Proposal: MTL-NYR

[Lindberg Cheese]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I did hear a while back from someone in the know that there is some NYR interest in Ryan Poehling. No idea of what he would cost or what NYR would give up. Montreal wants draft picks I assume, can Jeff Gordon and Chris Drury still dance after what transpired? Time will tell…

Do you think there’s bad blood between the two? I guess if Drury ran to Sather to help sand bag JG, there could be

 

[bernmeister]

If he was absolutely invisible, McKegg, Gauthier and Hunt were dogshit level net negatives.

Revisionist history is fun though.

substantially agree, except I think Gauthier, while not on the level of Krav, also got buried b'c deference to senior vets/their rep, when ultimately talent and performance should prevail.

 

[McJedi]

Haven’t done one of these proposal threads before and to be honest, with how bad my Habs are this year, I haven’t been following the NHL as much as usual, so I hope I am not too off in terms of value.
I was simply curious to read what some Rangers fans (or any knowledgeable fan) would think about a trade along the lines of:


Ben Chariot (50% retained)
Tyler Toffoli


Vitali Kravstov
2022 1st round pick
2023 2nd round pick

Some of the factors I considered:
- NYR has lot of cap space right now.
- Reported value for Chariot being a 1st + (Lebrun)
- NYR reported need for a D and a RW (Toffoli great value for the aav imo)

Hoping to have some constructive opinions and takes - and please not just sh*t on it.

Rangers have cap space. Which makes Habs return on Chairot worth nothing to them. This poster didn’t consider the Rangers need. This offer isn’t well thought out.

 

[glenbuis]

Value for Chariot is irrelevant because the Rangers don't need the guy.

Value for Toffoli is irrelevant because of cap.

A Habs fan proposed the trade, so how is it on Rangers fans to make an unwanted trade proposal work?

it's not on rangers fans . i can appreciate the deal not helping the rangers needs as well . people can be a little more grown up and just say it doesn't fit their needs . to reply that the proposal is shit just shows a lack of something . value wise it's close . needs wise no . doesn't make it shit .

 

[Nickmo82]

it's not on rangers fans . i can appreciate the deal not helping the rangers needs as well . people can be a little more grown up and just say it doesn't fit their needs . to reply that the proposal is shit just shows a lack of something . value wise it's close . needs wise no . doesn't make it shit .

A trade offer that doesn't remotely consider the needs of one of the trading partners is, in fact, shit. It's a pointless, go-nowhere offer. Value can be right on the money, but it counts for nothing if the need isn't there. Ditto salary cap. Renders the offer null and void.

 

[TGWL]

substantially agree, except I think Gauthier, while not on the level of Krav, also got buried b'c deference to senior vets/their rep, when ultimately talent and performance should prevail.

Gauthier got buried because he blows. He reminds me of a better version of Ryan Gropp, a player NYR thought was going to be a potential Kreider with Speed and size to play a power forward game, except Ryan had a much better shot and probably better hands. It didn't work out then and it's not working out with Gauthier. There's no offense IQ there and he can't play with other players. He can skate with the puck and crash and drive to the net. He's running out of chances on this team. Hunt and Gauthier better be far from the team next season.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Both out played Krav in preseason.

Goalpost moving.

Answer the questions.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Goalpost moving.

Answer the questions.

Kakko and Laf underperforming has zero to do with crybaby Kravstov. So you originally moved the goalpost bud.

 

[Overrateprospects]

substantially agree, except I think Gauthier, while not on the level of Krav, also got buried b'c deference to senior vets/their rep, when ultimately talent and performance should prevail.

Gauthier did great against Bruins day after Thanksgiving. He constantly creates opportunities but can’t finish. He was drafted almost 6 years ago When are we expected to see him finish?

 

[bernmeister]

Gauthier did great against Bruins day after Thanksgiving. He constantly creates opportunities but can’t finish. He was drafted almost 6 years ago When are we expected to see him finish?

The nano second he has correct linemates who are also ready.
Also, his finishing is secondary to the overall success of his regular line.
Permit me to elaborate.

