Confirmed with Link: Nashville Predators buying out Matt Duchene

[Byrddog]

Absolutely shocked- I will be VERY interested to hear Trotz comment on this and what the thinking is.

One thought I immediately have- if we are really going the burn it to the ground mode, why keep Saros???

Oh it’s no doubt they’re burning it to the ground . At this point the few left have to be questioning if they want to stay here. Mainly Josi who has the NMC he knows his time will be up before the team is competitive again. Trotz could actually get a couple studs for Josi. Saros is probably next in the trade block. And Fabbro is questionable he could be in his prime when the team matures. This rebuild is a couple years past due when it could have been done without scorching the earth. Trotz is following the Yzerman method I just hope the scouting can be better.


Look at room to the cap is clearly not what’s going on it’s looking to the floor. Their retained cap or the buyout become a positive. Phoenix has been doing this for a while. Things should be more clear starting tomorrow. Looks like Trotz is looking for a clean slate. Even now he has the opportunity to sign any player that becomes available. When he gets done with his subtraction he will start on addition.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I mean, the Avs kicked him out the door to take Johansen instead. What does that tell us????

Colorado isn't a rebuilding team and they have confidence in their established leadership group (Mackinnon sounds intense and a guy I'd hate to play with, incidentally, winning or not). Alternatively, they don't have an inkling there may be character issues on Johansen. Or...they're willing to take a chance and waive him, etc... if he actually is an issue.

 

[PredsV82]

Eating this buyout cost only to turn around and get Debrincat seems a bit odd to me. I get the age difference and maybe Trotz sees him as a more long term option but otherwise it seems like a lot of $ for a marginal upgrade

The upgrade is apparently the removal of a perceived negative influence (Duchene) on the youth.

Make no mistake, Joey and Duchene being cast off are bodies in the street. This is a clear message as to what the Predator Way is going forward.

No on Compher, and Debrincat is not gonna want to come here.

We are on his list, apparently. Whether that has changed in the last few days, I dunno

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah, but you are giving Kyle Turris icetime in place of one of Glass/Parssinen/Novak (eventually Svechkov) in that timeframe if you go that route.

I don't see the point in that.

Sure you may be but you have no clue if all 3 of those are going to make it at Center for more than a short stretch. A guy like Compher, unlike Turris, is a character guy that is going to also work to shelter those guys. We have plenty of cap, we have plenty of room to toss one of those guys on a wing if needed. If Trotz thinks we need a guy like that I'm going to trust right now that he knows why more so than any of us do.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Sure you may be but you have no clue if all 3 of those are going to make it at Center for more than a short stretch. A guy like Compher, unlike Turris, is a character guy that is going to also work to shelter those guys. We have plenty of cap, we have plenty of room to toss one of those guys on a wing if needed. If Trotz thinks we need a guy like that I'm going to trust right now that he knows why more so than any of us do.

Is Compher a "character guy"? I have never heard that before.

It's tempting to want to just blindly trust Trotz... but... we all have our foibles, don't we? I'm not signing up for blind trust, sorry.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Sure you may be but you have no clue if all 3 of those are going to make it at Center for more than a short stretch. A guy like Compher, unlike Turris, is a character guy that is going to also work to shelter those guys. We have plenty of cap, we have plenty of room to toss one of those guys on a wing if needed. If Trotz thinks we need a guy like that I'm going to trust right now that he knows why more so than any of us do.

And people will look at it and the price and "hurr durr, JT Compher 1st line center," but the reality is he'll be brought in to be an overpaid 3rd line center (Sissons the 4th) with a little offensive upside and allow whatever combo of Parsnips, Novak, Glass to focus on the offensive end (I would guess Glass/Parnsip with Novak on a wing, but we'll see).

 

[Kat Predator]

Colorado isn't a rebuilding team and they have confidence in their established leadership group (Mackinnon sounds intense and a guy I'd hate to play with, incidentally, winning or not). Alternatively, they don't have an inkling there may be character issues on Johansen. Or...they're willing to take a chance and waive him, etc... if he actually is an issue.

I wouldn't call it character issues. He might have been complacent. Might not have been working as hard as he could have. May have checked out of the program and taken some shifts off. He's had injuries.

But in going to Colorado, he's not "the man". Absolutely no one thinks he's the leader. He's just going to be a $4M run-of-the-mill guy. He's coming into a stable system, winning environment, led by a laser focused generational talent who is all consumed with winning. Actually two of those guys. He doesn't have to try to figure out how he can be that sort of guy in Colorado.

