My greater theory about Kent Hughes & 'CULTURE'

[MonkeyBusiness]

I love fights. Especially when we're on the winning end.

Each his own.

Fair enough. I'm not against fights at all. They just don't rouse me as much as watching skilled hockey plays do. But Xhekaj is a hell of a fighter and an entertaining one, for sure. But for me an exciting player on D would be a Dahlin or Heiskanen type, personally.

 

[Tripledeke333]

I was talking about the first post on this topic with Bobrov saying Michkov is not comaptible with some kind of "culture" HuGo are building.
Nobody knows what kind of culture is that.

A good coach/team leadership, should be able to DEVELOP character/culture. Do they really expect us to believe that there are so many unknowns about Mitchkov and no one knows anything about him, except that at 18 years old he is such an irredeemable entitled toxic cancer that any team he is on has no shot at a Cup?!?!

That “culture” statement by HuGo is just compete BS so people are less critical of his decisions, and so team management can relish in their own hubris.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Fair enough. I'm not against fights at all. They just don't rouse me as much as watching skilled hockey plays do. But Xhekaj is a hell of a fighter and an entertaining one, for sure. But for me an exciting player on D would be a Dahlin or Heiskanen type, personally.

I am still traumatized by the humiliations suffered at the hands of the Bruins in the 2000s, because we didn't have enough fighters to respond to their abuse.

Nothing I want more than Xhekaj destroying a couple of Bruins in the next few years.

 

[BLONG7]

My sentiment exactly. And it's been 30 years they've been awful at finding offense.

Since 1993 when they picked Koivu, we drafted the following forwards of note:

Ribeiro, Ryder, Plekanec, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Caufield, Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk, Higgins.

Even if you go back to 1988, you add Conroy (whom we didn't keep), Savage, V. Bure, Koivu and Tucker.

That's 35 years of drafting. That's really awful.

Habs have struggled so badly at drafting...............and many GM's share that responisibility.

Will say it again, really disappointed about not getting the forward we wanted, but the best D in the draft is now ours. The more research, and reading I do on this kid, he is a huge pick also.
Just not the sexy pick.
One more year of development, and he is very likely to play in Montreal.

 

[BLONG7]

A good coach/team leadership, should be able to DEVELOP character/culture. Do they really expect us to believe that there are so many unknowns about Mitchkov and no one knows anything about him, except that at 18 years old he is such an irredeemable entitled toxic cancer that any team he is on has no shot at a Cup?!?!

That “culture” statement by HuGo is just compete BS so people are less critical of his decisions, and so team management can relish in their own hubris.

A good coach/team leadership, should be able to DEVELOP character/culture. Do they really expect us to believe that there are so many unknowns about Mitchkov and no one knows anything about him, except that at 18 years old he is such an irredeemable entitled toxic cancer that any team he is on has no shot at a Cup?!?!

That “culture” statement by HuGo is just compete BS so people are less critical of his decisions, and so team management can relish in their own hubris.

You make good points.................That said, what about our inside info coming from Bobrov? Playing deveils advocate here, does he have inside info on the kid from Russia?
Only time will tell what we have, and what Philly has.

I am looking at HuGo to build what we saw in TB with their crazy good drafting....can they?

 

[cave troll]

A good coach/team leadership, should be able to DEVELOP character/culture. Do they really expect us to believe that there are so many unknowns about Mitchkov and no one knows anything about him, except that at 18 years old he is such an irredeemable entitled toxic cancer that any team he is on has no shot at a Cup?!?!

That “culture” statement by HuGo is just compete BS so people are less critical of his decisions, and so team management can relish in their own hubris.

I live in Europe so I watch plenty of KHL games. Michkov kid is a real deal. By real deal I mean that this kid is way above Kaprizov when he as a kid playing in Novokuznetsk. I'm pretty sure he'd be way above PPG in SKA as 18 yrs old if he plays next year there.
I understand why Top 4 teams picked 4 top centers ahead of him, but the reason why we and Yotes skipped him is this: this kid doesn't fit into losing mentality teams and there can be trouble with him in teams that planned being bottom feeders for years to come. That's why we and Yotes didn't draft him.
It's the losing culture he doesn't fit in. They deemed Reinbacher a better fit for a bottom feeder.

