GDT: Muller's 48th Birthday Extravaganza--Habs @ Canes 2/8 6PM

[RodTheBawd]

I was just poking fun because you said the goalie's responsibility is the puck carrier and in that instance, the puck carrier put it by him (I was being facetious). I don't think Dobby gets enough credit for the number of odd number chances he stops. He makes a lot of those stops look pedestrian (a la Ward in his prime). I don't think he's even let up one breakaway goal this year.

The overall criticism of the Canes for years has been lack of toughness and (veteran) leadership. I think Malhotra and to a lesser extent Komi and Dvorak bring the latter, but we also traded away the one guy that had always brought both. I don't that will ever change during the EStaal era.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Dobby was about as out of position as I've ever seen a goalie on that 4th goal.

This game was tough to watch for me. I was in different seats last night and it seemed almost like both teams were playing not to get the guys hurt with the Olympics and a break coming up. Other than Pacioretty driving the net, Komi boarding that guy, and a few token hits, there wasn't a whole lot of physical and aggressive play. Price is a very good goalie, but I was expecting the Canes to have their foot on the gas tonight as they needed this win, but it just wasn't there.

Just makes this upcoming road trip all the more important. A week or two ago, someone posted that the Canes had one of the easier schedules left before the break, and it sucks that they didn't capitalize on it.

 

[FeedDaPuck]

I was just poking fun because you said the goalie's responsibility is the puck carrier and in that instance, the puck carrier put it by him (I was being facetious). I don't think Dobby gets enough credit for the number of odd number chances he stops. He makes a lot of those stops look pedestrian (a la Ward in his prime). I don't think he's even let up one breakaway goal this year.

The overall criticism of the Canes for years has been lack of toughness and (veteran) leadership. I think Malhotra and to a lesser extent Komi and Dvorak bring the latter, but we also traded away the one guy that had always brought both. I don't that will ever change during the EStaal era.

I know you were but still, while it was a stoppable shot, the pass to Desharnais (I think) was still allowed by the dman. Dobby has been playing the breakaways rather well, and that is surprising of itself: he was never great in shootouts. It just seems that he is finally letting the play come to him and reacting to it instead of forcing it. (That is kind of funny given what he does with his stick and skating – obviously he is forcing it there)

What's up with EStaal?

 

[What the Faulk]

Well, that caught me off guard. How sweet!

Also, Angelina = Arya?

Oh man, how did I not notice this? Except [spoil]Ned still has his head![/spoil]

I think Khudobin gave them a chance to win last night, and that's really all you can ask of him. Yeah his stick work was awful, but he didn't really have a chance on any of the goals. The 2nd went off Ryan White who had time to locate it, settle it, deke, and score.

To draw from the other thread, these are the lines I'd roll after the break:

Skinner // Eric // Lindholm -- Pure offense. Goes against easier competition. High O-Zone starts. Eric has typically gotten the toughest matchups, and it's only sort of worked out. Good mix of everything on this line, and there was some magic between Skinner and Eric earlier this year, and definitely some between Skinner and Lindholm.

Gerbe // Jordan // Semin -- Calling this a "shut down" line isn't accurate because they're capable of scoring too. Jordan and Semin can cycle like no one else, and Gerbe plays much bigger than his size. Gerbe and Jordan have worked well together this year and Semin can "shut down" the other team by just skating in circles for 45 seconds.

Tlusty // Nash // Ruutu -- This bumps Nash back to the 3rd line, but right now, he's earned it. And Malhotra has been drowning lately, not looking like himself. Ruutu has been passing the puck well lately, and he and Nash have been among the best players over the last several. Tlusty gets back to easier competition, and hopefully finds his game.

Bowman // Malhotra // Dwyer -- Typical 4th line, but fairly defensively responsible. Not big, but Malhotra can hit, and Dwyer/Bowman provide a bit of speed. They'll give you reliable minutes. Can take defensive zone draws and still go against roughly the same competition they are now.