It's time to put the big boy pants on and go to work. Being a sleepwalking passenger isn't going to go over well. On the other hand, if he can bring 35-40 points to the table, which is very do-able for him, play his role, buy in and commit, everyone is going to be mutually happy. If he can kick it back into a 50-60 point gear, Avs fans will be happy to have stolen him.

 

[Armourboy]

Is Compher a "character guy"? I have never heard that before.

It's tempting to want to just blindly trust Trotz... but... we all have our foibles, don't we? I'm not signing up for blind trust, sorry.

You don't have much choice one way or the other so might as well ride along until we see what the deal is. All you have is rumors, no reason to be worked up over that. In the long run Compher isn't going to matter.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You don't have much choice one way or the other so might as well ride along until we see what the deal is. All you have is rumors, no reason to be worked up over that. In the long run Compher isn't going to matter.

I don't even know him as a player, so there is zero chance I'm going to get "worked up" even if the Preds sign him. I'm going to need to see who he is on the ice.

Just, I've never come across any indication that he is worthy of notice either... and I watch a bit of hockey. So, I'll start off posting here no doubt seeming to be be "worked up" if we sign him to something outrageous like 3x$5M. But in reality, I'm just chilling with my newfound home-craft brews (JD+cheapest crap mix - it works for me!), and it doesn't really matter to me one bit who we signed.

In the long run, Compher to me represents a sign of distrust and unwillingness to roll the dice with Glass/Parssinen/Novak. And that just feels a little hypocritical to me, given all that Trotz has done so far to clear the decks.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Hot take but why not shop Josi? no movement clause yes but he is one concussion away from his career being over. Duchene was a productive winger for us. He’s going to be one of the most sought after free agents now honestly. What does that say about the move?

id be all for it

 

[Armourboy]

I don't even know him as a player, so there is zero chance I'm going to get "worked up" even if the Preds sign him. I'm going to need to see who he is on the ice.

Just, I've never come across any indication that he is worthy of notice either... and I watch a bit of hockey. So, I'll start off posting here no doubt seeming to be be "worked up" if we sign him to something outrageous like 3x$5M. But in reality, I'm just chilling with my newfound home-craft brews (JD+cheapest crap mix - it works for me!), and it doesn't really matter to me one bit who we signed.

In the long run, Compher to me represents a sign of distrust and unwillingness to roll the dice with Glass/Parssinen/Novak. And that just feels a little hypocritical to me, given all that Trotz has done so far to clear the decks.

So you don't know a thing about him but yet you want to crap on the idea of bringing him in? Boy that makes sense. We are going to need another center somewhere that can play more than the 4th line, the odds these guys make it through a full season without an injury is a serious roll of the dice and you aren't exactly overflowing with center talent in Milwaukee.

Whether its him or someone else they are probably going to be bringing in another center that actually has some decent experience.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So you don't know a thing about him but yet you want to crap on the idea of bringing him in?

Aside from watching him play around 30 games and never really noticing him stand out in any significant way, and reading all his statistics that don't stand out in any significant way, and never reading any scouting reports or praise for him that stands out in any significant way... yes... I don't know a thing about him!

Boy that makes sense. We are going to need another center somewhere that can play more than the 4th line, the odds these guys make it through a full season without an injury is a serious roll of the dice and you aren't exactly overflowing with center talent in Milwaukee.

Well, we have 6 centers now, afaic. The top-3 "hopefuls" of Parssinen/Glass/Novak, then the "Elite 4C" in Sissons, and then filler already in McCarron and Jankowski. If somebody gets injured or fails out, Sissons has been a solid #3C already, you can revert to a trad Top-6/Bottom-6 instead of Top-9/Checkers format. I just don't see what Compher offers that we don't already have.

Now, if he was 1yr x $2M, that's a different story. Then he's just "in the mix" as a backup plan or gap-filler and doesn't represent the same commitment or roadblock. But you are saying 3yr x $5M and it's really that level of commitment that I'm more strenuously objecting to. (Inasmuch as anything posted here could ever be construed as "strenuous"! )

 

[Armourboy]

Aside from watching him play around 30 games and never really noticing him stand out in any significant way, and reading all his statistics that don't stand out in any significant way, and never reading any scouting reports or praise for him that stands out in any significant way... yes... I don't know a thing about him!



