Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season

nine_inch_fang

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Oct 8, 2004
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Wouldn't matter, because the Preds don't run the lottery. :)
That's right, Chicago does.


Has there ever been a time that Josi was out of the lineup that the team suffered or actually played worse? He wasn't even the number one Dman until, what, 2019? Just looking at that and the trajectory of this team since then maybe 2+2 will start to equal 4 for more people.

Josi isn't good for this team in his current capacity. He should not be the captain and he damn sure shouldn't be give free rein to run around the ice doing whatever the hell he likes.

Sure, I realize the team still sucks and isn't winning games but it's easier to watch.
 

Kat Predator

Registered User
Nov 28, 2019
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Wouldn't matter, because the Preds don't run the lottery. :)
The lottery is specifically designed to disincentivize trying to be the worst intentionally.

You may have to back the Titanic up into the iceberg again and again to get that 1OA.

The real benefit to being the worst intentionally or just through incompetence, whatever the case, is to be able to put in those season ticket renewals the advertising "Not Mushy Middle!"
 

101st_fan

I taught Yoda
Oct 22, 2005
14,660
6,040
Near where sand and waves meet.
Losing McDonagh hurt this team. He was one of the few players that could pair with Josi and make things work ... the stability to Josi's rover tendencies. Him asking for a trade was an indicator.


Wilsby spending over 16 minutes alongside Lauzon isn't a recipe for success. Lauzon is going to turn it over, get out of position chasing a hit or trying to be a forward, and we're then left with one defender.
 

glenngineer

Registered User
Jan 27, 2010
7,192
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Franklin, TN
Josi is the least of our problems. When I see defensemen consistently the third man skating into the zone it's a system issue. Most guys don't have the speed or offensive ability to make anything happen whereas Josi can create. Schenn leads the rush at least once a game, which should never happen. The only one who is any good at it outside of Josi is Wilsby. He'll go to the middle looking to get his shot off whereas most everyone else goes down the boards and ends up behind the net.
 

darth5

No!
Mar 28, 2002
2,612
135
Smashville, TN
I sometimes think the Preds have some curse on them with regards to the Draft. Never ever are they in position to draft a home run FORWARD pick. Legwand was the highest pick I remember, and he was not exactly fire. Internally they seem to develop equivalent 2nd/3rd line players tops. Aside from Forsberg (acquired via infamous trade), no real forward top tier picks. They have picked some late round hits. D and G is another story altogether.

We've seen the perils of Free Agency (long heavy contracts). Poile never did, but Trotz should have been pushing scouting and development REALLY HARD. That is my #1 concern. You build a team by maximizing at the draft. Someone tell me I'm wrong, please!
 
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glenngineer

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Jan 27, 2010
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I sometimes think the Preds have some curse on them with regards to the Draft. Never ever are they in position to draft a home run FORWARD pick. Legwand was the highest pick I remember, and he was not exactly fire. Internally they seem to develop equivalent 2nd/3rd line players tops. Aside from Forsberg (acquired via infamous trade), no real forward top tier picks. They have picked some late round hits. D and G is another story altogether.

We've seen the perils of Free Agency (long heavy contracts). Poile never did, but Trotz should have been pushing scouting and development REALLY HARD. That is my #1 concern. You build a team by maximizing at the draft. Someone tell me I'm wrong, please!
You build thru the draft and build a good team OR use those players to improve your team via trades. Florida had 3 drafted and developed players on their Cup winner. That's crazy to think about.
 
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Armourboy

Hey! We suck!
Jan 20, 2014
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Eh we tend to forget but we haven't been totally devoid of drafting really good forwards, it's just usually there is another decision to go with it.

Hartnell was a really good forward, but fire sale.
Arvy was pretty dang good but injuries.
Hornqvist was definitely awesome when you consider his draft spot, but traded.

Smith would be a tier down but wasn't a top pick either.
Fiala pretty good, couldn't get along with Lavi.

Truth is though we didn't exactly have a ton of forward picks early on, they spent a lot of draft capital on defensemen and our history shows that.
 

glenngineer

Registered User
Jan 27, 2010
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Eh we tend to forget but we haven't been totally devoid of drafting really good forwards, it's just usually there is another decision to go with it.

Hartnell was a really good forward, but fire sale.
Arvy was pretty dang good but injuries.
Hornqvist was definitely awesome when you consider his draft spot, but traded.

Smith would be a tier down but wasn't a top pick either.
Fiala pretty good, couldn't get along with Lavi.

Truth is though we didn't exactly have a ton of forward picks early on, they spent a lot of draft capital on defensemen and our history shows that.
Erat was the best forward we ever drafted as he was a good top 6 forward who we traded for Forsberg.
 

AtlantaWhaler

Thrash/Preds/Sabres
Jul 3, 2009
20,345
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So, I know the answer is a new coach or GM, or "everything", but aside from those, what does everyone think is our biggest need?

Defense? A Center? More youth?
 

glenngineer

Registered User
Jan 27, 2010
7,192
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Franklin, TN
So, I know the answer is a new coach or GM, or "everything", but aside from those, what does everyone think is our biggest need?

Defense? A Center? More youth?
Biggest need of every team is a 1C. You can pretty much get everything else but the 1C is the hardest to come by. Some teams even have two of them and won't share, buggers they are.
 