Each top 9 line has a "playmaker" (Lindholm, Semin, Ruutu), a "grinder" (Staals, Tlusty), and a "scorer" (Skinner, Gerbe, Nash). Some chemistry is preserved while optimizing talent, as well as slotting players correctly according to this season (with the exception of Lindholm). And they all have a little bit of speed. Short of making a trade, I feel like this gives them the best chance to win.

 

[Elsker]

I think what we're seeing with Harrison is linked to his no longer being a "babysitter" for a young offensive-minded partner. His was at peak performance when he was essentially the #6 guy, riding shotgun to a McBain, Faulk or Murphy. In that role he could comfortably play a positional game and wait for opportunities to use that big slapshot. There was little downside for him, since he was rarely out of position and rarely had to worry about carrying the puck.

This season he's been the #5 guy, primarily tasked with carrying one of Bellemore or Komisarek -- both of whom have the offensive game of an ECHL'er. That makes Harrison the primary puck-carrier on his pairing, which is way outside his comfort zone, and often leaves him scrambling to cover for turnovers. He's not cut out for this role.

I entirely agree with this assessment. He's a #6/#7 D-man, at best, now in a #5 role for which he just does not have the skill package to execute.

Not his fault. Just one of the many micro-overslotting examples our D has all over the place. Players just one notch out of their sweet spot.

However, at least we have him out of the top-4 role he was being pressed into last season. We're trending in the right direction in over-slotting.

 

[What the Faulk]

May as well offer my thoughts on the defense too.

Sekera // Faulk -- For better or worse, this pairing isn't going to change. They haven't been as dominant as they were earlier in the year, but they just work together. Though if one has a bad game, the other struggles to compensate. It's really all or nothing with them, and lately there's been too many off games. Both are strong number twos, but not true number ones. That's okayish.

Hainsey // Bellemore -- Probably the best middle pairing the team has had in years. Bellemore may be slotted a little high, but again, they work together. They've gotten tough assignments and have excelled, and have been better than Faulk/Sekera on the PK. Neither can handle the puck all that well, and controlled breakouts are still rare, but they've been pretty defensively responsible. Bellemore almost cheats backwards while in the offensive zone, but he rarely gets beat, so it's a tradeoff.

Harrison // Liles -- Here is where we start seeing problems. Both play the left side, so somebody is going to have to play out of position. And they aren't that great on their natural side to begin with. Liles can be an adventure sometimes with his pinches, and Harrison isn't a good enough skater to compensate. Still, most nights that top four is so solid, this really is a leftover pairing. They'll get limited minutes, and in their limited time together (~25 this year), they played well. Going for a Harrison/McBain thing here.

I wonder if Liles // Komisarek would be any better. Maybe we should ask Toronto. (Looking it up. No, in 300+ minutes they were not good together).

Murphy not being ready really hurt them, and Liles playing a "stacked" side makes him a tough fit. Another RHD would be great.

 

[FeedDaPuck]

I think what we're seeing with Harrison is linked to his no longer being a "babysitter" for a young offensive-minded partner. His was at peak performance when he was essentially the #6 guy, riding shotgun to a McBain, Faulk or Murphy. In that role he could comfortably play a positional game and wait for opportunities to use that big slapshot. There was little downside for him, since he was rarely out of position and rarely had to worry about carrying the puck.

This season he's been the #5 guy, primarily tasked with carrying one of Bellemore or Komisarek -- both of whom have the offensive game of an ECHL'er. That makes Harrison the primary puck-carrier on his pairing, which is way outside his comfort zone, and often leaves him scrambling to cover for turnovers. He's not cut out for this role.

I did not pay close attention to him in the past seasons, have to admit. But I still find your argument somewhat faulty. Yes, Harrison stinks at carrying the puck, but he also constantly messes up with his positional play. Plus he is not physical AT ALL. With his size, he can be a crease clearing dman, which he is not. I think Komi would be a better fit in that 3rd pair.

Have a question for you on Boychuk: what's his problem? Does he think of himself as a top 6 guy and has only enough talent for a bottom six role? (And therefore is missing the required work ethic?)