Well, we have 6 centers now, afaic. The top-3 "hopefuls" of Parssinen/Glass/Novak, then the "Elite 4C" in Sissons, and then filler already in McCarron and Jankowski. If somebody gets injured or fails out, Sissons has been a solid #3C already, you can revert to a trad Top-6/Bottom-6 instead of Top-9/Checkers format. I just don't see what Compher offers that we don't already have.

Now, if he was 1yr x $2M, that's a different story. Then he's just "in the mix" as a backup plan or gap-filler and doesn't represent the same commitment or roadblock. But you are saying 3yr x $5M and it's really that level of commitment that I'm more strenuously objecting to. (Inasmuch as anything posted here could ever be construed as "strenuous"! )

Frankly I'd be far happier keeping McCarron and Jankowski on the bench or Milwaukee where they belong.

The money I could care less about, cap space isn't going to be even remotely a concern for this team for several years.

Frankly this team isn't going to be much of anything but a training ground for several years so I don't really care who the sign as long as they keep it under 3 years or less.

 

[Gh24]

With the likes of Nelson or Compher you get veteran presence on the roster. Him and Sissons on bottom 6 roles and kids (Glass, Parssinen) on top 6 roles, I don't see a problem. This assumes the suggested Novak to wing transition.

Forsberg - Parssinen - Novak
x - Glass - Tomasino

Fill x with one of the kids, Duclair, DeBrincat or whoever. Maybe if it ends up being DeBrincat put him with Parssinen if you want to get a bigger body on 2nd line as well. This is just throwing out players on positions, so don't look too much into it.

Trenin - y - Evangelista
Sherwood - Sissons - Smith

Fill y with Nelson/Compher etc. Rotate kids into the lineup based on camp and their play in Ads.

If Trotz wants that veteran presence there it might have to be a 3 year deal. Ideally a shorter contract would work better for US, but these guys can get job stability somewhere else, so you need to pay them to be here. If he thinks our current veterans fill that need then fine, I don't care one way or another. I'm just saying I too understand the reasoning.

Touching on what @nine_inch_fang said, seeing other players, especially the more highly regarded ones, working their asses off (practise, off ice included) is contagious. You see that those guys aren't slacking off either and they're pretty damn good already, so I need to step my game up. Same goes for executing the coach's game plan. Players and coaches don't always see the game the same way and if as a player you feel like you're not being utilized correctly / your strengths are being wasted it can cause some tension. It's a tough situation when you have a star player (or someone who takes their position as granted) who wants to play the game his way and a coach who tries to implement his strategy not aligning. Being able to communicate these things between players and coaches is essential in building a tight group of players who has each other's back and can jump up and down the lineup knowing what everyone is supposed to do every time they touch the ice. This is something I believe Tolvanen meant when he said he sometimes didn't have a clue what was expected of him. I have absolutely no idea if it's more about some sort of chaos in executing the game plan and individual preferences (aka all players not buying into the strategy), poor leadership or just poor communication between all parties, but that's always a bad look.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Touching on what @nine_inch_fang said, seeing other players, especially the more highly regarded ones, working their asses off (practise, off ice included) is contagious. You see that those guys aren't slacking off either and they're pretty damn good already, so I need to step my game up. Same goes for executing the coach's game plan. Players and coaches don't always see the game the same way and if as a player you feel like you're not being utilized correctly / your strengths are being wasted it can cause some tension. It's a tough situation when you have a star player (or someone who takes their position as granted) who wants to play the game his way and a coach who tries to impletment his strategy not aligning. Being able to communicate these things between players and coaches is essential in building a tight group of players who has each other's back and can jump up and down the lineup knowing what everyone is supposed to do every time they touch the ice. This is something I believe Tolvanen meant when he said he sometimes didn't have a clue what was expected of him. I have absolutely no idea if it's more about some sort of chaos in executing the game plan and individual preferences (aka all players not buying into the strategy), poor leadership or just poor communication between all parties, but that's always a bad look.

Agreed, I think "dysfunctional" is probably what Trotz saw behind the scenes and enough blame to go around for both players and coach.

 

[Kat Predator]

With the likes of Nelson or Compher you get veteran presence on the roster. Him and Sissons on bottom 6 roles and kids (Glass, Parssinen) on top 6 roles, I don't see a problem. This assumes the suggested Novak to wing transition.

Forsberg - Parssinen - Novak
x - Glass - Tomasino

Fill x with one of the kids, Duclair, DeBrincat or whoever. Maybe if it ends up being DeBrincat put him with Parssinen if you want to get a bigger body on 2nd line as well. This is just throwing out players on positions, so don't look too much into it.