Going back to the example of Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert, there has been an established precedent of one functional model of an effective line:
a driver of play -- a facilitator -- a finisher scorer

In the case of the above, Gilbert was the scorer, Ratelle the facilitator and Hatfield the driver of play. Obv it didn't mean that Gilbert couldn't pass and his linemates couldn't score; it just meant those were the areas of specialization.

Applying that to current roster, the correct line will be
LaF [scorer] - Chytil [facilitator] - Gauth [driver of play]

the prob here is that LaF is behind the other 2. His skating is coming along but it is not optimal NHL level yet. He still has to be better about moving his legs, etc.
The min LaF does that, his overall game is upped and he scores. He scores and that is a threat creating pressure on whoev is guarding Chytil-Gauthier and their opportunities improve.

 

[Habs10025]

No thx from habs pov

Yup.

 

[glenbuis]

A trade offer that doesn't remotely consider the needs of one of the trading partners is, in fact, shit. It's a pointless, go-nowhere offer. Value can be right on the money, but it counts for nothing if the need isn't there. Ditto salary cap. Renders the offer null and void.

well it still seems a little harsh bud . maybe it's a kid 15 or 16 doing some posting . not everyone is an nhl level gm . hell there are close to 10 gms who are not nhl gms . if you want to closely scrutinize every trade proposal on these boards the creator in most cases dont give a rats ass about the other teams needs . maybe they were coming up with something they thought was fair. null and void . lmao .good thing we got people out there to distinguish between what's sh.. and ok .

 

[Nickmo82]

well it still seems a little harsh bud . maybe it's a kid 15 or 16 doing some posting . not everyone is an nhl level gm . hell there are close to 10 gms who are not nhl gms . if you want to closely scrutinize every trade proposal on these boards the creator in most cases dont give a rats ass about the other teams needs . maybe they were coming up with something they thought was fair. null and void . lmao .good thing we got people out there to distinguish between what's sh.. and ok .

All fair points. However, if people are happy to come up with heavily unbalanced trade proposals, they might as well keep it to their team's forum. Putting it on the main boards and asking for the opinion of the other team's fans, they are going to get exactly that. People will call a spade a spade.

 

[Overrateprospects]

The nano second he has correct linemates who are also ready.
Also, his finishing is secondary to the overall success of his regular line.
Permit me to elaborate.

Going back to the example of Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert, there has been an established precedent of one functional model of an effective line:
a driver of play -- a facilitator -- a finisher scorer

In the case of the above, Gilbert was the scorer, Ratelle the facilitator and Hatfield the driver of play. Obv it didn't mean that Gilbert couldn't pass and his linemates couldn't score; it just meant those were the areas of specialization.

Applying that to current roster, the correct line will be
LaF [scorer] - Chytil [facilitator] - Gauth [driver of play]

the prob here is that LaF is behind the other 2. His skating is coming along but it is not optimal NHL level yet. He still has to be better about moving his legs, etc.
The min LaF does that, his overall game is upped and he scores. He scores and that is a threat creating pressure on whoev is guarding Chytil-Gauthier and their opportunities improve.

Wait you think Laf is the scorer and Chytil is the playmaker? Perhaps that’s why those two have underachieved grossly.

If Gauthier is the one driving the play that explains a lot. Those 3 have been given a lot of OZ starts and somehow have been brutal. I say the biggest issue is Chytil playing Centre instead of wing.

 

[bernmeister]

Wait you think Laf is the scorer and Chytil is the playmaker? Perhaps that’s why those two have underachieved grossly.

If Gauthier is the one driving the play that explains a lot. Those 3 have been given a lot of OZ starts and somehow have been brutal. I say the biggest issue is Chytil playing Centre instead of wing.

Chytil has the skill and experience to be a successful pivot. Getting the correct complementary Ws and not juggling lines would help a lot, but that formula -- and I am not saying that is the only formula that works btw -- requires one of each area. If LaF gets his skating up to high end standards, watch out, and this is as good a combo to pair him on as any.

 

[glenbuis]

All fair points. However, if people are happy to come up with heavily unbalanced trade proposals, they might as well keep it to their team's forum. Putting it on the main boards and asking for the opinion of the other team's fans, they are going to get exactly that. People will call a spade a spade.

it didn't meet your teams needs . the heavily unbalanced part is what's now bull if you wanna call a spade a spade.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Kakko and Laf underperforming has zero to do with crybaby Kravstov. So you originally moved the goalpost bud.

