Proposal: MTL & TOR

[Mersss]

Proposal seems to be a Habs fan. Keep your garbage.

We already knw the Leafs only like soft players who go cry whenever tougher playoff hockey comes, it's ok we get it.

CHiarot would slide right into TOR top4 tho, and let's be honnest until cleard, Amirov's value is the future consideration type. it's a brain tumour ffs

 

[Just a Fan]

We already knw the Leafs only like soft players who go cry whenever tougher playoff hockey comes, it's ok we get it.

CHiarot would slide right into TOR top4 tho, and let's be honnest until cleard, Amirov's value is the future consideration type. it's a brain tumour ffs

I have no issue with Chiarot (not for a 1st though), we just don't need hoffman

 

[Mersss]

I have no issue with Chiarot (not for a 1st though), we just don't need hoffman

You're not getting Chiarot for a late 2nd, simple as that.

 

[Just a Fan]

You're not getting Chiarot for a late 2nd, simple as that.

I would do 2nd+3rd, or 2nd+prospect....or maybe 2nd+2nd.

 

[Drive425]

I would do 2nd+3rd, or 2nd+prospect....or maybe 2nd+2nd.

The rumour mill is saying 1st plus a B prospect so not sure that moves the dial but who knows...TDL day has shown us GMs are crazy at times.

 

[Just a Fan]

The rumour mill is saying 1st plus a B prospect so not sure that moves the dial but who knows...TDL day has shown us GMs are crazy at times.

Not sure who's left that will be dealing their 1st....seems like a buyers market with all of the rumored available players....

 

[Mersss]

I would do 2nd+3rd, or 2nd+prospect....or maybe 2nd+2nd.

Not cutting it either. 2 late 2nd doesn't get you a mean physical top4dman.

See Savard

 

[Just a Fan]

Not cutting it either. 2 late 2nd doesn't get you a mean physical top4dman.

See Savard

As i posted above, this year seems like a buyers market....and some contenders have already moved their 1st. Not saying he won't get one...but:
Chiarot
Gio
Soucy
Risto
Chychrun
Klingberg
Myers
Schenn
Holl
Dermott
All rumored to be available, then add possibles like Manson/Lindholm....and some dark horses we don't even know yet....

 

[Stewie Griffin]

The rumour mill is saying 1st plus a B prospect so not sure that moves the dial but who knows...TDL day has shown us GMs are crazy at times.

Just this morning Friedman called the market for rental defenseman soft though because of the surplus of expiring defenseman.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Not cutting it either. 2 late 2nd doesn't get you a mean physical top4dman.

See Savard

"We’ve mentioned before that the early ask was what Columbus got last season for David Savard (a first and a third), but buyers feel they can squeeze the sellers" - Elliot Friedman on the rental defenseman market this year. As others have said, there's a ton of defenseman available this year, and with the top contenders already have moved their 1sts, I doubt many more are moved.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would do 2nd+3rd, or 2nd+prospect....or maybe 2nd+2nd.

I think you and are close but I wish I knew what the dialog was with actual GM conversation traffic. Regardless, without knowing the actual truth, My price is two 2nd's and a B+ prospect developing well. 2nd rounder in 23 and 24. I'd make that deal today and offer 50% retention. If not, I wait it out

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just this morning Friedman called the market for rental defenseman soft though because of the surplus of expiring defenseman.

This somewhat of a factor for sure and I look at Giordano, Chiarot, Braun, and Risto as the physical/reliable types. I do feel that GM's will prefer Giordano and Chiarot depending on costs. Add Manson to that list if the Ducks don't make the playoffs and want to sell.

Here are some things we should talk about. What legit contenders do we feel will make a move for these guys? Lets forget about the fringe teams for a second. They might try to make a move but lets focus on the locked in playoff teams first.

* Tampa?
* Flames?
* Leafs?
* Avs?
* Panthers?
* Blues?
* Rangers?
* Maybe the Bruins as well?

I feel these 7 teams will try to add a physical Defenseman. We likely know there are at least 4 available and maybe 7 if Manson, Lindholm, and Klingberg join the sellers list.

Then there is cap space to consider. Chiarot's age, playoff trends, size/mobility, Ice time/D zone usage and $1.75M prorated cap hit does stand out.

 

[Just a Fan]

This somewhat of a factor for sure and I look at Giordano, Chiarot, Braun, and Risto as the physical/reliable types. I do feel that GM's will prefer Giordano and Chiarot depending on costs. Add Manson to that list if the Ducks don't make the playoffs and want to sell.

Here are some things we should talk about. What legit contenders do we feel will make a move for these guys? Lets forget about the fringe teams for a second. They might try to make a move but lets focus on the locked in playoff teams first.

