Confirmed with Link: Muzzin to Toronto for 2019 1st, Grundstrom, and rights to Durzi

[KINGS17]

Just for reference, all the infractions I've gotten have been because of leafs fans.

Oh come on!!!

 

[Sol]

Oh come on!!!

Is there something you want to get off your chest?

 

[KINGS17]

Is there something you want to get off your chest?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I have to admit, I don't comprehend the thought process of posters who want to get you banned simply because your take on a player or deal has changed or evolved over time. That's mob mentality right there.

That’s because you don’t know the full story, I’ll fully admit some Leaf fans can be arrogant and jerks just like any fan base. No one should be coming into gloat especially when for the most part both fanbases actually like the trade. It’s generally fans of other teams who seem to be trying to make it into a winners/ losers thing.

He used to be a Leaf fan or at least claimed to be one until he eventually stopped posting on our board. You don’t find it odd he suddenly starts posting in here after the Muzzin trade, he did the same thing with the Islanders and Tavares, the Jets when Laine vs Matthews was a thing it’s a pattern. Now he’s entitled to say what he wants but it’s not like Leaf fans just started ganging up on him out of nowhere.

Even now he’s trying to imply blame on Muzzin when it was hardly his fault. That’s what causes people to be upset. Did he ever even post here before the trade? Do you find his motives for suddenly boosting Grundstrom and criticizing Muzzin a little suspect?

I’m glad Grundstrom is working out, I’m really liking Muzzin so far. Anyways I’m sorry to jump in on your board I just wanted to add a little context.

*edit* To the mods of this board, if this post is inappropriate or doesn’t belong please remove it. I have no desire to cause trouble, I’m just trying to explain what causes a reaction.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.

But more than once we've had to worry about US/sunbelt fan comments on our own boards, so.

We've had some great discussions with Leaf fans and I love when people visit to share opinions, there's been some good discussion. But when the turf war spills over, and hot takes based on country happens, it gets embarassing. I'm just calling a spade a spade. But maybe you're right that I should have prefaced it with "some" so I'm sorry for that. We have plenty of Canadian Kings fans right here so I'm certainly not painting the whole country with one brush, just those who bring the "our sport, nyah noobs" attitude over as if we haven't had this team and the sport since mid-last-century.

No worries, I am Canadian, and I did not take any offence to your comments. I know where you were coming from. I have always viewed hockey as a global game, I don't believe one nation is more superior to another when it comes to hockey. Especially in the modern era. Though I do recognize a segment of Canadians do think this way. So there is some truth in what you said. So again no probs.

 

[kovacro]

Really not worth judging this trade until Toronto finishes in the playoffs. They didn’t acquire Muzzin so they could make the playoffs, they got him for the run.

I'd say it's not worth judging this trade as a whole for a few years, minimum. Let's see how it shakes out once we see the path Durzi takes and what becomes of the 1st we acquired.

I think we can assume it's very likely Grundstrom will be an NHL player and hold down a regular spot.

 

[KINGS17]

If Toronto wins a Stanley Cup in 2019 0r 2020 and Muzzin plays a significant role for the Leafs, then the trade is a win for them. That doesn't mean it can't be a win for the Kings as well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If Toronto wins a Stanley Cup in 2019 0r 2020 and Muzzin plays a significant role for the Leafs, then the trade is a win for them. That doesn't mean it can't be a win for the Kings as well.

Would be very similar to Richards for Schenn/Simmonds in that vein.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Good to see Grundstrom get back on the goal scoresheet. Created the turnover and was rewarded.

 

[Mats26]

Alot of doom and gloom on our board figure I'll shed some positive light on what is turning out to be a very good trade for us.

Durzi has been a real surprise. Kid paid his dues, worked his ass off and now he's making a solid impact already, albeit in a small sample size. Lets hope they don't mess this up like they did with Clague.
Bjornfot and Grundstrom are NHLers. Getting better every year. Potentially getting 3 solid NHLers is a big win for future asset management.

So at the time of the Muzzin trade, the D men that we were left with:

Doughty-Forbort
Martinez-Walker
Phaneuf-Fattenberg
LaDue

Now:
Anderson Doughty
Bjornfot Roy
Edler Durzi
Maatta - should of been Clague
Walker injured

This is progress and at least the D core is going in the right direction. With Faber\Clarke and hopefully a good solid LD, we are heading for a more mobile back end real soon.

We need a similar trajectory for our forwards now...where I think alot of the gloom is coming from.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Alot of doom and gloom on our board figure I'll shed some positive light on what is turning out to be a very good trade for us.

