My greater theory about Kent Hughes & 'CULTURE'

[NORiculous]

So far it's not even close in my book. Hugues wins.

For one, I don't really hate of find problematic any of the contract he gave up so far.
But we are stuck with the many terrible contract Bergevin gave up even preventing this new management to move on. So just for that, it's a giant win.

Since Hugues traded mostly for pick, prospect or very young nhler, it's too early to say he's better, but at least we know he won't whine about trades being hard and center not being available and all those excuses. They won't hit everytime, but at least they are taking the shot and there's already some little stars in his notebook for Monahan+1st for nothing, Romanov for a 1st (turning into Dach), giant positive move in my book.

And the choices of coach, I mean it's really, really hard to do worst than Therrien, almost impossible.

I agree with what you said but I think you are only underlying Hughes strengths.

The way he is developing Slafkovsky is of concern, even if Slafkovsky is doing much better right now. Rushing a player doesn’t necessarily mean the player won’t make the NHL.

Also, arguably reaching for a D when the team desperately needs offence and having his team be unanimous about it is more then scary.

So, obviously, it depends with who you are comparing him with but let’s not look at him through pink glasses either.

If you are comparing him to MB, Gauthier, Houle.. then sure. Although MB had way more time to make mistakes though.

 

[ReHabs]

So far it's not even close in my book. Hugues wins.

For one, I don't really hate of find problematic any of the contract he gave up so far.
But we are stuck with the many terrible contract Bergevin gave up even preventing this new management to move on. So just for that, it's a giant win.

It's true that contract commitments coming from the Bergevin regime are cumbersome and frustrating but I wouldn't say that they still haunt the Habs. We have just under 10m in cap space left unused. Gallagher and Armia are the two remaining "monsters" but Savard, Dvorak, and Anderson were not immoveable. Hughes infamously refused to trade away his former client Josh Anderson, so the responsibility shifts onto him. Jake Allen was Hughes, Tanner Pearson was Hughes, 4m in Dead Cap was Hughes.

I don't want to blast Hughes about this but I don't think the Cap was in the way at all. I think Hughes felt there was no reason to spend to the Cap or make new commitments. These are different things.

Since Hugues traded mostly for pick, prospect or very young nhler, it's too early to say he's better, but at least we know he won't whine about trades being hard and center not being available and all those excuses. They won't hit everytime, but at least they are taking the shot and there's already some little stars in his notebook for Monahan+1st for nothing, Romanov for a 1st (turning into Dach), giant positive move in my book.

Hughes has wheeled and dealed but he's been in a position to do so -- no expectations, no Carey Price superstar. I think Hughes has had an easier time than Bergevin did.

And the choices of coach, I mean it's really, really hard to do worst than Therrien, almost impossible.

Therrien's pt% during the Bergevin era: 0.608% -> 99pt season
MSL's pt% during the Hughes era: 0.430% -> 71pt season

I didn't like a thing about Therrien and I feel his pt% is inflated by the presence of Carey Price but reality has a bias toward results.

 

[ReHabs]

The way he is developing Slafkovsky is of concern, even if Slafkovsky is doing much better right now. Rushing a player doesn’t necessarily mean the player won’t make the NHL.

Also, arguably reaching for a D when the team desperately needs offence and having his team be unanimous about it is more then scary.

The 2022 and 2023 drafts will go a long way in expediting our rebuild or totally keeping us back and derailing it in a massive way. We don't know yet but the hypothetical downside outcomes are awful. Picture this: Slaf becomes a Danius Zubrus 50-pt winger type, Reinbacher becomes a second pairing d-man and the Habs reach the end of the Suzuki contract and he decides he wants to leave because he's sick to death of losing for eight straight years. It's not unlikely.

 

[26Mats]

I agree, but you would think if a rebuild that was 2 years in was going well, that we would at least have exciting young players performing well in important roles, we haven't seen any progress on that front in 2 years.

