Post-Game Talk: Mutombo

[Rongomania]

Sweet point we earned. That goalie was hot.

On a lighter note, I was eating pasta somewhere early in the first period with the radio game on and Dave Maloney referred to Laf/troch/bread as: "An electric threesome." Met by silence in the booth there and I nearly spit out all of my food with laughter.

 

[will1066]

Laf has been very good but our 2 best forwards have been Panarin and Trochek, hands down. Carrying the team, especially when the wonder twins decide to take a night off (which is often)

Trocheck is team MVP so far, imo.

 

[ReddestRum]

Also are we just looking for something to complain about in regards to laf. He’s arguably been our 2nd best forward this year. Does he still have things to work on? Absolutely. But he’s not the reason we lost last night.

2nd best forward?

Doubt.

 

[TGWL]

1 line going is just not enough.
Brain fart defense is happening too much
Playing with the puck needs to stop. This isn't OT with a ton of space. They're getting themselves in trouble by bring the puck back too many times with forecheckers near them.
Goaltending needs to be consistent through-out the game. Making some big saves early and then being meh or ok the rest of the game is not helping.

2nd best forward?

Doubt.

Trocheck is hands down the teams 2nd best player this season.
There's Panarin,
Then there's Trocheck
Then there's a big gap.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I cannot for the life of me figure this team. We're either legitimate Cup contenders or totally fraudulent. I feel like it could go either way at this point-like I'd feel the same if we won the President's trophy or fell out of the tournament completely.

I'd feel much better if Zib and Kreids could generate ANY scoring punch at all at 5 v 5.

(As far as moves go let's bring in Stamkos if TB falls completely out of the picture).

They can be world beaters during the regular season -- but the second season is a whole different ballgame and (IMO) they aren't built for the playoffs.

 

[ncdoc]

This is why I frown upon negativity here but I like to welcome all discussions whether it’s negative or positive.

I feel good about this team, but a lot of fans are trying to fix things and there really is not much to fix except a slot here and there.

Agreed. Love the discussion but the negativity is beyond reprehensible. Lots to fix? Yes. Do other teams have the same? Yes. Develop what we have. Who knows what is going on with Fox? Recovering? Plying poorly? We are not there unless the organization releases info, which they won't. Enjoy the ride, we have a great team.

 

[ReddestRum]

1 line going is just not enough.
Brain fart defense is happening too much
Playing with the puck needs to stop. This isn't OT with a ton of space. They're getting themselves in trouble by bring the puck back too many times with forecheckers near them.
Goaltending needs to be consistent through-out the game. Making some big saves early and then being meh or ok the rest of the game is not helping.


Trocheck is hands down the teams 2nd best player this season.
There's Panarin,
Then there's Trocheck
Then there's a big gap.

Yup.

And even if Zibs and Kreider seem invisible to a great many of the fanbase, both are a few points away from 40 points right behind Panarin and Tro.

Laf is most definitely playing much better this season than his previous, but he's only still 6 points ahead of his production from last year after being bumped up to the Top 6 with who I consider #1 and #2 in terms of players on this team.

 

[huerter]

On the postgame show, Gallo and a caller both agreed that we are the best team in the East. We can play any style. No mention of line combos that need tweaking.

 

[kovazub94]

You hate yet another coach.

Psst.

They matter somewhere between very little and not at all.

Someday you will accept that as truth.

He thinks every coach should try every one of his ideas just because or just in case, and if it doesn’t happen - said coach is (yet another) idiot and should gone.

 

[Profet]

Othmann didn't get time because he was playing poorly, pretty simple.
Miller, in particular, was as horrific. Absolutely terrible.
I'm really not sure what was going on last night with all of the turnovers. They were fortunate to get a point out of it.

Uh what?

Othmann barely played even in the first.

Let's not go down the revisionist history path. It's not like Othmann was playing and then he was shut down.

He just didn't play... At all. This wasn't a case of his minutes disappearing in the second or the third period because of some poor play in the first period.

He had glowing praise from Lavi in the previous games' post game presser... And then he was just shut down this game.

I don't get it.

 

[Machinehead]

You hate yet another coach.

Psst.

They matter somewhere between very little and not at all.

Someday you will accept that as truth.

They matter a lot when they use (at worst) the third best defenseman in the world as their #2 D.

This isn't something nebulous like "systems." It's objectively using a Norris winner on your second pair in minutes and seconds that we can count.

He thinks every coach should try every one of his ideas just because or just in case, and if it doesn’t happen - said coach is (yet another) idiot and should gone.

Yes, playing Adam Fox the most minutes out of our defensemen is one of my crazy ideas.

 

[Machinehead]

The rangers are that team.

