My greater theory about Kent Hughes & 'CULTURE'

[Tyson]

I get what they are trying to achieve but I still don’t know why not have a well-oiled core WITH some superstar talents?

You would think that over a 30 year period they would have drafted one player who became a superstar that wasn't a goalie.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You would think that over a 30 year period they would have drafted one player who became a superstar that wasn't a goalie.

Why would you think that when they had incompetent management for that entire period and only the current management has shown any ability to manage?

 

[Tyson]

Why would you think that when they had incompetent management for that entire period and only the current management has shown any ability to manage?

Even blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Even blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion.

Not if the mgmt is so incompetent that they end up finishing in the middle of the pack every season. And they did pick some players who could have been stars if they didn't also have imbecile NHL and AHL coaches to screw them up.

 

[ReHabs]

Why would you think that when they had incompetent management for that entire period and only the current management has shown any ability to manage?

Do you really think the current management has shown the ability to manage? What have they shown??

 

[Habs]

You would think that over a 30 year period they would have drafted one player who became a superstar that wasn't a goalie.

Go back to the Kostisyn draft and what they passed on, how they could have rebuilt since that draft onwards. Even players they should have moved in their prime to get top picks for future talent etc, they have failed on every front

 

[Tyson]

Do you really think the current management has shown the ability to manage? What have they shown??

Great question for sure.

 

[Colezuki]

Great question for sure.

The ability to make trades that fit a longer term vision of the team at the very least and not just trading nickels.

Newhook and dach were both trades for a player that fit a need. Young offensive players

 

[DAChampion]

The ability to make trades that fit a longer term vision of the team at the very least and not just trading nickels.

Newhook and dach were both trades for a player that fit a need. Young offensive players

Newhook, Dach, Matheson, Chiarot, Toffoli, Barron trades all follow a consistent logic beyond winning 1for1deals.

At the very least, Hughes is a better trader than Bergevin.

 

[ReHabs]

The ability to make trades that fit a longer term vision of the team at the very least and not just trading nickels.

Newhook and dach were both trades for a player that fit a need. Young offensive players

Both Newhook and Dach were buy-low trades and good risks worth taking, for sure. If they were established offensive players they wouldn't have been available or not at their relatively "low" costs. This management group has shown their interest in making such gambles and bets. I wouldn't say this credit extends to calling them visionaries just yet because what little they've built so far is a hopeless, soft, small team that has zero star power. We need to see much more before we can give them credit for any accomplishment or attempt.

At best we can say they seem more ambitious than Bergevin... but even then, when you have Carey Price you should be ambitious. That was Bergevin's flaw, I don't think it makes Hughes good by default that he's more ambitious than the notoriously unambitious Bergevin.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

So exactly what HuGo are doing,

You mean what Bergevin did, successfully? At least give credit where it is due

That was our entire roster build the year we went to the cup, we had enormous defenders, speedy forwards, and Carey Price

But now you say HuGo have shown more competence for ~trying to replicate it?

 

[26Mats]

Both Newhook and Dach were buy-low trades and good risks worth taking, for sure. If they were established offensive players they wouldn't have been available or not at their relatively "low" costs. This management group has shown their interest in making such gambles and bets. I wouldn't say this credit extends to calling them visionaries just yet because what little they've built so far is a hopeless, soft, small team that has zero star power. We need to see much more before we can give them credit for any accomplishment or attempt.

At best we can say they seem more ambitious than Bergevin... but even then, when you have Carey Price you should be ambitious. That was Bergevin's flaw, I don't think it makes Hughes good by default that he's more ambitious than the notoriously unambitious Bergevin.

Trying to judge a rebuild two years in is like trying to judge a draft two years after it.

We just dont' know what the future holds.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Trying to judge a rebuild two years in is like trying to judge a draft two years after it.

We just dont' know what the future holds.

I agree, but you would think if a rebuild that was 2 years in was going well, that we would at least have exciting young players performing well in important roles, we haven't seen any progress on that front in 2 years.

I look around the league at other teams that are rebuilding or on the cusp of a rebuild, and if Slaf and Reinbacher don't hit to become core players, we are really back in year 0 of the rebuild, which is scary hours when it comes to Suzuki and Caufield aging out of the core

 

[ReHabs]

Trying to judge a rebuild two years in is like trying to judge a draft two years after it.

We just dont' know what the future holds.

I'm not judging the rebuild -- the comment is about whether Kent Hughes his actually better than other GMs we've had in the past. I think it's inconclusive. What do you think?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Do you really think the current management has shown the ability to manage? What have they shown??

