Confirmed with Link: Muzzin to Toronto for 2019 1st, Grundstrom, and rights to Durzi

[Lt Dan]

And consider that 3 months ago, most everyone had the opinion that Sean Durzi would never play in the NHL. I'd say that 3 months from now, he may become a known name in the NHL. I was not a believer after his first game - pretty shaky on D. But the last few, he's doing better and most all first year defensemen have some shaky moments. His skating, confidence and poise with the puck and decision making on offense, is looking very promising. He's making the powerplay
better, already.

He's not soft, either. Someone said he hopefully can be Chris Chelios light. Now that's maybe a stretch, but I like that. Let's see how he's doing, 3 months from now. Or next year.

Carl Grundstrom was worth a shot and had a few good seasons in SHL and 1 in the AHL. Can skate, hit, decent shot, ok hands...and can play the boards and good in front of the net. I don't think they expected him to be top 6. He's done pretty well and when with the Reign, was the best player there some nights. I think he's done ok and could do more, with a bigger role. He would score some on PP2, if he was by the net. The thing is, a good bottom 6 can win you some games. The Kings need a better bottom 6 and get rid of the Wagner's, Luff's, etc and upgrade there. Lemieux, Moore and Grundstrom are upgrades there. I always was jealous of teams like Tampa Bay, that could ice 12
good forwards every night that could play NHL hockey. Makes a difference. I bet Carl could make most of the NHL teams 4th line.

Bjornfot. He's only 20. I don't know how you could expect any more from him, at age 20. He's better than Roy or Walker. Roy is already losing his game that he had, pre-concussed.
That sucks. Bjornfot is not a finished product and he will put up some offense. Yawney is pushing him and he's responding. Has activated more and getting some good shots
and making some plays....he gets beat less than Anderson.

Indeed bro

I down know if Roy is shell shocked or overwhelmed, but he is not the same player

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Grundstrom was the guy I was hoping would be a lock to be a top 6 NHL forward. From my memory he was scoring quite a bit in the A and was not in Toronto's lineup due to their forward depth. I've been disappointed with him up until this season. I still think he has a solid chance at being a decent player. It sucks the coaches don't give him more offensive threats to play with when he's doing what's asked of him in limited minutes.

 

[Telos]

Still looks good. Not many deals like that end up with all three assets on the main team... Of course, I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing at this point

 

[KingsHockey24]

If Willie Desjardins was still the coach, Carl Grundstrom would be a 50 point player.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Looks like a quality for quantity trade in hindsight

 

[YP44]

now it's time to flip Grundstrom to keep the trade tree going

 

[Mats26]

I don't totally disagree with you, Mats26, but I don't know that it's been a very good trade. If you look at it on both sides, Toronto got a big, physical, veteran defenseman who has effectively been one of their top two for the past three seasons. That's what they wanted, and that's what they went out and got.

If you look at it strictly from the Kings point of view, let's not forget what we lost in Jake Muzzin. Posters on this board are constantly harping on how soft the defense is, and that's partially a product of what we lost in Muzzin. He may not have dropped the gloves a lot, but he was big and pretty mean in the defensive zone. Posters on this board are also well aware of the how little offense the Kings get from the back end. Jake Muzzin is tied with Morgan Reilly for the most goals and points at even strength on the Maple Leafs defense corps.

Grundstrom is a decent player, but he's running out of runway, and I don't see how he's gonna take off.

Durzi is a power play specialist, which is great, but he's not exactly the all around defenseman that Muzzin is. Maybe he'll get better, but he'll never bring the physicality. Fingers crossed on whether Durzi sticks.

The trade really hinges on on Tobias Bjornfot. He's been a decent defenseman, but a stay-at-home sort who contributes next to nothing on the offensive side. I still have high hopes for him, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

You can look at it this way. Value-wise, does three bottom-6/bottom-3 players equal one top pairing D? If you do, fair trade. If and when Bjornfot develops into a top pairing D, that's a win.

I agree that change had to be made, but maybe we're undervaluing Jake Muzzin here.

Not sure if you are talking about this year but in 26 games Reilly has 18 pts Muzzin has only 8. Regardless on 5-5 or not Reilly provides the offense. Muzzin is not a top pairing D.

8 pts on a power house offensive team compared to the Kings D core:

Drew 8gp 11 pts
Edler 24gp 10 pts
Roy 24gp 6 pts
Durzi 6gp 5pts

Muzzin isn't exactly what we need now for the offense. Can we use his physical play. Absolutely. But we can sign\trade for those type of players. I don't think a 32 year old declining, often injured D man is what we need right now. If we can get a 25 year old Muzzin back then sure.

The trade was made with the future in mind. It will only get better once the 3 assets are in the NHL and used to either better the team via their play or in trade.