 

[yianik]

I think Reinbacher is a high upside player, but I agree with your point here.

Whatever criteria we were using to decide Poehling and Juulsen were BPA was wrong. Scouts know these guys don't have tremendous upside, so the reason they take these players is a perceived higher certainty of making the NHL. But I think they overestimate that certainty by a lot.

Ultimately I don't think you can really say who will make it and who will not. I think you can more accurately assess what potential they have if they make it. No one should be surprised that Cole is the goal scorer that he is. But no one knew for certain that he would become that player. That's how the Turcottes of the world end up getting selected ahead of the Caufields.

Well that's one of the odd things. The so called safe picks don't actually pan out. If you caught last years Habs draft war room, Gorton actually nailed it by lecturing the scouts about selecting guys who were "role" players in their leagues thinking they would be the role players of the NHL. He said they won't, the best role players in the NHL actually could produce in junior etc.

And agreed, upside easier to judge than chances

 

[yianik]

I do agree and cheered the Caufield pick live like crazy, but drafting at 15OA versus 25OA is easier.

Still, I don't think Hughes would have drafted Poehling at his spot. I openly called for Jason Robertson, 42 goals as a 17 year old.

Great example. And safe picks like Poehling, even if they make it , don't move the needle. Ten or a hundred Poehlings do not equal one Robertson.

 

[UED]

So DR project as a top pairing guy but Michkov only project as a "potential 80 pts winger"?

You're too dishonest to debate with, and it's time-consuming to unpack your false equivalencies, so I do not wish to continue this discussion with you.

Have a nice day.

if Reinbacher becomes as good as players like Pietrangelo, Doughty, Keith, McAvoy etc. that's better than an elite winger. If he becomes as good as Lindholm, Slavin, Parayko, McDonagh etc that's better than someone like Tarasenko, Pacioretty, Guentzel etc. At 5th overall as by far the best dman of the draft on draft day you expect the elite #1 and if he does become that then he's the 2nd best player of the draft so it's the pick with the most potential. Every time we picked top 5 since Price that draft's equivalent of Reinbacher ended up being BPA(Dobson(arguably Brady Tkachuk), both Jiricek and Nemec, Lindholm). I generally believe in picking the two-way dman every time with a top 5 pick because when the generational players(Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin and Bedard) aren't winning, elite two way dmen are the ones who win every cup. Pietrangelo has 2, Doughty has 2, Keith has 3, Hedman has 2.

I don't know how people watched Weber, Danault and Edmundson shut down everyone in 2021 and carry the worst team in the NHL(look where we finished without them the next year) to the finals while the Leafs with their 5 PPG forwards just finally made it to round 2 for the first time and still believe offense > defense. In my opinion you don't even need offense. The Blues, Bruins and Kings didn't have much offense. The Golden Knights don't have any offensive superstar. Offensive stars just get shut down anyway by the other team's defense once the conference finals start. Caufield is enough offense to win the cup. We need a Selke caliber C and an elite #1D.

 

[Tripledeke333]

You make good points.................That said, what about our inside info coming from Bobrov? Playing deveils advocate here, does he have inside info on the kid from Russia?
Only time will tell what we have, and what Philly has.

I am looking at HuGo to build what we saw in TB with their crazy good drafting....can they?

IMO the decision to pass on Mitchkov should be based on his game tape. If it was based on that I would accept it and forgive it (even if Mitchkov ends up being way better), because I would agree with management’s process.

Even if Bobrov had inside information about a character flaw, I still would go with Mitchkov. Even the highest character players have flaws. Carey Price is one of the best playoff performers and respected players in the league and he suffered from substance abuse issues. Imagine if a prospect had the same issues and I guarantee many would write him off as having “character issues”.

It is almost impossible to judge character of young kids and how that will translate into NHL performance. Further, even if it can be assessed, good coaches should build character/culture. In the 18 years of his life, Mitchkov learned to be one of the best players of his age in the world. That takes dedication/character! If Mitchkov has any character flaws, I believe a good coach can “build him up”.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Great example. And safe picks like Poehling, even if they make it , don't move the needle. Ten or a hundred Poehlings do not equal one Robertson.