No, I didn’t. I was making a point by asking the question and you refuse to answer it because you know it proves your original point wrong.

So again, answer the question.

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko and Laf underperforming has zero to do with crybaby Kravstov. So you originally moved the goalpost bud.

there's room to go around for blame but Krav is right to complain and take action vs the screw job he got from Rangers in general and Drury in particular.
He was not traded before due to his potential, ok, I disagree with jerking him around but for convo sake say they juggled and kicked the can. Now comes the time to give this guy legit mins w/first line Fs. He got neither, then instead of keeping him on the varsity, when he was clearly better than McKegg and more deserving of a roster spot than Hajek, he got screwed over. The first time, ya wanna argue, take one for the team regardless. Agree or disagree, he had a right to show balls and call it like it is.

Don't be stupid Rangers, listen to bern
deal Strome for futures pref picks
give his mins to Chytil, Barron ... then get injection from Krav in a month

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

there's room to go around for blame but Krav is right to complain and take action vs the screw job he got from Rangers in general and Drury in particular.
He was not traded before due to his potential, ok, I disagree with jerking him around but for convo sake say they juggled and kicked the can. Now comes the time to give this guy legit mins w/first line Fs. He got neither, then instead of keeping him on the varsity, when he was clearly better than McKegg and more deserving of a roster spot than Hajek, he got screwed over. The first time, ya wanna argue, take one for the team regardless. Agree or disagree, he had a right to show balls and call it like it is.

Don't be stupid Rangers, listen to bern
deal Strome for futures pref picks
give his mins to Chytil, Barron ... then get injection from Krav in a month

He could have shown maturity, accepted the Hartford assignment and been back with the team like 2 weeks later when injuries hit. Instead he chose to act like a petulant child and f*** off back to Russia for the second time. It says much more about him than it does Drury or the Rangers. Nobody should be guaranteed a top 6 role. You have to earn it.

 

[bernmeister]

He could have shown maturity, accepted the Hartford assignment and been back with the team like 2 weeks later when injuries hit. Instead he chose to act like a petulant child and f*** off back to Russia for the second time. It says much more about him than it does Drury or the Rangers. Nobody should be guaranteed a top 6 role. You have to earn it.

You have to be given the opportunity to earn it, and he was not, Also, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. You say he was like a petulant child, I say he was a man who said sorry, but I'm not swallowing this shit just b'c YOU say I have to.
Water under the bridge
Deal strome, make space, play him when he gets here, hopefully Drury is not stupid and does something short term which will be a net loss long term

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

You have to be given the opportunity to earn it, and he was not, Also, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. You say he was like a petulant child, I say he was a man who said sorry, but I'm not swallowing this shit just b'c YOU say I have to.
Water under the bridge
Deal strome, make space, play him when he gets here, hopefully Drury is not stupid and does something short term which will be a net loss long term

He was given the same opportunity as everyone else. Its called training camp and preseason games. But keep making excuses for him, its what you do best.

 

[bernmeister]

He was given the same opportunity as everyone else. Its called training camp and preseason games. But keep making excuses for him, its what you do best.

NO HE WAS EFFINN NOT AND YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO COMMANDEER THAT FALSE NARRATIVE.
Same opportunity would = legit meaningful mins w/rest of the first line, which did not happen.
Would prefer I not have to constantly correct you, but you do you and demonstrate the error of your ways if you must.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

NO HE WAS EFFINN NOT AND YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO COMMANDEER THAT FALSE NARRATIVE.
Same opportunity would = legit meaningful mins w/rest of the first line, which did not happen.
Would prefer I not have to constantly correct you, but you do you and demonstrate the error of your ways if you must.

You are as whiny as he is.

 

[bernmeister]

You are as whiny as he is.

Epic fail, on so many levels. At least Pat Benatar can try to hit me with her best shot. You are an example of others who got nothing but this ^ lame excuse for a comeback. Lame, lame, LAME-O, lame.