 

[lumbergh]

Not sure if you are talking about this year but in 26 games Reilly has 18 pts Muzzin has only 8. Regardless on 5-5 or not Reilly provides the offense. Muzzin is not a top pairing D.

8 pts on a power house offensive team compared to the Kings D core:

Drew 8gp 11 pts
Edler 24gp 10 pts
Roy 24gp 6 pts
Durzi 6gp 5pts

Muzzin isn't exactly what we need now for the offense. Can we use his physical play. Absolutely. But we can sign\trade for those type of players. I don't think a 32 year old declining, often injured D man is what we need right now. If we can get a 25 year old Muzzin back then sure.

The trade was made with the future in mind. It will only get better once the 3 assets are in the NHL and used to either better the team via their play or in trade.

Over the past three seasons, both Reilly and Muzzin have 9 goals and 44 assists at even strength. Muzzin ranks third in even strength ice time for them:

He's also played the vast majority of games for a full decade, so I don't know where you're getting the often injured part from. Where are you gonna sign or trade for a Jake Muzzin type player?

Again, I don't disagree that the Kings got value, but again, don't undervalue Jake Muzzin. He's not a dime-a-dozen player in this league and the Kings absolutely could use a guy like him.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The issue with the Muzzin trade are the returns, not whether he should have been kept and extended. It’s likely that Toronto’s was the best offer. There was a choice between Llijgren and Durzi. Neither are top end players, but I can see how Durzi better fit the Kings need for offensive defenseman.

What didn’t happen was any retained salary. That should have increased the returns and broadened the market.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is Tobias Bjornfot considered chopped liver around these parts nowadays?

 

[Mats26]

Over the past three seasons, both Reilly and Muzzin have 9 goals and 44 assists at even strength. Muzzin ranks third in even strength ice time for them:
View attachment 488401
He's also played the vast majority of games for a full decade, so I don't know where you're getting the often injured part from. Where are you gonna sign or trade for a Jake Muzzin type player?

Again, I don't disagree that the Kings got value, but again, don't undervalue Jake Muzzin. He's not a dime-a-dozen player in this league and the Kings absolutely could use a guy like him.

He had his best years with us and the trade came in just when the rebuild was starting. Remember we were losing already with Muzzin in the lineup. 1st and 2 prospects is good value. Bearfoot is great and getting better. Durzi\Grundy are just getting started as well.

We can look back at 5-5 stats, but include PP pts and I'll take Reilly on this team any day. Missing grit sure....Edmunson was available at one point for really cheap to replace some of the grit left by Muzzin. Chariot looks like a nice replacement in that regard as well. But like I said we need a 25 year old Muzzin not a 32 year old. Chychrun is about as close to what we need as a replacement right now.

Taking nothing away from Muzzin, good player, but in 2-3 years we'll realize that it is a business and it was the right time to move on.

 

[Lt Dan]

Is Tobias Bjornfot considered chopped liver around these parts nowadays?

He is currently sirloin for me.
Not the best cut, but the value is there. I am hoping that he is NY Strip or Ribeye by the end of the season

 

[Schrute farms]

Bjornfot is 20 years old and already an NHL player playing good minutes. Where was Muzzin at 20? Granted, Muzzin made huge strides in his mid 20's and it's unlikely TB does the same. Still, it's good to take a step back and see the full picture here when viewing TB (not to mention Durzi).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A 20 year old player who can play 20 minutes is basically ahead of Jake Muzzin's career, so that alone is sort of a big value.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

There are not many 20 year olds playing a regular D shift in the NHL. Toby will only get better and has a high floor and yes, a limited ceiling, but he's going to get better in all areas.

geez, had not seen the RJ above mine...somewhat repetitive. Sorry.

 

[lumbergh]

He is currently sirloin for me.
Not the best cut, but the value is there. I am hoping that he is NY Strip or Ribeye by the end of the season

Eye of round for me. Lean, not a ton of flavor. Good for at home, not my choice for flair.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Over the past three seasons, both Reilly and Muzzin have 9 goals and 44 assists at even strength. Muzzin ranks third in even strength ice time for them:
View attachment 488401
He's also played the vast majority of games for a full decade, so I don't know where you're getting the often injured part from. Where are you gonna sign or trade for a Jake Muzzin type player?

Again, I don't disagree that the Kings got value, but again, don't undervalue Jake Muzzin. He's not a dime-a-dozen player in this league and the Kings absolutely could use a guy like him.

Curious, do regular strength goals count...double or something? It's not just you either, I see it all the time, Player ABC sucks because he only has 30 ES points....while ignoring they have 45 Special teams points..... and while yes, most of the game is played on ES, unless those goals count double, I could care less how the player scores, I would take a PP specialist who can give me 80 PP points and zero ES points vs a ES player who can net me 40 ES pts and 20 PP points.

