Post-Game Talk: Mutombo

[Machinehead]

Lafreniere has been good but you can conclude that he has not been our second best forward with very little work.

I know it's cool to hate Kreider for no reason, but what does Lafreniere do better than Kreider right now?

 

[Rangers in 7]

https://twitter.com/EliteGil/status/1743808942843556177

Facts lol

 

[Rangers in 7]

Lafreniere has been good but you can conclude that he has not been our second best forward with very little work.

I know it's cool to hate Kreider for no reason, but what does Lafreniere do better than Kreider right now?

Pass, put up points at even strength, look engaged? Would you like me to go on?

Kreider is what he is. Amazing on the PP, great PK’er. He’s been atrocious 5 on 5, same goes for zibs

 

[Machinehead]

Pass, put up points at even strength, look engaged? Would you like me to go on?

Kreider is what he is. Amazing on the PP, great PK’er. He’s been atrocious 5 on 5, same goes for zibs

No.

Don't assess 5v5 play if you're not even going to look up how many points people have.

 

[Rangers in 7]

No.

Don't assess 5v5 play if you're not even going to look up how many points people have.

Zib
PP points: 19
ES: 17

Kreider
PP: 12
ES: 20

Laf
PP: 4
ES: 19

Not to mention I actually watch the games, kreider has been ass at ES

I looked it up for you….they both have been terrible this season when not on the PP

 

[Machinehead]

The only guys scoring at a better 5v5 rate than Kreider are Panarin, Trocheck, and of course Jimmy Vesey who's on a mission to score 20 even strength goals on the third and fourth line and we love him for it. He's also still a much better defender despite having to carry Zibanejad who is overrated at it and Wheeler who literally always sucked at it.

Zibanejad is a guy who legitimately goes in and out, and has games (not all of them, but they happen) where he's not a top nine player at 5v5.

I think there's a tendency to automatically lump him and Kreider together as if they're the Sedin twins or part of the borg. They're not. They're very different players.

Zib
PP points: 19
ES: 17

Kreider
PP: 12
ES: 20

Laf
PP: 4
ES: 19

Not to mention I actually watch the games, kreider has been ass at ES

I looked it up for you….they both have been terrible this season when not on the PP

20 is bigger than 19.

 

[Rangers in 7]

The only guys scoring at a better 5v5 rate than Kreider are Panarin, Trocheck, and of course Jimmy Vesey who's on a mission to score 20 even strength goals on the third and fourth line and we love him for it. He's also still a much better defender despite having to carry Zibanejad who is overrated at it and Wheeler who literally always sucked at it.

Zibanejad is a guy who legitimately goes in and out, and has games (not all of them, but they happen) where he's not a top nine player at 5v5.

I think there's a tendency to automatically lump him and Kreider together as if they're the Sedin twins or part of the borg. They're not. They're very different players.

20 is bigger than 19.

If you think kreider has been better then laf this season so far then I don’t know what to tell you other then to start watching the games with your eyes open

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider being a standout player on the powerplay is actually a recent development. It started a couple of years ago when the NHL had the bright idea to begin enforcing that cross-checking is illegal.

He's always been a play-driver and producer at even strength, and still is.

 

[Machinehead]

If you think kreider has been better then laf this season so far then I don’t know what to tell you other then to start watching the games with your eyes open

"Start watching the games" is a submission.

Remember that 20 is bigger than 19 and try to argue with me again after you've practiced.

 

[Machinehead]

When Kreider is on the ice, the Rangers have scored a team-leading 58% of the goals. They hover around 50% when Zibanejad is on the ice. They play together a lot and to produce an 8% difference, you can imagine how they diverge when they don't play together.

I think they might actually be two different people. Idk. The evidence is mounting.

(Lafreniere is in the red but bagging on Lafreniere was not the point of this conversation.)

 

[Rangers in 7]

"Start watching the games" is a submission.

Remember that 20 is bigger than 19 and try to argue with me again after you've practiced.

Like I said….watch the games without your tinted kreider glasses.

You can’t honestly tell me you watch games and think kreider has been that good this year

 

[ReddestRum]

Can always count on you to hate laf……


I’d argue laf has been as good as trocheck has been this year. Not a knock on tro at all either btw

Not agreeing that Laf is our #2 forward right now is hate??

 

[Rangers in 7]

When Kreider is on the ice, the Rangers have scored a team-leading 58% of the goals. They hover around 50% when Zibanejad is on the ice. They play together a lot and to produce an 8% difference, you can imagine how they diverge when they don't play together.

I think they might actually be two different people. Idk. The evidence is mounting.

(Lafreniere is in the red but bagging on Lafreniere was not the point of this conversation.)

Take the PP numbers out….

Not agreeing that Laf is our #2 forward right now is hate??

Nah you just never post unless it’s to shit on our own players

 

[Machinehead]

Take the PP numbers out….


Nah you just never post unless it’s to shit on our own players

That is with the powerplay numbers out

 

[Fitzy]

That is with the powerplay numbers out

The extra level of stupidity here is that those numbers would be crazy good if we included PP

 

[Machinehead]

The extra level of stupidity here is that those numbers would be crazy good if we included PP

Oh, we can! It's 68.75%. That's just fun.