By the way, how was Poehling a safe pick? What was safe about him? He's bouncing from team to team, did not get a QO, what's so safe about that? Danault, that was a safe pick for Chicago at 26OA, but Poehling?

 

[Lshap]

Reminds me of the last GM.

Bergevin didn't acquire a single 1st-round pick in a decade. Not one. Nor did he ever pull off a fancy bank shot like Romanov for 13th OA for Dach, let alone that 1st-round pick we're acquiring somewhere in the multiverse in the next three years. It's clear Hughes has a very different style than the previous guy, although I don't have a clue if it'll translate into different results.

 

[BaseballCoach]

IMO the decision to pass on Mitchkov should be based on his game tape. If it was based on that I would accept it and forgive it (even if Mitchkov ends up being way better), because I would agree with management’s process.

Even if Bobrov had inside information about a character flaw, I still would go with Mitchkov. Even the highest character players have flaws. Carey Price is one of the best playoff performers and respected players in the league and he suffered from substance abuse issues. Imagine if a prospect had the same issues and I guarantee many would write him off as having “character issues”.

It is almost impossible to judge character of young kids and how that will translate into NHL performance. Further, even if it can be assessed, good coaches should build character/culture. In the 18 years of his life, Mitchkov learned to be one of the best players of his age in the world. That takes dedication/character! If Mitchkov has any character flaws, I believe a good coach can “build him up”.

The game tape show a highly talented winger with a bit of a speed issue and a small frame. The top Cs and Ds with speed and size have an edge over him. And lo and behold, that is what happened at the draft table.

It's not that complicated.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Reminds me of the last GM.

I don't see it. The last GM does not pull off the Dach, Matheson and Monahan trades. Notice all three were for first round talent. Even taking a chance on Gurianov was an upside-looking move.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Plenty of players produce in lower levels and do not produce in the NHL. Joshua Roy was picked in the 5th round for a reason. He is not comparable to Michkov (who is irrelevant to this conversation). I wish him well and hope he succeeds but it isn't as if every high-scoring player from the Q makes it in the NHL, in fact it is increasingly less likely that Q forwards amount to much in the NHL level. I haven't seen much of Roy beyond highlight packages every year but the magic he pulls off against Q defences is not easily translated to the NHL, let's put it that way.

Hopefully he makes me eat my words.

Joshua Roy did not just produce in the Q. He shone at two WJCs, and was praised by both Bedard and Fantilli in addition to the coaches. He understands the game and is way better defensively than fans give him credit for. His real world coaches put him out there in tough situations, including the WJC key moments.

Roy has a good shot if he keeps working well.

Yes, he went in the 5th round, but if he was 10 days younger, he would have gone in the first round the following year.

 

[Rapala]

This might be a stretch - and it could be the biggest cope I have ever typed in my entire life because we just passed on a potentially generational goal scorer to reach for a defenseman - BUT - hear me out.

With Bergevin, it was all about the CHaracter. With Hughes - it's CULTURE.

Inspired by wherein which Bobrov uses a specific word quite a few times - CULTURE.

Dach, Newhook, Slafkovsky, Beck and now seemingly Reinbacher (henceforth referred to as Dr/The Doctor) - all of these guys were acquired by Hughes - and they all have something in common. They're all charismatic, well spoken, mature players. They all seem like good kids - good teammates.

When you consider some of the other guys from Hughes past on our team - Farrell and Harris. It's the same thing. It's what Cole oozes in every interview. Guhle, despite being soft spoken - the same. It seems to be a recurring theme. I don't think Newhook was picked up at that price just because of his on-ice capabilities.

To really highlight where this comes from - after watching interviews with Reinbacher, there is a humbleness and eagerness to join the team. I think this pick is not just about addressing a serious need (RD) but about continuing to develop around a general philosophy; an almost Ted Lasso-ian focus on team building. I think Slaf fell into this same mold; just so much character and an eagerness to improve and be a good teammate.

Wright and Michkov will both be excellent players - hyper-competitive, skilled players who will excel in their own rights - but I think that the belief here might be that one well-oiled core is much more important than a single superstar cog.