I love how we keep trying to tell ourselves we're just stuck with Trouba and waiting for some dumb team to take his contract.

We play him more than Adam Fox. The Rangers think Trouba is a star.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, this guy sucks!!!

I say "play Adam Fox more" and I'm a crackpot but you talk about how Kreider is terrible and it's as if you said the jerseys are blue.

I will say this, he's starting to feed into the trend that almost all of our forwards are ass at defense. I mean fair enough, he's about to be 33, and he's still better than most of them.

We have a couple of forwards who are good at defense but we play them all together because BOTTOM SIX(!!!!) which does nothing to help the other lines.

Also, maybe our forwards would have better defensive results if Trouba didn't play 20 5v5 minutes. Just something to think about.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I love how we keep trying to tell ourselves we're just stuck with Trouba and waiting for some dumb team to take his contract.

We play him more than Adam Fox. The Rangers think Trouba is a star.

Yeah but he launched a piece of plastic at the boards once

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Some of you guys are off your rockers. I see people bitching about anything and everything when they lose.

If Montreal’s goalie doesn’t play out of his mind we win the game and move on. But some on here are acting like the sky is falling. Take a f***ing Xanax or something holy shit.

Also are we just looking for something to complain about in regards to laf. He’s arguably been our 2nd best forward this year. Does he still have things to work on? Absolutely. But he’s not the reason we lost last night.

Only thing i disagree with is that our own zone was a disaster last night, our offense was fine, just the needless problems in our own end last night made this game a loss instead of a 3-1 win. Truth be told it could have been 5 or 6-3 for them with the posts they hit. Lafreniere i agree has been as good as anyone up front not named Panarin.

 

[ReddestRum]

@Machinehead What are Miller's and Trouba's stats?

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead What are Miller's and Trouba's stats?

Their expected numbers are bad but their goal differential is actually really good, which is probably why they're getting used so much. They're +11 at 5v5 despite a 47% xGF.

What annoys me about the pair is the perception that their a defensive pair and their deployment as such. Both teams are pretty much exchanging grade A chances up and down the ice when Miller and Trouba are on the ice.

Fox and Lindgren are the opposite. Their defensive metrics are very good but we have 7 5v5 goals the entire year with 55-23 on the ice versus 29 goals for 79-8.

I think this has to do with a couple of things. First of all, Trouba is probably spending more time with 10-16-13, who are our most productive line and by far our top line by TOI. Trouba is always out there with our de facto, de jure, de everything first line because TROUBA IS LAVIOLETTE'S #1D BY TOI!!!! The concept of that probably annoys me more than the results. People will say it's because Fox is injured. Hogwash. It's because Trouba is 6'3" and physical. Have you watched hockey before? Of course an idiot coach thinks Trouba is better at defense.

Beyond that, Fox and Lindgren have their own problems. Chief among them is that Lindgren is not an NHL player in the offensive zone.

So to summarize:

-We have a pair that's terrible at defense and being used as a shutdown pair
-We have a pair that's terrible at offense and has one of the worst offensive players in the NHL, and we're deploying them to do offense.
-We have MIller and Trouba who are good at offense and suck at defense and they're playing together (in Miller's case, that's probably because of his partner).
-We have Lindgren and Fox who are terrible at offense and elite at defense and they're playing together (in Fox's case, that's definitely because of his partner).

Since people don't like when I yell, I'm politely suggesting we do something to mix up the D pairs because neither of these make any sense, and also let's maybe get rid of the mind-numbing perception on the bench that Trouba is better than Fox so we can ride Fox in the playoffs.

I absolutely 100% wholeheartedly believe that Laviolette sees Trouba and Fox as 1A/1B and Trouba as a superior defensive player. Again, that he thinks that bothers me more than the actual results. If he thinks that, what else is he capable of thinking?

 

[Machinehead]

Also I understand the logic people will come up with of giving Trouba heavy usage to "free up" Fox.

That's all fine and dandy except PriceIsRightLosingHorn.mp4 because Fox's 5v5 production has cratered.

When you're on the second pair, (and yes, Fox is on this team's second pair and I am inconsolably annoyed by that) you spend a bit more time with Bonino and a bit less time with Panarin.

Quality of Teammates is undefeated against Quality of Competition.

 

[will1066]

I can feel the board turning on Laviolette with his deployment decisions and the line combinations and we're approaching Game #40. After we declared Laviolette a breath of fresh air at the beginning and who actually knows to coach. Now, nearing the mid season mark, he doesn't know how to coach. Did this with Gallant. Different year, same shit.

How about this? Nut up and play responsibly. Doesn't matter which pair it is. They're all bleeding chances against with unforced errors and poor puck decisions and people jumping the farm from structure.