Kreider is having a normal one. People continue to either be ok with who he is or not for whatever reason.

Me, personally, I like when the Rangers outscore their opponent, outshoot their opponent, and have guys who score 40 goals. That's just my taste.

I've noticed over the years that people have a visceral reaction to missed chances. It can be good or bad depending on the player and the narrative surrounding him. If Laf or Kakko hit a few posts, it's "oh poor them." If somebody like Brodzinski that nobody cares about does it, it's "see this is why he sucks."
Kreider pretty sustainably shoots around 19% over the last few years. He never gets the "if that chance went in, his numbers would look better" brownie points.

It's not his fault he shoots from where you can't miss. If most guys could, they would.

 

[Rangers in 7]

That is with the powerplay numbers out

I take the numbers back, I was trying to calculate in my head while putting my daughter to sleep

At 5 v 5 this season
Laf: 18 points
Kreider: 15 points

Expected goals
Laf: 8.8
Kreider: 7.3

Corsi
Laf: 57%
Kreider: 51%

On ice goal % you’ve got me there, and kreider at 58 is impressive, surprised it’s higher then panarin who is only at 53

I’d still say laf has had a better season this year

Side note, all situations fox is at 70 percent….thats insane

 

[Machinehead]

I take the numbers back, I was trying to calculate in my head while putting my daughter to sleep

At 5 v 5 this season
Laf: 18 points
Kreider: 15 points

Expected goals
Laf: 8.8
Kreider: 7.3

Corsi
Laf: 57%
Kreider: 51%

On ice goal % you’ve got me there, and kreider at 58 is impressive, surprised it’s higher then panarin who is only at 53

I’d still say laf has had a better season this year

Side note, all situations fox is at 70 percent….thats insane

Fine, I'm sorry I called you a doughnut.

There's one huge piece of evidence missing from all of this.

Lafreniere isn't playing with this:

Zibanejad got hot right after Wheeler moved up to that line so we told ourselves it was fine. I was guilty of it also.

As the games are going by, it's becoming more and more apparent what a disaster it is.

Regardless, Zibanejad is streaky and I think Kreider gets lumped into that because they're such a meme. It becomes even worse when their RW probably isn't an NHL player anymore.

The line sucks, or at the very least, has a lot of games where they suck. Nothing about Kreider's resume as a 5v5 monster suggests that it's his fault.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Fine, I'm sorry I called you a doughnut.

There's one huge piece of evidence missing from all of this.

Lafreniere isn't playing with this:

View attachment 798496

Zibanejad got hot right after Wheeler moved up to that line so we told ourselves it was fine. I was guilty of it also.

As the games are going by, it's becoming more and more apparent what a disaster it is.

Regardless, Zibanejad is streaky and I think Kreider gets lumped into that because they're such a meme. It becomes even worse when their RW probably isn't an NHL player anymore.

The line sucks, or at the very least, has a lot of games where they suck. Nothing about Kreider's resume as a 5v5 monster suggests that it's his fault.

I agree wheeler is ass

For whatever reason I can’t get past the fact that both those two look terrible at ES. Maybe it’s the eye test but I’ve played hockey for a long time and see that they look disengaged and look like crap out there

I accept you taking back calling me a doughnut. Gordon Ramsey is the man though

 

[Machinehead]

I agree wheeler is ass

For whatever reason I can’t get past the fact that both those two look terrible at ES. Maybe it’s the eye test but I’ve played hockey for a long time and see that they look disengaged and look like crap out there

I accept you taking back calling me a doughnut. Gordon Ramsey is the man though

No, it totally tracks with the eye test. I just think it's because they're playing 4v5 and it sucks.

I've never seen a team or line not able to produce offense, not able to defend, not able to sustain possession, not able to do anything and I think to myself "but at least they look engaged."

And they do have games like that because Wheeler is always ass and Zibanejad is sometimes ass. Last night, the two of them were assing at the same time.

 

[Rangers in 7]

No, it totally tracks with the eye test. I just think it's because they're playing 4v5 and it sucks.

I've never seen a team or line not able to produce offense, not able to defend, not able to sustain possession, not able to do anything and I think to myself "but at least they look engaged."

And they do have games like that because Wheeler is always ass and Zibanejad is sometimes ass. Last night, the two of them were assing at the same time.

Their lack of sustained pressure and possession is the biggest problem and I don’t think its just wheeler

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Zib is definitely a bigger culprit than Kreider, although Kreider does have is handful of "Invisible Chris" games. They don't give up much tho which is good i guess.

 

[huerter]

@Machinehead has been relatively quiet in this thread.

Anyway, thought it was interesting that in this Forsberg move compilation vid only one of the players is a righty shooter. Geometry. Zib should retire the move.

 

[huerter]

 

[egelband]

Agreed. Love the discussion but the negativity is beyond reprehensible. Lots to fix? Yes. Do other teams have the same? Yes. Develop what we have. Who knows what is going on with Fox? Recovering? Plying poorly? We are not there unless the organization releases info, which they won't. Enjoy the ride, we have a great team.

I want to write this every time I check in but I don’t have the energy. Thank you.