Bellemore, if guided correctly by the coaches, can easily transform into a McQuaid (BOS) type of a dman. He needs to work on his positional game and continue to "develop" his mean streak.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I did not pay close attention to him in the past seasons, have to admit. But I still find your argument somewhat faulty. Yes, Harrison stinks at carrying the puck, but he also constantly messes up with his positional play.

It has to do with his poor skating. In the past he's been the guy hanging back on rushes, or observing the offensive attack from the weak side. That makes it a whole lot easier to be in safe position when the play turns the other way. Now, as the primary puck carrier and offensive threat, he can't just sit back conservatively and that exposes his skating.

Also, he's prone to overthinking and trying to do entirely too much against rushes. He's one of the worst I've ever seen at defending a 2-on-1 specifically.

Plus he is not physical AT ALL. With his size, he can be a crease clearing dman, which he is not.

Harrison just doesn't have the disposition for it. He's not a naturally nasty person.

Have a question for you on Boychuk: what's his problem? Does he think of himself as a top 6 guy and has only enough talent for a bottom six role? (And therefore is missing the required work ethic?)

I'm not sure it's work ethic so much as a natural inclination toward playing a skill game. Like Harrison, he doesn't have the personality to run around banging bodies. That said, the last time he was here he showed flashes of a bottom-6 type game. If he can work on that, he has a chance to be a niche winger like Gerbe or Tlusty.

Bellemore, if guided correctly by the coaches, can easily transform into a McQuaid (BOS) type of a dman. He needs to work on his positional game and continue to "develop" his mean streak.

This team simply doesn't develop meanness. Boston players walk into rookie camp and from Day One they hear about the team culture of toughness. They know that there's a lineage from Eddie Shore to Cam Neely to Milan Lucic. They know what happens to soft guys, even franchise players, if they don't buy into the team identity. They're surrounded by the McQuaids and Thorntons and Lucics and Charas every day. The team identity rubs off, and even the softer guys learn a certain level of team-toughness.

The Canes are at the other end of the spectrum. Rutherford wants fighting out of the game and he wants a team that thrives on speed and positional D. Our star players are notorious divers. Neither Maurice nor Muller ever seemed to ask anyone to finish checks, drop the gloves or get dirty in the crease. Bellemore himself took years to get a look in the NHL, and guys like Westgarth and Gleason have become marshmallows here. We are too soft for this NHL and it shows in the number of goals our opponents score by driving the puck right down the middle against us. I don't see it changing as long as JR is in charge -- maybe if Brind'Amour ever comes up the ranks he could influence it somehow.

 

[rocky7]

the St. Louis game demonstrated that they can make the play offs.




the last two demonstrated that they don't give a **** one way or the other.

 

[Stickpucker]

Oh man, how did I not notice this? Except [spoil]Ned still has his head![/spoil]

I think Khudobin gave them a chance to win last night, and that's really all you can ask of him. Yeah his stick work was awful, but he didn't really have a chance on any of the goals. The 2nd went off Ryan White who had time to locate it, settle it, deke, and score.

To draw from the other thread, these are the lines I'd roll after the break:

Skinner // Eric // Lindholm -- Pure offense. Goes against easier competition. High O-Zone starts. Eric has typically gotten the toughest matchups, and it's only sort of worked out. Good mix of everything on this line, and there was some magic between Skinner and Eric earlier this year, and definitely some between Skinner and Lindholm.

Gerbe // Jordan // Semin -- Calling this a "shut down" line isn't accurate because they're capable of scoring too. Jordan and Semin can cycle like no one else, and Gerbe plays much bigger than his size. Gerbe and Jordan have worked well together this year and Semin can "shut down" the other team by just skating in circles for 45 seconds.

Tlusty // Nash // Ruutu -- This bumps Nash back to the 3rd line, but right now, he's earned it. And Malhotra has been drowning lately, not looking like himself. Ruutu has been passing the puck well lately, and he and Nash have been among the best players over the last several. Tlusty gets back to easier competition, and hopefully finds his game.