They are MUCH better than anything in the last 25 years. All you have to do is look at their trades. But it's too early to know if they will create a contender. The most difficult part is to recognize the missing piece or 2 and be able to acquire it.

You mean what Bergevin did, successfully? At least give credit where it is due

That was our entire roster build the year we went to the cup, we had enormous defenders, speedy forwards, and Carey Price

But now you say HuGo have shown more competence for ~trying to replicate it?

All MB did was add any players that he could. He had no idea how to assemble a contender. There was NO plan.

 

[NORiculous]

Hughes seems good at contracts negotiations and I like the Dach and Newhook trades, among others.

The Slafkovsky handling was way risky, even if it seems to be doing ok right now.

Them being unanimous about a far from unanimous pick… is scary, at best. I think the strategy was flawed even if Reinbacher becomes a good player.

I’m not sure the Lapointe/Bobrov is a good combination.

Time will tell.

The main problem is that when we know, it will probably be too late for the Suzuki era.

They undoubtedly have some good points but also have some red flags.

Let’s also remember that most parts of this team still comes from MB! So if you like this team, you need to give some credit to MB.

 

[HuGort]

So exactly what HuGo are doing,

Yes and no!

Yes, it's what I would do.

No, some of moves Hughes made not what I would do. Like keeping Anderson. The Allen big contract or Pearson trade.

 

[hvac412]

Both Newhook and Dach were buy-low trades and good risks worth taking, for sure. If they were established offensive players they wouldn't have been available or not at their relatively "low" costs. This management group has shown their interest in making such gambles and bets. I wouldn't say this credit extends to calling them visionaries just yet because what little they've built so far is a hopeless, soft, small team that has zero star power. We need to see much more before we can give them credit for any accomplishment or attempt.

At best we can say they seem more ambitious than Bergevin... but even then, when you have Carey Price you should be ambitious. That was Bergevin's flaw, I don't think it makes Hughes good by default that he's more ambitious than the notoriously unambitious Bergevin.

I like most of your assessment, and you definitely nailed it with Bergeven, Carey Price was never given a well built team in front of him.I thought the Subban trade was brilliant, but then he just stopped after acquiring Weber and just kept patching . I definitely think we have a solid core and possibly some future stars/superstars, but in my opinion MSL just plainly lacks coaching experience and I don’t think he’s the one to take this team to the next level .

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Yes and no!

Yes, it's what I would do.

No, some of moves Hughes made not what I would do. Like keeping Anderson. The Allen big contract or Pearson trade.

Context. Allen's contact is miniscule for a starter which is what he was because Habs had no other goalie when he as signed. It wasn't long enough to have any effect in the long run. The offers for Anderson were likely NOT enough to make up for retention. And he was perceived as big part of the Habs toughness then. Pearson was a throw in. The trade had nothing to do with him.
The one thing they should have done is add a couple of enforcer types to protect the team . Don't care if they can barely skate as long as they can act as a deterrent. A factor in Habs injuries is that guys are getting hit too often because no one is scared of anyone on the roster.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

They are MUCH better than anything in the last 25 years. All you have to do is look at their trades. But it's too early to know if they will create a contender. The most difficult part is to recognize the missing piece or 2 and be able to acquire it.


All MB did was add any players that he could. He had no idea how to assemble a contender. There was NO plan.

It really comes down to what you believe a good GM should have been able to accomplish during Price's tenure. Multiple cups is always a stretch but I would have liked one lol.

MB's trades were actually one of his best assets. Aside from the Drouin fiasco, and the Kotkaniemi-Dvorak fiasco that led to him getting canned, he made a lot of decent moves. Subban for Weber hurt me more than any other trade in my lifetime and I hated it for years, but ultimately it was a great swap.

For the bolded, MB added a top-4 of Weber, Petry, Edmundson, Chiarot. They were the best defense in the playoffs that year (depends how much credit you give to Price). He had the pesky fast forward core with Danault shutting down every other team's top lines, Suzuki was able to produce offensively. Lehkonen was clutch, Byron was able to produce when it mattered.

You said big defenders and speedy forwards was HuGo's vision? Looks a lot like MB's vision to me.

You also said that the goal was to add former captains with cup experience, clearly that is not HuGo's goal. MB added Tofffoli, Perry, Edmundson, and Staal the year we went to the Cup. It seems to me that your formula for success is just copying and pasting MB's most successful year.