The team as a whole plays a high risk style in the name of creativity and the royal road.

 

[ReddestRum]

Their expected numbers are bad but their goal differential is actually really good, which is probably why they're getting used so much. They're +11 at 5v5 despite a 47% xGF.

What annoys me about the pair is the perception that their a defensive pair and their deployment as such. Both teams are pretty much exchanging grade A chances up and down the ice when Miller and Trouba are on the ice.

Fox and Lindgren are the opposite. Their defensive metrics are very good but we have 7 5v5 goals the entire year with 55-23 on the ice versus 29 goals for 79-8.

I think this has to do with a couple of things. First of all, Trouba is probably spending more time with 10-16-13, who are our most productive line and by far our top line by TOI. Trouba is always out there with our de facto, de jure, de everything first line because TROUBA IS LAVIOLETTE'S #1D BY TOI!!!! The concept of that probably annoys me more than the results. People will say it's because Fox is injured. Hogwash. It's because Trouba is 6'3" and physical. Have you watched hockey before? Of course an idiot coach thinks Trouba is better at defense.

Beyond that, Fox and Lindgren have their own problems. Chief among them is that Lindgren is not an NHL player in the offensive zone.

So to summarize:

-We have a pair that's terrible at defense and being used as a shutdown pair
-We have a pair that's terrible at offense and has one of the worst offensive players in the NHL, and we're deploying them to do offense.
-We have MIller and Trouba who are good at offense and suck at defense and they're playing together (in Miller's case, that's probably because of his partner).
-We have Lindgren and Fox who are terrible at offense and elite at defense and they're playing together (in Fox's case, that's definitely because of his partner).

Since people don't like when I yell, I'm politely suggesting we do something to mix up the D pairs because neither of these make any sense, and also let's maybe get rid of the mind-numbing perception on the bench that Trouba is better than Fox so we can ride Fox in the playoffs.

I absolutely 100% wholeheartedly believe that Laviolette sees Trouba and Fox as 1A/1B and Trouba as a superior defensive player. Again, that he thinks that bothers me more than the actual results. If he thinks that, what else is he capable of thinking?

I got you! Appreciate the assessment. What I think most people can agree on is that changes need to be made, up front and in the back. Lavi has made on the fly adjustments to lines during games, but he seems to go right back to the original lines at the start of next game.

Despite our strong start at the beginning of the season, which is the reason for us being where we are in the standings, I believe we've had a pretty mid Dec/Jan (I don't have the wins/loss stats right now, but it seems we're periodically dropping more games than before). I wonder with us being where we are makes him not be in a rush to change what obviously needs changing.

 

[Machinehead]

Here's another one while I'm rolling. Paging @GoAwayPanarin because he'll love this one.

Fox and Lindgren have played 370 5v5 minutes together this year, during which the Rangers have scored seven goals.

Fox has played 87 5v5 minutes this year without Lindgren, during which the Rangers have scored (get ready for this one!) seven goals.

 

[Machinehead]

I can feel the board turning on Laviolette with his deployment decisions and the line combinations and we're approaching Game #40. After we declared Laviolette a breath of fresh air at the beginning and who actually knows to coach. Now, nearing the mid season mark, he doesn't know how to coach. Did this with Gallant. Different year, same shit.

How about this? Nut up and play responsibly. Doesn't matter which pair it is. They're all bleeding chances against with unforced errors and poor puck decisions and people jumping the farm from structure.

The team as a whole plays a high risk style in the name of creativity and the royal road.

Laviolette has been mostly less annoying than Gallant.

Playing Trouba as the 1D and Fox as the 2D is instantly fireable and he really needs to f***ing not.

One coach was a moron with deployment, and the other is mostly fine but he's doing one thing that could singehandedly sink the team that a monkey wouldn't do.

Surely you can see the distinction.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, as much as we've praised Laviolette for some of his different looks at forward, he's rolling out the same ass defense Gallant did.

 

[Rangers in 7]

2nd best forward?

Doubt.

Can always count on you to hate laf……

Laf has been very good but our 2 best forwards have been Panarin and Trochek, hands down. Carrying the team, especially when the wonder twins decide to take a night off (which is often)

I’d argue laf has been as good as trocheck has been this year. Not a knock on tro at all either btw

 

[Rangers in 7]

Only thing i disagree with is that our own zone was a disaster last night, our offense was fine, just the needless problems in our own end last night made this game a loss instead of a 3-1 win. Truth be told it could have been 5 or 6-3 for them with the posts they hit. Lafreniere i agree has been as good as anyone up front not named Panarin.

Agreed D zone was atrocious tonight but a 5-3 or 6-3 win for us still is a win. I’d argue without the goalie performance against us we win that game pretty easily