Now - who knows if this will work out in the end - it will be interesting to see. Maybe this will all work in the end, and our doomsaying will be for nothing as we excitedly watch our team lift a cup.

Or, our team will be a perpetual bottom feeder and Michkov will become a perpetual threat to win the Rocket.

For what it's worth - agree with it or not - there is a plan here. Bergevin never really seemed to have a plan, so I will take a plan I disagree with over random over-corrections.

Awesome Post
Yes this is indeed what is all about and that became evident to me from day 1. My belief is it will work. Good things happen when you hang with Good People. I have my doubts Dubois or Michkov would have been a great fit. MSL is always talking about "taking care of the team first" He didn't just come up with that he lived it. I've mentioned it more than once. Look at every hire since this group took over they are all committed to excellence. Any employee on ice or otherwise who are not meeting these new standards won't be here long. If Cole Caufield signing that contract isn't proof of a willingness to "Take Care of the Team First" I don't know what is. We need to roll with it and understand there are some very very talented good people playing hockey elsewhere. The idea is to create an environment and a standard they can appreciate and an atmosphere they want to become a part of. We are already hearing positives about our on ice approach and if we don't allow a handful of numbed out lunatics to ruin the recipe, there is a very good possibility we will be able to bring over the right players when the time comes. There has been a lot of bitching and moaning on these boards in recent weeks and it tells me one thing some people have absolutely no idea what building a team is all about.

Go Habs Go

 

[ReHabs]

Bergevin didn't acquire a single 1st-round pick in a decade. Not one. Nor did he ever pull off a fancy bank shot like Romanov for 13th OA for Dach, let alone that 1st-round pick we're acquiring somewhere in the multiverse in the next three years. It's clear Hughes has a very different style than the previous guy, although I don't have a clue if it'll translate into different results.

They had different mandates but the mysterious notion of a plan-which-might-not-exist was pinned on both GMs. Hughes is openly talking about expediting the rebuild, doesn't that echo Bergevin's 'don't-call-it-a-rebuild' re-tool from the Kotkaniemi draft onward? It's not typical for a rebuilding team to trade 31 and 37 for a struggling young player, much less one who doesn't have TopX Draft pedigree either.

The difference is Bergevin had a superstar in Carey Price and Hughes has no superstar at this moment.

Hughes has the superior coach and Caufield is coming to the forefront but in terms if managing assets and building a competitive team it appears to me both Bergevin and Hughes had the same intention: a competitive spirit (or "culture") which is upheld by the acquisition and retention of high-quality characters throughout the organization -- when the time to compete comes up, they will load up like Bergevin did in off-season 2020 (Toffoli, Eddy, Chiarot, etc) and tried to re-load for in off-season 2021 (Dvorak, Hoffman).

Seems like Hughes will do the same: nuclear of high-character guys with not much emphasis on acquiring game-breaking talent and then, when the time comes, filling in the skill depth with NHL players.

Will it work? What's the timeline? Nobody knows. Unless the development team actually manages to tangibly improve a good number of our players I simply don't see which players (or prospects) are analogues to the star players in our division and conference.

 

[Rapala]

Vegas went after Eichel, who was a pariah in Buffalo (not because of a lack talent, obviously). I'm sure when they did so they decided he was just what was needed for the locker room and "culture" of the Vegas Golden Knights.

The Habs management and scouting dep keep contradicting themselves. At first they said: We're going to draft the BPA. Then they decided that "culture" was the most important aspect and drafted with that in mind.

DUH
Vegas went after Eichel because they were ready to GO FOR IT.
If we don't build a proper foundation we will never be able to do the same.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I live in Europe so I watch plenty of KHL games. Michkov kid is a real deal. By real deal I mean that this kid is way above Kaprizov when he as a kid playing in Novokuznetsk. I'm pretty sure he'd be way above PPG in SKA as 18 yrs old if he plays next year there.
I understand why Top 4 teams picked 4 top centers ahead of him, but the reason why we and Yotes skipped him is this: this kid doesn't fit into losing mentality teams and there can be trouble with him in teams that planned being bottom feeders for years to come. That's why we and Yotes didn't draft him.
It's the losing culture he doesn't fit in. They deemed Reinbacher a better fit for a bottom feeder.