Bowman // Malhotra // Dwyer -- Typical 4th line, but fairly defensively responsible. Not big, but Malhotra can hit, and Dwyer/Bowman provide a bit of speed. They'll give you reliable minutes. Can take defensive zone draws and still go against roughly the same competition they are now.

Each top 9 line has a "playmaker" (Lindholm, Semin, Ruutu), a "grinder" (Staals, Tlusty), and a "scorer" (Skinner, Gerbe, Nash). Some chemistry is preserved while optimizing talent, as well as slotting players correctly according to this season (with the exception of Lindholm). And they all have a little bit of speed. Short of making a trade, I feel like this gives them the best chance to win.

I like those lines & I think Tlusty and Lindholm could be switched if need be...I will say I think Semin hasn't been great cycling the puck lately. He seems to be getting knocked off of it more easily as of late.

 

[Stickpucker]

The Canes are at the other end of the spectrum. Rutherford wants fighting out of the game and he wants a team that thrives on speed and positional D. Our star players are notorious divers. Neither Maurice nor Muller ever seemed to ask anyone to finish checks, drop the gloves or get dirty in the crease. Bellemore himself took years to get a look in the NHL, and guys like Westgarth and Gleason have become marshmallows here. We are too soft for this NHL and it shows in the number of goals our opponents score by driving the puck right down the middle against us. I don't see it changing as long as JR is in charge -- maybe if Brind'Amour ever comes up the ranks he could influence it somehow.

I thought Jordan might rub off a bit on Eric...I can count so many times that Eric & Semin have easy checks lined up on Dmen and shrug away from physical contact allowing them to exit the zone easily.

 

[rocky7]

Jordan is a big teddy bear and I don't know what might get him mad but he will never play that kind of game it seems. not talking about fighting. it just isn't in his personality. I was hoping that the thing that would rub off on Eric somehow would be Jordan's work ethic but that sure doesn't appear to be the case at all.

and Semin actually lays a hit every once in a while. he's skilled when it comes to board work but it's surprising how strong he really is and how hard it is to knock him off the puck. it's pretty bad when Semin is as physical or more so, than the rest of the team. it's not size, it's mentality, and that edge to this team's game is both missing and easy to exploit.

 

[What the Faulk]

Teams leaders in hits:

1. Tuomo Ruutu (156)
2. Jordan Staal (126)
3. Brett Bellemore (120)
...
19. Alex Semin (20)

He is above Murphy and Boychuk though. And has TWICE as many as Skinner!

EDIT: Side note, is there cell phone reception in Cancun? Asking for a friend.

 

[FeedDaPuck]

It has to do with his poor skating. In the past he's been the guy hanging back on rushes, or observing the offensive attack from the weak side. That makes it a whole lot easier to be in safe position when the play turns the other way. Now, as the primary puck carrier and offensive threat, he can't just sit back conservatively and that exposes his skating.

Also, he's prone to overthinking and trying to do entirely too much against rushes. He's one of the worst I've ever seen at defending a 2-on-1 specifically.



Harrison just doesn't have the disposition for it. He's not a naturally nasty person.



I'm not sure it's work ethic so much as a natural inclination toward playing a skill game. Like Harrison, he doesn't have the personality to run around banging bodies. That said, the last time he was here he showed flashes of a bottom-6 type game. If he can work on that, he has a chance to be a niche winger like Gerbe or Tlusty.



This team simply doesn't develop meanness. Boston players walk into rookie camp and from Day One they hear about the team culture of toughness. They know that there's a lineage from Eddie Shore to Cam Neely to Milan Lucic. They know what happens to soft guys, even franchise players, if they don't buy into the team identity. They're surrounded by the McQuaids and Thorntons and Lucics and Charas every day. The team identity rubs off, and even the softer guys learn a certain level of team-toughness.