Trenin - y - Evangelista
Sherwood - Sissons - Smith

Fill y with Nelson/Compher etc. Rotate kids into the lineup based on camp and their play in Ads.

If Trotz wants that veteran presence there it might have to be a 3 year deal. Ideally a shorter contract would work better for US, but these guys can get job stability somewhere else, so you need to pay them to be here. If he thinks our current veterans fill that need then fine, I don't care one way or another. I'm just saying I too understand the reasoning.

Touching on what @nine_inch_fang said, seeing other players, especially the more highly regarded ones, working their asses off (practise, off ice included) is contagious. You see that those guys aren't slacking off either and they're pretty damn good already, so I need to step my game up. Same goes for executing the coach's game plan. Players and coaches don't always see the game the same way and if as a player you feel like you're not being utilized correctly / your strengths are being wasted it can cause some tension. It's a tough situation when you have a star player (or someone who takes their position as granted) who wants to play the game his way and a coach who tries to implement his strategy not aligning. Being able to communicate these things between players and coaches is essential in building a tight group of players who has each other's back and can jump up and down the lineup knowing what everyone is supposed to do every time they touch the ice. This is something I believe Tolvanen meant when he said he sometimes didn't have a clue what was expected of him. I have absolutely no idea if it's more about some sort of chaos in executing the game plan and individual preferences (aka all players not buying into the strategy), poor leadership or just poor communication between all parties, but that's always a bad look.

From the fluctuations and inconsistencies, it could be surmised that there was some dysfunction across the team as a whole. Coaches and players were not on the same page. Many of us were calling for the firing of Hynes. That was inevitable, whether you really loved the Xs and Os he preached or not. Even if the dysfunction was dismissed as "regular hockey stuff", the inconsistency was a killer. We weren't advancing as a team.

Square peg and round hole situations happen all the time. Those situations just aren't normally under a public microscope like they are in professional sports. Individuals do know what they like to do. Contributors and managers that have achieved the highest positions in their trade generally have a good idea of what they are good at and what they need help with. That is true of NHL coaches and players as well. That said, "good communication" isn't necessarily enough. "We all know you're a square peg, but we all hope you can fit in this round hole" can be preached up and down the communications ladder until everyone is blue in the face. But that doesn't address the root cause of the dysfunction. Round pegs go with round holes and square pegs with square holes. It is the teams that figure that out that have everyone rowing in the same direction more often than not and more consistently than dumb luck odds.

PS: I won't be surprised if the changes in scenery help some of our ex-coaches and ex-players. Nor will it be surprising if some of them land in spots where they continue to struggle to find that consistency. As the ultimate team sport, an individual's success is so wired into everyone else around him/her, so wired into the team's gestalt, that it becomes all about finding the niche roles that accentuate the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of the cogs in the machine, while drawing balance across the team as a whole to make the machine maximally efficient.

 

[glenngineer]

It's very important. That is what "buy in" is all about. As players go over the boards it's up to them whether they'll perform within the team structure that has been laid out by the coaches, it's up to them to execute the plan.

It's obvious now the Trotz didn't think Hynes could communicate that message and get the players to follow his lead. And, that there were also players that were standing in the way of team cohesion.

He brought in a coach that he believes can communicate effectively with the players and he's jettisoned any player that he saw as an obstacle to the team/player mindset he's looking for.

This is spot on. Great post.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Agreed, I think "dysfunctional" is probably what Trotz saw behind the scenes and enough blame to go around for both players and coach.

And as much as we all got misty-eyed at the Poile exit stuff this past week, I think you have to ultimately trace all of that dysfunctionality back upstairs. Because at the end of the day, Poile was just "too nice". He was too willing to be forgiving. To give second and third chances. To be understanding. To believe that because they were all a "family", eventually they'd all come to the right conclusions on their own - where "they" encompasses players and coaches both.

So unfortunately, for all that made him a wonderful man, it also let that culture of complacency and lack of accountability creep in.

And Trotz brought a truckload of dynamite in with him to reset that more than anything else. If you want to talk about "blowing it up", it's not the caliber of the roster overall or the place in the standings he's trying to blow up. It's the overall environment of complacency and lack of accountability that snuck in under Poile's magnanimous tenure.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

And as much as we all got misty-eyed at the Poile exit stuff this past week, I think you have to ultimately trace all of that dysfunctionality back upstairs. Because at the end of the day, Poile was just "too nice". He was too willing to be forgiving. To give second and third chances. To be understanding. To believe that because they were all a "family", eventually they'd all come to the right conclusions on their own - where "they" encompasses players and coaches both.