* Tampa?
* Flames?
* Leafs?
* Avs?
* Panthers?
* Blues?
* Rangers?

I feel these 7 teams will try to add a physical Defenseman. We likely know there are at least 4 available and maybe 7 if Manson, Lindholm, and Klingberg join the sellers list.

Then there is cap space to consider. Chiarot's age, playoff trends, size/mobility, trends and $1.75M prorated cap hit does stand out.

Of those listed teams, I think only the Blues and Leafs are fits for Chiarot.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

This somewhat of a factor for sure and I look at Giordano, Chiarot, Braun, and Risto as the physical/reliable types. I do feel that GM's will prefer Giordano and Chiarot depending on costs. Add Manson to that list if the Ducks don't make the playoffs and want to sell.

Here are some things we should talk about. What legit contenders do we feel will make a move for these guys? Lets forget about the fringe teams for a second. They might try to make a move but lets focus on the locked in playoff teams first.

* Tampa?
* Flames?
* Leafs?
* Avs?
* Panthers?
* Blues?
* Rangers?

I feel these 7 teams will try to add a physical Defenseman. We likely know there are at least 4 available and maybe 7 if Manson, Lindholm, and Klingberg join the sellers list.

Then there is cap space to consider. Chiarot's age, playoff trends, size/mobility, trends and $1.75M prorated cap hit does stand out.

Yeah I agree with everything you're saying. Obviously a team will want Chiarot, but if you already moved your first/have strong LHD in placewhere Chiraot would be low on the depth chart, you're probably better off giving up a lesser asset for someone less coveted like Leddy, Braun, etc.

I think Chiarot is a great add to a playoff team, but there is no reason for a team to give up that much for him when you can get a less-known defenseman who will bring the same physicality at a much less cost.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Of those listed teams, I think only the Blues and Leafs are fits for Chiarot.

Why would Tampa make a move for Savard last year and not do it again this year? Appears that they are flying under the radar again where I think they are the most probable to dig into futures to shore up their roster (again) for another cup run (again).

Panthers have been rumored to be in on Chiarot. Rangers too but their fan base seems upset but that. Not sure but the Avs can use some grit on their back end too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah I agree with everything you're saying. Obviously a team will want Chiarot, but if you already moved your first/have strong LHD in placewhere Chiraot would be low on the depth chart, you're probably better off giving up a lesser asset for someone less coveted like Leddy, Braun, etc.

I think Chiarot is a great add to a playoff team, but there is no reason for a team to give up that much for him when you can get a less-known defenseman who will bring the same physicality at a much less cost.

I'm with the 1st rounder concerns. Cause I try to put myself on other teams shoes and I see it. This is why my price has been two 2nd's well before the 1st rounder narrative came out by the media. In fact, if you said possible 1st for Chiarot on the Habs boards earlier in the season, you might have been laughed right off the board lol.

I feel many teams would trade the two 2nd's (or something close to that value). Lately, I added the 3rd piece (B+ prospect) cause I feel that's what it will take to get him over the other teams.

Regardless if Chiarot is on the 2nd or 3rd pairing, he's going to a complete team trying to address all their holes. Basically what Tampa did with Savard. Doesn't mean it's going to be a 1st but I do see teams addressing as much holes/flaws as much as possible. The top teams anyways. If fringe teams get into that mix, it's a sellers market for sure.

Thank you for debating in good faith. Appreciated

 

[Mersss]

As i posted above, this year seems like a buyers market....and some contenders have already moved their 1st. Not saying he won't get one...but:
Chiarot
Gio
Soucy
Risto
Chychrun
Klingberg
Myers
Schenn
Holl
Dermott
All rumored to be available, then add possibles like Manson/Lindholm....and some dark horses we don't even know yet....

Chiarot is the best d-man in that group except for Chycrun who won't be moved unless a top team decides tu gut all of their future, and Klingberg cause DAL is still in a playoff spot

 

[Drive425]

Just this morning Friedman called the market for rental defenseman soft though because of the surplus of expiring defenseman.

Not sure given the amount of teams needing defense going into the TDL but we'll see in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Just a Fan]

Chiarot is the best d-man in that group except for Chycrun who won't be moved unless a top team decides tu gut all of their future, and Klingberg cause DAL is still in a playoff spot

Ok, let’s say I agree, if a team ONLY needs a D, they may pay a 1st, but speaking for the Leafs, they need more thank that….so they may aim lower at D and use the 1st on a player with term.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Physical defenseman are some of the hardest guys in the league to put a value on. Finding the right one to mesh with your current group can be hard, but at the same time it is just as easy to give up a 3rd/4th for a depth guy to hit/PK/block then trading valuable assets for someone who brings the same thing only with a more-known name

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure given the amount of teams needing defense going into the TDL but we'll see in the next couple of weeks.