 

[YP44]

Curious, do regular strength goals count...double or something? It's not just you either, I see it all the time, Player ABC sucks because he only has 30 ES points....while ignoring they have 45 Special teams points..... and while yes, most of the game is played on ES, unless those goals count double, I could care less how the player scores, I would take a PP specialist who can give me 80 PP points and zero ES points vs a ES player who can net me 40 ES pts and 20 PP points.

you're right. I use ES vs PP points when looking at a team and how they may or may not perform come playoff time. Less penalties called in the playoffs therefore ES success is more important

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

you're right. I use ES vs PP points when looking at a team and how they may or may not perform come playoff time. Less penalties called in the playoffs therefore ES success is more important

Fair enough, I was looking at it through a seasons lens...but good point.

 

[lumbergh]

Curious, do regular strength goals count...double or something? It's not just you either, I see it all the time, Player ABC sucks because he only has 30 ES points....while ignoring they have 45 Special teams points..... and while yes, most of the game is played on ES, unless those goals count double, I could care less how the player scores, I would take a PP specialist who can give me 80 PP points and zero ES points vs a ES player who can net me 40 ES pts and 20 PP points.

It's just a way to compare apples to apples. If you must know, Jake Muzzin scores way more goals per 60 minutes (1.2) on the power play than Morgan Reilly (0.34), but has only played 50 minutes compared to Reilly's 352 over the past three seasons. Some players get lots of minutes while others don't, so I don't put that in the analysis, as it wouldn't be fair.

 

[BigKing]

Trading Muzzin when they did also had the effect of making them that much worse in 2019 as the tank officially began. Keeping him until the off-season or the 2020 trade deadline could have led to more wins and Blake was actively setting out to lose.

Muzzin made real dollars of $8MM in the first year of his new deal. It's not just a cap hit that the Kings wouldn't have signed up for but AEG wasn't remotely interested in the real dollars aspect.

I probably said somewhere in this thread that this thing is a grand slam if the pick turns out to be a Top 6/Top 4 and if Grundstrom tops out as a good 3rd liner. We are most likely not in grand slam territory but it's a pretty damn good trade if Bjornfot is a #4, cost-controlled defenseman. Bjornfot will be 22 when his ELC expires after next season while Muzzin will be 34. Kings should be able to sign him to a good contract at that point as well.

I like Muzzin but this is a complete tear down type of trade. Getting picks doesn't matter if you miss on them. As expected when drafted, Bjornfot doesn't look like a miss but he also doesn't look dynamic. Of course, that's kind of why Blake took him: he was determined not to miss with this pick or else there was a good chance he would have traded Muzzin for nothing in the end. If he walks out of this trade with a solid, 18-20 minute defenseman that will be a King for years in exchange for a very good but older defenseman that was going to help the Kings win games for a season and a half--which was counterproductive to the tank--and not be brought back, I think he is going to feel pretty good about it.

Now...if you want to get in to a Clague v. Durzi debate and throw out the theory that Blake's ego just cost the Kings Clague because he wasn't a Blake pick and Blake is going to force this Durzi thing to make this trade look better, I'm all ears.

 

[Mats26]

It's just a way to compare apples to apples. If you must know, Jake Muzzin scores way more goals per 60 minutes (1.2) on the power play than Morgan Reilly (0.34), but has only played 50 minutes compared to Reilly's 352 over the past three seasons. Some players get lots of minutes while others don't, so I don't put that in the analysis, as it wouldn't be fair.

What is not fair and on cue is that Reilly has 4 pts tonight, the game is not even over yet. We shouldn't twist stats to look like we traded them a #1 D to the leafs, we didn't. Muzzin is a great #3 now maybe #2 in his prime.

 

[cyclones22]

I liked Muzzin when he was here. But at his height while with the Kings he was a #3. The #2 was Voynov until he got kicked out of the league. The defense was never the same after he was gone. Hell if you think about both Cup runs Muzzin was probably the most nondescript of all of the defensemen but that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, Voynov, Mitchell, Martinez, Scuderi and even Greene had big playoff moments.

 

[BigKing]

I liked Muzzin when he was here. But at his height while with the Kings he was a #3. The #2 was Voynov until he got kicked out of the league. The defense was never the same after he was gone. Hell if you think about both Cup runs Muzzin was probably the most nondescript of all of the defensemen but that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, Voynov, Mitchell, Martinez, Scuderi and even Greene had big playoff moments.

Muzzin was huge in the '14 WCF

 

[Stimpythecat]

Muzzin was a Black Ace in 2012. He only contributed to the 2014 Cup.