Really eh? Despite Michkov only coming over in 3 years?

Seems like a very, very dumb take to me.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Awesome Post
Yes this is indeed what is all about and that became evident to me from day 1. My belief is it will work. Good things happen when you hang with Good People. I have my doubts Dubois or Michkov would have been a great fit. MSL is always talking about "taking care of the team first" He didn't just come up with that he lived it. I've mentioned it more than once. Look at every hire since this group took over they are all committed to excellence. Any employee on ice or otherwise who are not meeting these new standards won't be here long. If Cole Caufield signing that contract isn't proof of a willingness to "Take Care of the Team First" I don't know what is. We need to roll with it and understand there are some very very talented good people playing hockey elsewhere. The idea is to create an environment and a standard they can appreciate and an atmosphere they want to become a part of. We are already hearing positives about our on ice approach and if we don't allow a handful of numbed out lunatics to ruin the recipe, there is a very good possibility we will be able to bring over the right players when the time comes. There has been a lot of bitching and moaning on these boards in recent weeks and it tells me one thing some people have absolutely no idea what building a team is all about.

Go Habs Go

A smart, character and TALENTED guy like Monahan gets it. He didn't even try free agency where he might have got maore than a 1 year deal for $2M.

 

[Belial]

Really eh? Despite Michkov only coming over in 3 years?

Seems like a very, very dumb take to me.

We're trying to build a bottom feeder!

 

[BaseballCoach]

They had different mandates but the mysterious notion of a plan-which-might-not-exist was pinned on both GMs. Hughes is openly talking about expediting the rebuild, doesn't that echo Bergevin's 'don't-call-it-a-rebuild' re-tool from the Kotkaniemi draft onward? It's not typical for a rebuilding team to trade 31 and 37 for a struggling young player, much less one who doesn't have TopX Draft pedigree either.

The difference is Bergevin had a superstar in Carey Price and Hughes has no superstar at this moment.

Hughes has the superior coach and Caufield is coming to the forefront but in terms if managing assets and building a competitive team it appears to me both Bergevin and Hughes had the same intention: a competitive spirit (or "culture") which is upheld by the acquisition and retention of high-quality characters throughout the organization -- when the time to compete comes up, they will load up like Bergevin did in off-season 2020 (Toffoli, Eddy, Chiarot, etc) and tried to re-load for in off-season 2021 (Dvorak, Hoffman).

Seems like Hughes will do the same: nuclear of high-character guys with not much emphasis on acquiring game-breaking talent and then, when the time comes, filling in the skill depth with NHL players.

Will it work? What's the timeline? Nobody knows. Unless the development team actually manages to tangibly improve a good number of our players I simply don't see which players (or prospects) are analogues to the star players in our division and conference.

Barron made nice progress last year. Harris and Xhekaj supassed expectations. Dach blossomed. Guhle looked good. Even if you fault the Habs for not developing Slaf better (which I for one do not), it's still 5/6.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think people are paying attention to what is going on in this league. Vegas had a well built foundation from day one and have been knocking at the door ever since. They've had to give up players like Nick Suzuki trying to find that right combination and have finally now hit upon it. How many superstars did they start out with? NONE. How many superstars/stars have they acquired since. Plenty

Seattle are now another team who can benefit from a solid foundation. Their run this year was impressive. How many superstars do they have? NONE
They also have a chance to build the type of team that will be able to bring over stars in the not to distant future.

Two examples of teams built from unprotected players. The advantage being the GM's were able to build with known entities and start with teams that had few gaping holes.

We don't have this luxury but building a solid foundation should always be the goal at the outset do it right and a player like Michkov can become an end game piece.

 

[Rapala]

I think they also want guys that will come train in Montreal in the summer, to stay close to the group. There was an cohesion problem from Gauthier, and you see that in other teams that are supposedly ready for playoff push...

We are trying to find players who will take pride in wearing the CH which isn't as evident as it once was.

 

[cave troll]

Really eh? Despite Michkov only coming over in 3 years?

Seems like a very, very dumb take to me.

Nobody knows when Michkov will come. He could be in NHL this autumn.
On the other hand, in 3 years we'll still be where we are now. Hoping to pick some top center in one of top 5 picks.