There are about 7 or 8 top teams that will make moves to add pieces. They always do. Question is some will dig into futures more than the others and it's hard to guess on when or if they make that move (depending on price).

The way I see it is this...

7 or 8 teams will be adding D men
vs
4-7 guys that are logical targets with proven track records in ice time/D zone usage.

If some of the fringe playoff teams get into this mix and get aggressive, it changes the dynamics as we approach Mar 21. All we can do as fans is to try to track the context and guess

 

[Habs Halifax]

Physical defenseman are some of the hardest guys in the league to put a value on. Finding the right one to mesh with your current group can be hard, but at the same time it is just as easy to give up a 3rd/4th for a depth guy to hit/PK/block then trading valuable assets for someone who brings the same thing only with a more-known name

This is true but there also has been some trends lately of looking at the final 4 teams year to year and how their team D is built. Not many teams can reach the final 4 with flaws on D... especially in the physical areas.

Leafs and Avs are legit contenders and I feel they lack grit on the back end as well as question marks in net. I have no doubt the Leafs and Avs focus on shoring up their D core cause they already have top offensive teams.

The deeper you go in the playoffs, the harder it is. All it takes is one bad mistake by someone who lacks maturity and it costs you a critical game. Leafs know this very well and it happened to the Avs against the Knights as well.

 

[Boondock]

This somewhat of a factor for sure and I look at Giordano, Chiarot, Braun, and Risto as the physical/reliable types. I do feel that GM's will prefer Giordano and Chiarot depending on costs. Add Manson to that list if the Ducks don't make the playoffs and want to sell.

Here are some things we should talk about. What legit contenders do we feel will make a move for these guys? Lets forget about the fringe teams for a second. They might try to make a move but lets focus on the locked in playoff teams first.

* Tampa?
* Flames?
* Leafs?
* Avs?
* Panthers?
* Blues?
* Rangers?
* Maybe the Bruins as well?

I feel these 7 teams will try to add a physical Defenseman. We likely know there are at least 4 available and maybe 7 if Manson, Lindholm, and Klingberg join the sellers list.

Then there is cap space to consider. Chiarot's age, playoff trends, size/mobility, Ice time/D zone usage and $1.75M prorated cap hit does stand out.

I agree with your list of teams that could use another D man. If you look at Tampa, Calgary, Toronto and NYR they really are looking for a 3rd pairing player. If the ask for Chiarot is a 1st, I don't see these teams being on board. Panthers and Flames have already traded their 1st round picks this year so not sure if they are willing to dip into next years picks? So I could see a GM trying to make a Coleman type all in move, but I don't think the list is 7 teams deep. I think there was probably 10 GM's interested and were hoping to get Chiarot for a lesser price, but now as teams start to emerge with an identity and players develop the list of true suitors at the cost of a 1st or a 1st + is probably realistically down to 2 teams. Take cap issues, needs elsewhere, and team development model into account and its going to be interesting to see who is willing to move major assets to win this year.

 

[Mersss]

Ok, let’s say I agree, if a team ONLY needs a D, they may pay a 1st, but speaking for the Leafs, they need more thank that….so they may aim lower at D and use the 1st on a player with term.

You're not getting a good player with term for a bottom 10 1st rd pick, that's what you aren't getting.

You'll get a Goodrow type, so bottom 6er with grit

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree with your list of teams that could use another D man. If you look at Tampa, Calgary, Toronto and NYR they really are looking for a 3rd pairing player. If the ask for Chiarot is a 1st, I don't see these teams being on board. Panthers and Flames have already traded their 1st round picks this year so not sure if they are willing to dip into next years picks? So I could see a GM trying to make a Coleman type all in move, but I don't think the list is 7 teams deep. I think there was probably 10 GM's interested and were hoping to get Chiarot for a lesser price, but now as teams start to emerge with an identity and players develop the list of true suitors at the cost of a 1st or a 1st + is probably realistically down to 2 teams. Take cap issues, needs elsewhere, and team development model into account and its going to be interesting to see who is willing to move major assets to win this year.

This Habs fan is not emotionally tied to the 1st. Possible but I'm not banking on it. I'm thinking a different type of package. Measure my value opinion to what he actually gets traded for (See below). I could be off but I feel it will be close to this in the end. If it's the 1st and prospect, I'll be surprised/shocked like many other fans (not Habs fans)

* Two 2nds (one in 23 and one in 24)
* Grade B+ prospect developing well (age 19-21 range)