 

[HuGort]

Context. Allen's contact is miniscule for a starter which is what he was because Habs had no other goalie when he as signed. It wasn't long enough to have any effect in the long run. The offers for Anderson were likely NOT enough to make up for retention. And he was perceived as big part of the Habs toughness then. Pearson was a throw in. The trade had nothing to do with him.
The one thing they should have done is add a couple of enforcer types to protect the team . Don't care if they can barely skate as long as they can act as a deterrent. A factor in Habs injuries is that guys are getting hit too often because no one is scared of anyone on the roster.

Definitely hung on to Anderson too long. I seen with Gallagher, those physical players with lot of injuries have shorter career effectiveness. Around 30 on them is like 35 on average player. Anderson Been gone two years ago if I running the team. 100%. There was never no retention on Anderson. Don't go make stuff up. LeBrun reported the return on him was high. It's well known. Pearson just blocking our young prospects. He's done. Allen way too much money. He's untradable now. A 30 something veteran backup, goes for around 1 million. Reimer type. They common.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

It really comes down to what you believe a good GM should have been able to accomplish during Price's tenure. Multiple cups is always a stretch but I would have liked one lol.

MB's trades were actually one of his best assets. Aside from the Drouin fiasco, and the Kotkaniemi-Dvorak fiasco that led to him getting canned, he made a lot of decent moves. Subban for Weber hurt me more than any other trade in my lifetime and I hated it for years, but ultimately it was a great swap.

For the bolded, MB added a top-4 of Weber, Petry, Edmundson, Chiarot. They were the best defense in the playoffs that year (depends how much credit you give to Price). He had the pesky fast forward core with Danault shutting down every other team's top lines, Suzuki was able to produce offensively. Lehkonen was clutch, Byron was able to produce when it mattered.

You said big defenders and speedy forwards was HuGo's vision? Looks a lot like MB's vision to me.

You also said that the goal was to add former captains with cup experience, clearly that is not HuGo's goal. MB added Tofffoli, Perry, Edmundson, and Staal the year we went to the Cup. It seems to me that your formula for success is just copying and pasting MB's most successful year.

It's not mine. It's the OP's. I was saying that all of the things the OP wanted to do HuGo has already done to varying degrees.

 

[Milhouse40]

I'm not judging the rebuild -- the comment is about whether Kent Hughes his actually better than other GMs we've had in the past. I think it's inconclusive. What do you think?

So far it's not even close in my book. Hugues wins.

For one, I don't really hate of find problematic any of the contract he gave up so far.
But we are stuck with the many terrible contract Bergevin gave up even preventing this new management to move on. So just for that, it's a giant win.

Since Hugues traded mostly for pick, prospect or very young nhler, it's too early to say he's better, but at least we know he won't whine about trades being hard and center not being available and all those excuses. They won't hit everytime, but at least they are taking the shot and there's already some little stars in his notebook for Monahan+1st for nothing, Romanov for a 1st (turning into Dach), giant positive move in my book.

And the choices of coach, I mean it's really, really hard to do worst than Therrien, almost impossible.

 

[Andrei79]

You mean what Bergevin did, successfully? At least give credit where it is due

That was our entire roster build the year we went to the cup, we had enormous defenders, speedy forwards, and Carey Price

But now you say HuGo have shown more competence for ~trying to replicate it?

It depends what you judge as successful.

I don't consider a cup final to be successful. It took him a decade to get there and the end result was a loss followed by a complete collapse of the franchise. Why should this deserve any credit ?
.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You mean what Bergevin did, successfully? At least give credit where it is due

That was our entire roster build the year we went to the cup, we had enormous defenders, speedy forwards, and Carey Price

But now you say HuGo have shown more competence for ~trying to replicate it?

The new regime is definitely superior to the old.

- At no time did Bergevin choose a direction.

- Bergevin consistently rushed prospects and misused them

- MB hired the worst coach in the league

- Bergevin would get middling journeymen and them play them in key roles.

- There was no focus on skill. Quite the opposite. Skilled players were asked to play like Brandon Prust.

- “Grind! Grind! Grind!”

The new regime is clearly rebuilding. The players we’ve traded for are young players who were well regarded in their draft years. Slaf aside - we’ve been very patient in bringing players up. MSL has demonstrated a good ability to develop. Cc, Slaf, Guehle, Xejac, Dach and Barron all progressed very well.

It’s just unfortunate that we’ve had the injuries we have. That’s limited what we could’ve shown in those moves. Both Dach and Newhook were looking good before they went down though.