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Byrddog

Lifer
Nov 23, 2007
7,548
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98 team tallied 63 points for the season , currently this years team is pacing for 62 and December is not over yet.

It is impossible to believe that this roster is worse than the year one room of misfits. The coaching can be blamed for just so much. It does not appear Brunette is a NHL caliber coach but those bundles of cells on the ice have no heart no chemistry no internal give a crap. Every team has growing pains with youngsters developing in the roster but the veterans should guide them along. Not veteran guys just brought in either it's the long term Pred guys like Josi and Foreskin that have been here that are failing heck ROR has more give a damn in his short tenure. It's one thing to quit on a coach but to just quit on the team and fan base is inexcusable. At this point 33 games in it is not a slump a nagging injury bad luck or any of the excuses. It's just bad hockey the majority of every game. There are 10 minute stretches when they look competent then they realize the situation. Forget how to move the puck, forecheck like 8 year olds all rushing to the puck that's moved out and buried in their net. But they please Mason and Willie with some hits.

This is going to be a long journey to turn around. Trotz and his whole staff will eventually lose their jobs. But then who gets brought in . It's not Taylor he has his own warts. A coach like Torts is needed hold someone accountable hold anyone accountable hold them all accountable. Just playing along to get along is not going to fix this . It's a 6ft long crap sammich and there are going to be a lot of nasty bites before things improve.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
56,344
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Yes, but only the first 3 were acquired by the draft. Kulikov had bounced around league and returned.
Kulikov was a Panthers draft pick who was developed by them initially; that was the context in which the factoid was brought up.

For this team I think that would be like Fiala showing back up here as a free agent.
 

Scoresberg

Perpetual Mediocrity
May 28, 2015
10,649
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Earth
You build thru the draft and build a good team OR use those players to improve your team via trades. Florida had 3 drafted and developed players on their Cup winner. That's crazy to think about.
Vegas didn't have many players from their expansion team when they won, either.
 

nine_inch_fang

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Oct 8, 2004
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Bruno's system is "positionless hockey" which is meant to allow players to fluidly move about the zone, disrupting more traditional formations and confusing the opponents. It's a "never let them know your next move" type of unpredictability.

A big problem with it is that we don't have any team speed, so opponents caught off guard can generally recover. And the bigger issue is probably that our players seem to be just as confused as the opponents. I just don't believe it's viable, as it completely upends a lifetime of training for these guys.

There are tweaks you can make to the usual systems, like you can get a different tire size or tread pattern, but you can't re-invent the wheel.

It's not just training, but it effectively assumes (incorrectly) that everyone has the same innate talents and skills. Every player can play all the positions on a split second's lack of notice. It's an idea based on a false core assumption.

Imagine, if you will, an extreme case. A case involving all 6 positions on the ice and having everyone play in goalie gear. Your "system" is to confuse the opposition as to which goalie is the real goalie. Not only would it be ridiculous to have Connor McDavid skating around in goalie gear, you may have him stuck in net ,trying to recover from a pulled groin, while Jack Campbell slowly leads the rush toward the neutral zone, trying to carry the puck on his goalie stick around a Victor Hedman.

Chaos isn't a system.

Chaos is the transition and offensive zone systems.

Dzone is actually very standard, like what they're taught in mites. This works wonderfully until everyone flies the zone as soon as a teammate possesses the puck.

The forecheck is basically the same thing Hynes was using. A man on man coverage to eliminate passing options allowing the F1 and F2 to overwhelm the puck carrier and create turnovers.
Moving this here for more discussion outside of the GDT the topic would get buried in.

To add to this a little bit. I don't think the offensive zone is actually supposed to be chaotic.

Between not being able to attend games this year and the horrible isolated camera angles during play it can be hard to pick up on tendencies and patterns unless you really take time rewinding and replaying the games. But, there seems to be very specific circumstances and cues that the coaches expect to initiate "plays" or player rotations.

These are the types of things that can create confusion and missed assignments within the structure leading to a loss of possession without any scoring chances, at best, or defensive breakdowns causing odd man rushes, at worst. But, when they work and everyone is reading the same play (and able to execute physically) openings can be created and exploited.

This approach, if micromanaged from the bench, can stifle what has historically been the source of offense in hockey. Creativity and imagination. Trying to make a Michael McCarron just as dangerous offensively with some scheme is the same thing that can make perennial 40 goal scorers look like they have no clue what to do with a puck during a hockey game.
 

Kat Predator

Registered User
Nov 28, 2019
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I don't want Bruno in Milwaukee. I don't think he will be a good fit because I don't think he is a good enough coach. He will be very bad for the younger players!

Bruno's offense stinks. In soccer, it would be called the Dutch Twirl. You need 7 players that can shift between being forwards and midfielders. The Preds don't have the players to do that. They don't have enough team speed to rapidly switch. They can't even sort out their defense pairs!
You kind of allude to it, but it's worth stressing that even in soccer, they're not trying to interchange everyone. You don't have defenders interchanging with the striker, but you might have a midfielder ran past a forward going up the field. There are more than twice as many players on a much bigger playing area. So not having rigid positioning can help get the attack going and considering the distances being run, there is a bit more time for players to make those decisions and react to who's running all out and who's gassed.

In the NHL, one bad decision and the puck is going back the other way and in the back of your net.

[moved from other thread]
 

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