Durzi has been a real surprise. Kid paid his dues, worked his ass off and now he's making a solid impact already, albeit in a small sample size. Lets hope they don't mess this up like they did with Clague.
Bjornfot and Grundstrom are NHLers. Getting better every year. Potentially getting 3 solid NHLers is a big win for future asset management.

So at the time of the Muzzin trade, the D men that we were left with:

Doughty-Forbort
Martinez-Walker
Phaneuf-Fattenberg
LaDue

Now:
Anderson Doughty
Bjornfot Roy
Edler Durzi
Maatta - should of been Clague
Walker injured

This is progress and at least the D core is going in the right direction. With Faber\Clarke and hopefully a good solid LD, we are heading for a more mobile back end real soon.

We need a similar trajectory for our forwards now...where I think alot of the gloom is coming from.

I always liked what Gundstrom brings on the ice. It is unfortunate that TM doesn't give him consistent playing time. Gundy shouldn't be rotating in, he should be a regular in our lineup. The team needs that hustle and grit. I will same the same about JAD. He should have never started in Ontario. He was bringing it game in and out last year and gave the team a boost of energy. Time will tell about Durzi, but if the deal was just the 1st rounder, we did well with Bjornfot, who is a regular on our D for the long term.

 

[Mats26]

I always liked what Gundstrom brings on the ice. It is unfortunate that TM doesn't give him consistent playing time. Gundy shouldn't be rotating in, he should be a regular in our lineup. The team needs that hustle and grit. I will same the same about JAD. He should have never started in Ontario. He was bringing it game in and out last year and gave the team a boost of energy. Time will tell about Durzi, but if the deal was just the 1st rounder, we did well with Bjornfot, who is a regular on our D for the long term.

Agreed. What will it take...I mean why the stubbornness from TMac. We need to put Moore JAD and Grundy on a line again.

 

[lumbergh]

Alot of doom and gloom on our board figure I'll shed some positive light on what is turning out to be a very good trade for us.

Durzi has been a real surprise. Kid paid his dues, worked his ass off and now he's making a solid impact already, albeit in a small sample size. Lets hope they don't mess this up like they did with Clague.
Bjornfot and Grundstrom are NHLers. Getting better every year. Potentially getting 3 solid NHLers is a big win for future asset management.

So at the time of the Muzzin trade, the D men that we were left with:

Doughty-Forbort
Martinez-Walker
Phaneuf-Fattenberg
LaDue

Now:
Anderson Doughty
Bjornfot Roy
Edler Durzi
Maatta - should of been Clague
Walker injured

This is progress and at least the D core is going in the right direction. With Faber\Clarke and hopefully a good solid LD, we are heading for a more mobile back end real soon.

We need a similar trajectory for our forwards now...where I think alot of the gloom is coming from.

I don't totally disagree with you, Mats26, but I don't know that it's been a very good trade. If you look at it on both sides, Toronto got a big, physical, veteran defenseman who has effectively been one of their top two for the past three seasons. That's what they wanted, and that's what they went out and got.

If you look at it strictly from the Kings point of view, let's not forget what we lost in Jake Muzzin. Posters on this board are constantly harping on how soft the defense is, and that's partially a product of what we lost in Muzzin. He may not have dropped the gloves a lot, but he was big and pretty mean in the defensive zone. Posters on this board are also well aware of the how little offense the Kings get from the back end. Jake Muzzin is tied with Morgan Reilly for the most goals and points at even strength on the Maple Leafs defense corps.

Grundstrom is a decent player, but he's running out of runway, and I don't see how he's gonna take off.

Durzi is a power play specialist, which is great, but he's not exactly the all around defenseman that Muzzin is. Maybe he'll get better, but he'll never bring the physicality. Fingers crossed on whether Durzi sticks.

The trade really hinges on on Tobias Bjornfot. He's been a decent defenseman, but a stay-at-home sort who contributes next to nothing on the offensive side. I still have high hopes for him, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

You can look at it this way. Value-wise, does three bottom-6/bottom-3 players equal one top pairing D? If you do, fair trade. If and when Bjornfot develops into a top pairing D, that's a win.

I agree that change had to be made, but maybe we're undervaluing Jake Muzzin here.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't totally disagree with you, Mats26, but I don't know that it's been a very good trade. If you look at it on both sides, Toronto got a big, physical, veteran defenseman who has effectively been one of their top two for the past three seasons. That's what they wanted, and that's what they went out and got.