I look around the league at other teams that are rebuilding or on the cusp of a rebuild, and if Slaf and Reinbacher don't hit to become core players, we are really back in year 0 of the rebuild, which is scary hours when it comes to Suzuki and Caufield aging out of the core

I mean we had the Slaf pick in a bad draft class.

But ultimately it's too early to know how good Reinbacher and Slaf will be. So while those two draft classes were important, we don't know what we have in them yet. So why complain about something we don't know about yet?

I do think many are living in anxiety about that unknown. Sure it would be great to have gotten a Crosby or Ovechkin and thus have little to know anxiety. But the reality is we don't know how good our draft picks will be and how long the rebuild will take. Most rebuilds take 5-7+ years. It's still very early.

I would have less anxiety myself if we had drafted Michkov. But the reality is we really don't know if Michkov will help us contend more than Reinbacher will. So that anxiety is irrational.

And I am excited about the young players we have so far. In particular Hutson, Reinbacher, Slaf, Engstrom, Mailloux, Barron, Bogdan, Xhekaj, Struble, Roy, Fowler, Beck, Roy plus players who are part of the future Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Guhle, and Matheson.

I'm not judging the rebuild -- the comment is about whether Kent Hughes his actually better than other GMs we've had in the past. I think it's inconclusive. What do you think?

Yes, it's definitely inconclusive.

But it may take time to land that big star in the draft or big fish in free agency.

Already gettting Dach was quite a coup. Now we await patiently to get the next big piece...

 

[Milhouse40]

It's true that contract commitments coming from the Bergevin regime are cumbersome and frustrating but I wouldn't say that they still haunt the Habs. We have just under 10m in cap space left unused. Gallagher and Armia are the two remaining "monsters" but Savard, Dvorak, and Anderson were not immoveable. Hughes infamously refused to trade away his former client Josh Anderson, so the responsibility shifts onto him. Jake Allen was Hughes, Tanner Pearson was Hughes, 4m in Dead Cap was Hughes.

I don't want to blast Hughes about this but I don't think the Cap was in the way at all. I think Hughes felt there was no reason to spend to the Cap or make new commitments. These are different things.


Hughes has wheeled and dealed but he's been in a position to do so -- no expectations, no Carey Price superstar. I think Hughes has had an easier time than Bergevin did.

Therrien's pt% during the Bergevin era: 0.608% -> 99pt season
MSL's pt% during the Hughes era: 0.430% -> 71pt season

I didn't like a thing about Therrien and I feel his pt% is inflated by the presence of Carey Price but reality has a bias toward results.

Allen is not a bad contract and far from being immoveable, it's right along the lines of most NHL goalie and Pearson is only there for this season and brought a pick with him. As for Hugues refusing to trade Anderson, it's not fact based opinion, we don't know that as it's coming from people who never know what's going with the Habs. Bergevin left us more than 30 millions in terrible, immovable contracts.

You think Hugues who received tons of dead money contract, no superstars had an easier time than Bergevin who received a team with a core fully built? And this is why the PTS results by Therrien means squat, not the same quality of team at all!! Therrien was just the worst in many ways.

 

[Milhouse40]

I agree with what you said but I think you are only underlying Hughes strengths.

The way he is developing Slafkovsky is of concern, even if Slafkovsky is doing much better right now. Rushing a player doesn’t necessarily mean the player won’t make the NHL.

Also, arguably reaching for a D when the team desperately needs offence and having his team be unanimous about it is more then scary.

So, obviously, it depends with who you are comparing him with but let’s not look at him through pink glasses either.

If you are comparing him to MB, Gauthier, Houle.. then sure. Although MB had way more time to make mistakes though.

The way he is developping Slafkovsky is a concern, but impossible to place in the bad column at this point......

As for drafting, again, too soon to tell. Seider was such a bigger reach and it turns out to be the best choice.

It's really early to judge the work of a management nwith the mandate to tear it down and rebuild this team, it will take a couple of years to really know the mistakes and good moves.

And yes, the questions was about MB and KH, not the others.