So unfortunately, for all that made him a wonderful man, it also let that culture of complacency and lack of accountability creep in.

And Trotz brought a truckload of dynamite in with him to reset that more than anything else. If you want to talk about "blowing it up", it's not the caliber of the roster overall or the place in the standings he's trying to blow up. It's the overall environment of complacency and lack of accountability that snuck in under Poile's magnanimous tenure.

Completely agree. I think causal fans will be frustrated seeing big names out and only a few vets brought back in. There will be a large group that misses what Trotz is prioritizing in his early tenure.

 

[PredsV82]

I'm as big a Poile fan as anyone but the teams current situation can pretty much be traced back to Poile listening to "the core" and not making significant changes after the playoff flameout against the Jets the year we won the Presidents Trophy.

 

[Kat Predator]

And as much as we all got misty-eyed at the Poile exit stuff this past week, I think you have to ultimately trace all of that dysfunctionality back upstairs. Because at the end of the day, Poile was just "too nice". He was too willing to be forgiving. To give second and third chances. To be understanding. To believe that because they were all a "family", eventually they'd all come to the right conclusions on their own - where "they" encompasses players and coaches both.

So unfortunately, for all that made him a wonderful man, it also let that culture of complacency and lack of accountability creep in.

And Trotz brought a truckload of dynamite in with him to reset that more than anything else. If you want to talk about "blowing it up", it's not the caliber of the roster overall or the place in the standings he's trying to blow up. It's the overall environment of complacency and lack of accountability that snuck in under Poile's magnanimous tenure.

Honestly, you could take it one step further and blame the people at the true top: ownership. Poile has even publicly stated that making the Predators a viable hockey market in Tennessee was really more the mission he was given than winning the Cup. He was really, really good at that TBH. He made the organization fun both inside and out. He made it an experience and something different that could co-exist with the country music scene. That's no small feat. He deserves to be lauded for that.

Contrast those statements with the Vegas owner. He said day 1, "we're going to win the Cup in the next 6 seasons." He set a clear and unambiguous expectation. They took big risks. Were unconventional. But they pulled it off.

 

[glenngineer]

Honestly, you could take it one step further and blame the people at the true top: ownership. Poile has even publicly stated that making the Predators a viable hockey market in Tennessee was really more the mission he was given than winning the Cup. He was really, really good at that TBH. He made the organization fun both inside and out. He made it an experience and something different that could co-exist with the country music scene. That's no small feat. He deserves to be lauded for that.

Contrast those statements with the Vegas owner. He said day 1, "we're going to win the Cup in the next 6 seasons." He set a clear and unambiguous expectation. They took big risks. Were unconventional. But they pulled it off.

You could take it one step further and say Poile and the ownership group got the fan base to buy into making the playoffs was good enough and then see what happens from there. That’s not how championships are won.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Honestly, you could take it one step further and blame the people at the true top: ownership. Poile has even publicly stated that making the Predators a viable hockey market in Tennessee was really more the mission he was given than winning the Cup. He was really, really good at that TBH. He made the organization fun both inside and out. He made it an experience and something different that could co-exist with the country music scene. That's no small feat. He deserves to be lauded for that.

Contrast those statements with the Vegas owner. He said day 1, "we're going to win the Cup in the next 6 seasons." He set a clear and unambiguous expectation. They took big risks. Were unconventional. But they pulled it off.

There is that. So we could say "Mission Accomplished" for Poile, and not really need to make it a "blame" game in any direction. It was just a fairly natural progression. Which was ultimately "successful" overall. And now that we've reached the point we've reached, the things Trotz is going to bring in next are just a logical next step.

 

[token grinder]

Good to hear from you bro! (Holy shit it's been two years )


And speaking of Russians, how old is Alex now??

Lol, yeah I lurk here and there. Alex is entering his junior year and is a tank on the ice. He will probably, if things continue to trend play D1 hockey in college. He could play ACHA now.

So in short, he is doing good. And Baby sister also plays Jr. Preds and probably meaner player, lol.

 

[PredsV82]

Lol, yeah I lurk here and there. Alex is entering his junior year and is a tank on the ice. He will probably, if things continue to trend play D1 hockey in college. He could play ACHA now.

So in short, he is doing good. And Baby sister also plays Jr. Preds and probably meaner player, lol.

Outstanding. Can't believe it's been that long.