’s like you really want to argue. Please reread my post. Do better.

 

[101st_fan]

What we won't see for another 8-10 days or so is what Trotz has planned to address the top six and blueline in the near term ... we're not in a position to draft for this season's needs and the comments about wanting to extend Saros make it seem he will be between the pipes at least through the start of the season.

Ideally Trotz finds a way to acquire the right talent to play alongside Forsberg allowing RoR and/or Gus to slide down a line since we can't expect them to overperform yet again. Between now and the start of free agency there is a game 7, the start of the buyout period, and a draft where a trade or two might happen. Sit back and enjoy.

 

[Armourboy]

It’s like you really want to argue. Please reread my post. Do better.

Sure thing Dad, how about paying this insurance bill?

 

[beardawg]

Sure thing Dad, how about paying this insurance bill?

Are you insinuating that pacing metrics don't matter and that the NHL doesn't track them? Because both of those things are most definitely incorrect. Point-per-game stats are the cornerstone of arguments for players like Lemieux, Bossy, and Orr for being all time greats because they didn't have longevity

Edit: how many times are you going to edit your comment? Original post said no one cares above pacing and those seasons don't count if FF never actually hit those point/goal totals

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Forsberg started slow and got hurt everyone’s numbers fell because of it. Forsberg is the driver.

I don't think this was always the case, but do think he has gradually become that over the last few seasons. Pity it took him til 30. When they say power forwards take longer to fully develop, it's no joke.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Are you insinuating that pacing metrics don't matter and that the NHL doesn't track them? Because both of those things are most definitely incorrect. Point-per-game stats are the cornerstone of arguments for players like Lemieux, Bossy, and Orr for being all time greats because they didn't have longevity

Edit: how many times are you going to edit your comment? Original post said no one cares above pacing and those seasons don't count if FF never actually hit those point/goal totals

Mike Bossy had 9 50+goal seasons. Lemieux was about a 2.0 PPG player for his career. They're going to get a little bit more benefit of the doubt on pacing than a guy with 2 PPG seasons and 1 close to in 10 seasons.

 

[101st_fan]

So we can remove Egoat from the penciled lines for next season.

 

[wmupreds]

I don't think this was always the case, but do think he has gradually become that over the last few seasons. Pity it took him til 30. When they say power forwards take longer to fully develop, it's no joke.

I'm not so convinced on this.. at 23 years old Forsberg had his second best season to date in p/60. The kicker is this year he got over 100 more PP minutes and the league is higher scoring in general.

As far as who was "driving play" on the JoFA line vs. this year's top line, that's hard to suss out but I don't know that Forsberg was exactly a late bloomer. He's just never been fully consistent year to year and has had some injury issues.

So we can remove Egoat from the penciled lines for next season.

This is a bit of a head scratcher.

 

[herzausstein]

I guess they liked what they saw out of Ozzy in the AHL.... either that or they didnt plan on putting Afanaseyev into the NHL next season and figured theyd lose him on waivers.

Wish we couldve gotten Afanaseyev more NHL time. Seemed like a natural trenin replacement. Not really sure what all Ozzy brings to the table but we dont have to bring him up next season. He is another RW though... maybe a precursor to trading out Tomasino