The Canes are at the other end of the spectrum. Rutherford wants fighting out of the game and he wants a team that thrives on speed and positional D. Our star players are notorious divers. Neither Maurice nor Muller ever seemed to ask anyone to finish checks, drop the gloves or get dirty in the crease. Bellemore himself took years to get a look in the NHL, and guys like Westgarth and Gleason have become marshmallows here. We are too soft for this NHL and it shows in the number of goals our opponents score by driving the puck right down the middle against us. I don't see it changing as long as JR is in charge -- maybe if Brind'Amour ever comes up the ranks he could influence it somehow.

Wow. Thank you for a great answer(s). Very insightful.

Rod was awesome in Philly. Stinks that what happened happened. You did get a great guy. He is one of the harder working men out there. (BTW, Flyers current coach is cut from the same cloth)

 

[NorthStar4Canes]

Awesome, another advanced stats win! 32 SOG plus 20 blocked by MTL vs a paltry 24/10. We owned 'em, plain and simple. Woohoo!

 

[the halleJOKEL]

^ definitely has a humanities degree

 

[nobuddy]

lol.

 

[RodTheBawd]

The Canes are at the other end of the spectrum. Rutherford wants fighting out of the game and he wants a team that thrives on speed and positional D.

The game got less physical immediately after the lockout, but it eventually evolved and JR has been left behind.

Rod was awesome in Philly. Stinks that what happened happened. You did get a great guy. He is one of the harder working men out there. (BTW, Flyers current coach is cut from the same cloth)

Do you mean losing the C, healthy scratch, etc? While it was unfortunate he didn't go out "on top," I don't think there is any ill-will remaining (still with the organization). I grew up a Philly fan and made the switch with the Rod trade (I hated Primeau for some reason) and while everyone wants to see their favorites go out in glorious fashion, it felt more like he took a little too long hanging them up vs. being done wrong (although I still think waiting for the season to end before passing the torch was the better move).

 

[rocky7]

Teams leaders in hits:

1. Tuomo Ruutu (156)
2. Jordan Staal (126)
3. Brett Bellemore (120)
...
19. Alex Semin (20)

He is above Murphy and Boychuk though. And has TWICE as many as Skinner!

EDIT: Side note, is there cell phone reception in Cancun? Asking for a friend.

I wasn't talking about doling out hits per se rather playing with an edge or without fear of being hit. I said Semin hits "once in a while". the point was really, that he is willing to take a hit in order to make a play or maintain possession. Skinner's board work sucks due in part to him hearing footsteps constantly. Nash plays the boards the same as Skinner does. the shying away is quite obvious and almost always leads to a give away or loss of possession. Jordan hits trying to establish puck possession not plaster the guy onto the boards and uses his body to shield the puck along the boards whereas Ruutu goes for the big hit expecting someone else to retrieve the puck, usually on the forecheck. different styles. I wasn't talking about laying the other team out or fighting as much as just playing a little tougher game, a little more hard nosed overall and I believe it to be a mentality rather than size, generally speaking.

 

[FeedDaPuck]

Do you mean losing the C, healthy scratch, etc? While it was unfortunate he didn't go out "on top," I don't think there is any ill-will remaining (still with the organization). I grew up a Philly fan and made the switch with the Rod trade (I hated Primeau for some reason) and while everyone wants to see their favorites go out in glorious fashion, it felt more like he took a little too long hanging them up vs. being done wrong (although I still think waiting for the season to end before passing the torch was the better move).

There was more to it than what was said. Rod is the man. plain and simple. Always was and always will be. I am happy that Canes became a home for him. All I have to say is "Lindros. Wife" You make your conclusions

 

[geehaad]

All I have to say is "Lindros. Wife" You make your conclusions

And right there your "insider" cred just went POOF.

 

[RodTheBawd]

And right there your "insider" cred just went POOF.

Not to keep white knighting FDP, but why? There were lots of rumors flying around about Rod's proclivity for married ladies.

 

[AD Skinner]

Not to keep white knighting FDP, but why? There were lots of rumors flying around about Rod's proclivity for married ladies.

I always heard it was the other way around...

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I always heard it was the other way around...

Exactly

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I always heard it was the other way around...

Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a winner (and thus geehaad's post).