 

[Hickflyer]

Fire HuGo

 

[nhlfan9191]

It's true that contract commitments coming from the Bergevin regime are cumbersome and frustrating but I wouldn't say that they still haunt the Habs. We have just under 10m in cap space left unused. Gallagher and Armia are the two remaining "monsters" but Savard, Dvorak, and Anderson were not immoveable. Hughes infamously refused to trade away his former client Josh Anderson, so the responsibility shifts onto him. Jake Allen was Hughes, Tanner Pearson was Hughes, 4m in Dead Cap was Hughes.

I don't want to blast Hughes about this but I don't think the Cap was in the way at all. I think Hughes felt there was no reason to spend to the Cap or make new commitments. These are different things.


Hughes has wheeled and dealed but he's been in a position to do so -- no expectations, no Carey Price superstar. I think Hughes has had an easier time than Bergevin did.

Therrien's pt% during the Bergevin era: 0.608% -> 99pt season
MSL's pt% during the Hughes era: 0.430% -> 71pt season

I didn't like a thing about Therrien and I feel his pt% is inflated by the presence of Carey Price but reality has a bias toward results.

There’s no debating Hughes had a much harder task then Bergevin when he took over. Hughes has to tear down and rebuild a home while Bergevin just had to buy some furniture to finish up the renovation.

 

[ReHabs]

Allen is not a bad contract and far from being immoveable, it's right along the lines of most NHL goalie and Pearson is only there for this season and brought a pick with him. As for Hugues refusing to trade Anderson, it's not fact based opinion, we don't know that as it's coming from people who never know what's going with the Habs. Bergevin left us more than 30 millions in terrible, immovable contracts.

You think Hugues who received tons of dead money contract, no superstars had an easier time than Bergevin who received a team with a core fully built? And this is why the PTS results by Therrien means squat, not the same quality of team at all!! Therrien was just the worst in many ways.

If you're going to forgive and minimize everything, then sure. We can disagree.

The Anderson comment comes from Pierre LeBrun who's as well-reputed as it gets around the NHL. But if you're going to forgive and minimize everything, that's fine, we can disagree.

There’s no debating Hughes had a much harder task then Bergevin when he took over. Hughes has to tear down and rebuild a home while Bergevin just had to buy some furniture to finish up the renovation.

Harder task to build a contender, yes. It was incredibly easy to get from Day 1 to this point for Kent Hughes, however. Zero expectations, zero pressure, a very forgiving and docile fanbase. I can't say his job is hard right now, he's done pretty much nothing and the results reflect this. In many ways we're actually worse than when he took over. The hope (or delusion) we all share is that there is light at the end of the very long tunnel.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

You'll be shocked to learn that I'm not at all impressed with the results of the rebuild thus far. The purpose of a rebuild is to acquire talent. They seem to be doing everything in their power to avoid doing so.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There’s no debating Hughes had a much harder task then Bergevin when he took over. Hughes has to tear down and rebuild a home while Bergevin just had to buy some furniture to finish up the renovation.

Yep, there was a really good core ready for MB. And he didn’t add to it at all. Brutal.

 

[ReHabs]

You'll be shocked to learn that I'm not at all impressed with the results of the rebuild thus far. The purpose of a rebuild is to acquire talent. They seem to be doing everything in their power to avoid doing so.

There haven't been any results to begin with. Just vague notions of 'progress' without much of the actual progress.

Yep, there was a really good core ready for MB. And he didn’t add to it at all. Brutal.

Bergevin's inheritance also came with two cap-relief buyouts. A terrific starting hand.

That said, he also had the more difficult task: to build up a contender. I think it's easier to lose and shrug it off and make some dickhead statement to the media (a la Kent Hughes) than to deal with the demands of putting together and keeping together a winning team. Bergevin utterly failed and in many ways, no doubt, but it wasn't so straight forward. The complete lack of talent coming up from the amateur pipeline was devastating to Bergevin's team building. Again, that's Bergevin's responsibility and he failed but it doesn't make his work any easier. Kent Hughes is playing in a sandbox right now, comparatively. Habs commentators even celebrate and cheer after losing to sworn rivals. It's pathetic.