If you look at it strictly from the Kings point of view, let's not forget what we lost in Jake Muzzin. Posters on this board are constantly harping on how soft the defense is, and that's partially a product of what we lost in Muzzin. He may not have dropped the gloves a lot, but he was big and pretty mean in the defensive zone. Posters on this board are also well aware of the how little offense the Kings get from the back end. Jake Muzzin is tied with Morgan Reilly for the most goals and points at even strength on the Maple Leafs defense corps.

Grundstrom is a decent player, but he's running out of runway, and I don't see how he's gonna take off.

Durzi is a power play specialist, which is great, but he's not exactly the all around defenseman that Muzzin is. Maybe he'll get better, but he'll never bring the physicality. Fingers crossed on whether Durzi sticks.

The trade really hinges on on Tobias Bjornfot. He's been a decent defenseman, but a stay-at-home sort who contributes next to nothing on the offensive side. I still have high hopes for him, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

You can look at it this way. Value-wise, does three bottom-6/bottom-3 players equal one top pairing D? If you do, fair trade. If and when Bjornfot develops into a top pairing D, that's a win.

I agree that change had to be made, but maybe we're undervaluing Jake Muzzin here.

This trade is about what those three assets are doing for us in 2025, not 2020. For TO, it's what Muzzin is doing now.

 

[King'sPawn]

This trade is about what those three assets are doing for us in 2025, not 2020. For TO, it's what Muzzin is doing now.

Yup. One thing that always needs to be taken into consideration with trades: when is each participant in a trade expecting to reap the rewards of the trade.

 

[lumbergh]

This trade is about what those three assets are doing for us in 2025, not 2020. For TO, it's what Muzzin is doing now.

Woah! A trade takes 6 years to pay dividends?! You will be the most patient owner in history one day, RJ.

 

[tkb81]

I don't totally disagree with you, Mats26, but I don't know that it's been a very good trade. If you look at it on both sides, Toronto got a big, physical, veteran defenseman who has effectively been one of their top two for the past three seasons. That's what they wanted, and that's what they went out and got.

If you look at it strictly from the Kings point of view, let's not forget what we lost in Jake Muzzin. Posters on this board are constantly harping on how soft the defense is, and that's partially a product of what we lost in Muzzin. He may not have dropped the gloves a lot, but he was big and pretty mean in the defensive zone. Posters on this board are also well aware of the how little offense the Kings get from the back end. Jake Muzzin is tied with Morgan Reilly for the most goals and points at even strength on the Maple Leafs defense corps.

Grundstrom is a decent player, but he's running out of runway, and I don't see how he's gonna take off.

Durzi is a power play specialist, which is great, but he's not exactly the all around defenseman that Muzzin is. Maybe he'll get better, but he'll never bring the physicality. Fingers crossed on whether Durzi sticks.

The trade really hinges on on Tobias Bjornfot. He's been a decent defenseman, but a stay-at-home sort who contributes next to nothing on the offensive side. I still have high hopes for him, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

You can look at it this way. Value-wise, does three bottom-6/bottom-3 players equal one top pairing D? If you do, fair trade. If and when Bjornfot develops into a top pairing D, that's a win.

I agree that change had to be made, but maybe we're undervaluing Jake Muzzin here.

I sure miss Muzz, but he is not a top pairing guy ... hes a top pairing guy in TO because of depth ... also you have to factor in could we have afforded him ... Cap space does factor in to everything

 

[Fishhead]

It took Colorado 4 years to win a cup after that Lindros trade. Since Muzzin is pretty much a Lindros equivalent, we should be hoisting the cup in 2 short years.

 

[Lt Dan]

Woah! A trade takes 6 years to pay dividends?! You will be the most patient owner in history one day, RJ.

With picks and prospects...yes

 

[AbsentMojo]

I don't totally disagree with you, Mats26, but I don't know that it's been a very good trade. If you look at it on both sides, Toronto got a big, physical, veteran defenseman who has effectively been one of their top two for the past three seasons. That's what they wanted, and that's what they went out and got.

If you look at it strictly from the Kings point of view, let's not forget what we lost in Jake Muzzin. Posters on this board are constantly harping on how soft the defense is, and that's partially a product of what we lost in Muzzin. He may not have dropped the gloves a lot, but he was big and pretty mean in the defensive zone. Posters on this board are also well aware of the how little offense the Kings get from the back end. Jake Muzzin is tied with Morgan Reilly for the most goals and points at even strength on the Maple Leafs defense corps.