 

[barbu]

The strategy has been sound so far, the execution not so much. The thing is the whole organisation was rotten to the core when he took over - not just the product on the ice. Just changing a couple of guys at the top isn't going to change everything. Also, the Bobrov hire isn't reassuring me at all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The strategy has been sound so far, the execution not so much. The thing is the whole organisation was rotten to the core when he took over - not just the product on the ice. Just changing a couple of guys at the top isn't going to change everything. Also, the Bobrov hire isn't reassuring me at all.

I think 21 is going to turn out to be a really good draft for us. 22? We drafted some goalies who seem to be doing well and RB hasn’t had a great start.

But two drafts is not much to go in and we’re so early in.

 

[Milhouse40]

If you're going to forgive and minimize everything, then sure. We can disagree.

The Anderson comment comes from Pierre LeBrun who's as well-reputed as it gets around the NHL. But if you're going to forgive and minimize everything, that's fine, we can disagree.

Harder task to build a contender, yes. It was incredibly easy to get from Day 1 to this point for Kent Hughes, however. Zero expectations, zero pressure, a very forgiving and docile fanbase. I can't say his job is hard right now, he's done pretty much nothing and the results reflect this. In many ways we're actually worse than when he took over. The hope (or delusion) we all share is that there is light at the end of the very long tunnel.

These comments are coming for Lebrun?
Were are his comments about the Dach, Newhook or any other trades happening from the Habs? But nevermind that, do we know the entire trade? Which contract we had to take back, cause that would've been a must for any trade with that type of contract happening? Fact is: We don't know.

Bergevin also came in with Zero expectation or pressure....the team finished at the bottom of the NHL the year prior due to tons of injuries and if you think getting Monahan+1st, Dach, Newhook and Matheson in the span of 18 months for basically Petry, Chiarot and Romanov is doing pretty much nothing, then you can't defend Bergevin.

Don't get me wrong here.....you choose to compare him to Bergevin which is setting the bar extremely low, he really sucked.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Fire the entire drafting staff

 

[salbutera]

You would think that over a 30 year period they would have drafted one player who became a superstar that wasn't a goalie.

Which superstar fwd (defined as having high end top-20 league output for more than 1-2 seasons) have the Habs drafted post 1970?

This is not a 30-year issue…

 

[Toene]

Which superstar fwd (defined as having high end top-20 league output for more than 1-2 seasons) have the Habs drafted post 1970?

This is not a 30-year issue…

There was this dude in 1971, Guy Lafleur. But I know what you meant.

 

[Shutdown]

Lebrun did report that the Habs declined a first round pick last January for Anderson.
then 6 months later the Jets' beat writer reported that the Jets declined a package that included Anderson for P-L Dubois.

if you're going to believe the more "credible" rumours, then it's not like Hughes kept Anderson due to some sort of nepotistic, former client/agent relationship reason. it was an asset management move that has now come back to bite him. but any soothsayer who says they saw this goalless 25 game start to the season coming better raise their hand because i've got some parlay bets i've got to run by you.

edit: lol empty netter. maybe i'm the soothsayer.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Fire the entire drafting staff

Why?

Both drafts look very promising.

 

[Andy]

Yep, there was a really good core ready for MB. And he didn’t add to it at all. Brutal.

The MB leftovers are hard to evaluate because the team does have good pieces in Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, along with a plethora of D like Stuble, Xhekaj, Harris, Mailloux. There is also Roy.

But MB left the club with almost 0 nhl ready talent. You see how glaring it is when the team starts to face injuries. Of course, they did move Toffoli and Lekhonen.

Not only that, there is also all the bad contracts that the club is still trying to get rid of: Armia, Gallagher, Hoffman, Drouin, Petry (debatable), Byron.

In just two years, the club did add Barron, Dach, Newhook, Monahan and Matheson which adds a decent amount of offensive potential that wasn't there before.

We under-estimate just how bad of shape the previous regime left this team.