Grundstrom is a decent player, but he's running out of runway, and I don't see how he's gonna take off.

Durzi is a power play specialist, which is great, but he's not exactly the all around defenseman that Muzzin is. Maybe he'll get better, but he'll never bring the physicality. Fingers crossed on whether Durzi sticks.

The trade really hinges on on Tobias Bjornfot. He's been a decent defenseman, but a stay-at-home sort who contributes next to nothing on the offensive side. I still have high hopes for him, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

You can look at it this way. Value-wise, does three bottom-6/bottom-3 players equal one top pairing D? If you do, fair trade. If and when Bjornfot develops into a top pairing D, that's a win.

I agree that change had to be made, but maybe we're undervaluing Jake Muzzin here.

That may be true. But, also need to factor in that Muzzin was in the last few months of his contract - so given that, getting 3 viable assets w varying degrees of potential (including a 1st).. has to be considered a win in and of itself e.g. as compared to what the isles got for Tavares

 

[Lt Dan]

So Grundstrom , Durzi and Bjornfot for Muzzin on an expiring contract. I'd do it again

 

[YP44]

So Grundstrom , Durzi and Bjornfot for Muzzin on an expiring contract. I'd do it again

Didn't Muzzin have the season he was dealt plus one more year after left?

Still was a good haul. Makes me shake my head more at the Carter deal, especially with the retention.

 

[Lt Dan]

Didn't Muzzin have the season he was dealt plus one more year after left?

Still was a good haul. Makes me shake my head more at the Carter deal, especially with the retention.

Yes

You are correct

Feb 24, 2020		Toronto Maple Leafs | signed D Jake Muzzin to a four-year, $22.5 million contract extension.
Jan 27, 2020	Activated	Toronto Maple Leafs | activated D Jake Muzzin from injured reserve.
Jan 25, 2020	Recalled	Toronto Maple Leafs | recalled D Jake Muzzin from Toronto (AHL).
Jan 23, 2020	Assigned	Toronto Maple Leafs | loaned D Jake Muzzin to Toronto (AHL) on a conditioning assignment.
Jan 12, 2020	Injured	Toronto Maple Leafs | placed D Jake Muzzin on IR.
Jan 28, 2019	Trade	Toronto Maple Leafs | acquired D Jake Muzzin from the Los Angeles Kings for RW Carl Grundstrom, the rights to D Sean Durzi and a 2019 first-round draft pick.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Woah! A trade takes 6 years to pay dividends?! You will be the most patient owner in history one day, RJ.

I mean it's not Niewyndyk - for - Iginla, but sort of like Schenn/Simmonds for Richards, each team is measuring value in different ways and different time periods, you're trying to offset a current value for a future value in this case.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

So Grundstrom , Durzi and Bjornfot for Muzzin on an expiring contract. I'd do it again

And consider that 3 months ago, most everyone had the opinion that Sean Durzi would never play in the NHL. I'd say that 3 months from now, he may become a known name in the NHL. I was not a believer after his first game - pretty shaky on D. But the last few, he's doing better and most all first year defensemen have some shaky moments. His skating, confidence and poise with the puck and decision making on offense, is looking very promising. He's making the powerplay
better, already.

He's not soft, either. Someone said he hopefully can be Chris Chelios light. Now that's maybe a stretch, but I like that. Let's see how he's doing, 3 months from now. Or next year.

Carl Grundstrom was worth a shot and had a few good seasons in SHL and 1 in the AHL. Can skate, hit, decent shot, ok hands...and can play the boards and good in front of the net. I don't think they expected him to be top 6. He's done pretty well and when with the Reign, was the best player there some nights. I think he's done ok and could do more, with a bigger role. He would score some on PP2, if he was by the net. The thing is, a good bottom 6 can win you some games. The Kings need a better bottom 6 and get rid of the Wagner's, Luff's, etc and upgrade there. Lemieux, Moore and Grundstrom are upgrades there. I always was jealous of teams like Tampa Bay, that could ice 12
good forwards every night that could play NHL hockey. Makes a difference. I bet Carl could make most of the NHL teams 4th line.

Bjornfot. He's only 20. I don't know how you could expect any more from him, at age 20. He's better than Roy or Walker. Roy is already losing his game that he had, pre-concussed.
That sucks. Bjornfot is not a finished product and he will put up some offense. Yawney is pushing him and he's responding. Has activated more and getting some good shots
and making some plays....he gets beat less than Anderson.