Proposal: MTL-NYR

[Calad]

Haven’t done one of these proposal threads before and to be honest, with how bad my Habs are this year, I haven’t been following the NHL as much as usual, so I hope I am not too off in terms of value.
I was simply curious to read what some Rangers fans (or any knowledgeable fan) would think about a trade along the lines of:


Ben Chariot (50% retained)
Tyler Toffoli


Vitali Kravstov
2022 1st round pick
2023 2nd round pick

Some of the factors I considered:
- NYR has lot of cap space right now.
- Reported value for Chariot being a 1st + (Lebrun)
- NYR reported need for a D and a RW (Toffoli great value for the aav imo)

Hoping to have some constructive opinions and takes - and please not just sh*t on it.

Rangers have approximately 30 million in projected capspace at the deadline. retaining money on chiarot has no value for us. Toffoli is interesting but we couldnt take his extra years at full

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

How about Rangers just call up Kravtsov after his KHL season and playoffs are over?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

-NYR need a top 6 center it seems. They will need thoses pieces to acquire one.

Top 9 center.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

called out for disingenuous bs
he didn't make the team not b'c he was not one of 12 best Fs, but b'c he could be buried b'c his elc status allowed him to be sent to the A w'o waivers.

I could go on but time does not permit now.

He wasnt one of the best 12 forwards. Stop with your false narrative.

 

[Big Empty]

What does any of that have to do with looking like crap for Rangers? The expected value for a player has nothing to do with it making sense for the other team. There's a retention there to squeeze more value out when NYR don't need any retention this season. Then there's a RW signed next season and Rangers can't even afford to get their 2c squared away yet. This is "Hey, NYR, go all in this season and worry about everything after that." It's bad because it's not really a fit, not because these players don't have value.

Chiarot will net a first-round pick at the deadline and Toffoli is worth more than Kravtsov and a second-round pick. Kravtsov is damaged goods and he's coming with the baggage of having twice bolted to Russia when things did not go his way. He is not someone I would target. I would expect more value in return for a package including Chiarot and Toffoli. Chiarot's experience playing on the top pair in the SCF makes him a valuable and proven commodity. Toffoli is on a sweetheart contract at 4.25M for the next three years. Him being signed for next year makes him more valuable, not less. I'd say Toffoli is worth a first-round pick and a second-round pick at the bare minimum. The package for the two players would have to be two first-round picks and a second-round pick for it to make sense. For that reason, it's a bad trade for the Habs, especially with the retention. If it doesn't make sense for the Rangers, that's fine because I wouldn't entertain this.

 

[TGWL]

Chiarot will net a first-round pick at the deadline and Toffoli is worth more than Kravtsov and a second-round pick. Kravtsov is damaged goods and he's coming with the baggage of having twice bolted to Russia when things did not go his way. He is not someone I would target. I would expect more value in return for a package including Chiarot and Toffoli. Chiarot's experience playing on the top pair in the SCF makes him a valuable and proven commodity. Toffoli is on a sweetheart contract at 4.25M for the next three years. Him being signed for next year makes him more valuable, not less. I'd say Toffoli is worth a first-round pick and a second-round pick at the bare minimum. The package for the two players would have to be two first-round picks and a second-round pick for it to make sense. For that reason, it's a bad trade for the Habs, especially with the retention. If it doesn't make sense for the Rangers, that's fine because I wouldn't entertain this.

You pretty much ignored what I said to tell me they have value and then how you wouldn't do it. Great?

 

[5cotland]

this kravstov guy must be something else . he didn't make the rangers team if i'm correct . if he wasn't in the deal you would be adding something significant. a late 1st for chariot retained is even . a 2023 2nd doesnt get you near toffoli .

He picked up an injury in pre-season and returned just before the cut and was asked to go to Hartford to improve his fitness effectively.

......and how the hell is a bottom 4 pairing dman worth a 1st round pick? Just because thats what the Habs ask for doesnt mean thats what he will get.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

this kravstov guy must be something else . he didn't make the rangers team if i'm correct . if he wasn't in the deal you would be adding something significant. a late 1st for chariot retained is even . a 2023 2nd doesnt get you near toffoli .

Fortunately the Rangers don't need Chiarot, let alone Chiarot retained.

 

[glenbuis]

called out for disingenuous bs
he didn't make the team not b'c he was not one of 12 best Fs, but b'c he could be buried b'c his elc status allowed him to be sent to the A w'o waivers.

I could go on but time does not permit now.

well will have to keep an eye on his progress . calling the original post shit is what is truly bs . it may not meet the rangers current or future needs but value wise it's more than fair .

 

[rangersfansince08]

Chiarot will net a first-round pick at the deadline and Toffoli is worth more than Kravtsov and a second-round pick. Kravtsov is damaged goods and he's coming with the baggage of having twice bolted to Russia when things did not go his way. He is not someone I would target. I would expect more value in return for a package including Chiarot and Toffoli. Chiarot's experience playing on the top pair in the SCF makes him a valuable and proven commodity. Toffoli is on a sweetheart contract at 4.25M for the next three years. Him being signed for next year makes him more valuable, not less. I'd say Toffoli is worth a first-round pick and a second-round pick at the bare minimum. The package for the two players would have to be two first-round picks and a second-round pick for it to make sense. For that reason, it's a bad trade for the Habs, especially with the retention. If it doesn't make sense for the Rangers, that's fine because I wouldn't entertain this.

The Rangers don't need the retention. And you won't entertain this? Oh no. Can Drury change your mind somehow?

 

[glenbuis]

He picked up an injury in pre-season and returned just before the cut and was asked to go to Hartford to improve his fitness effectively.

......and how the hell is a bottom 4 pairing dman worth a 1st round pick? Just because thats what the Habs ask for doesnt mean thats what he will get.

that's just what the hockey writers are saying there big fella . i'm sure your above those lads though .

 

[One Winged Angel]

Perhaps. But we're dealing with someone who has demonstrated he's not interested in what's best for all parties involved at best and reality at worst.

We’re also dealing with an organization who doesn’t know how to treat and develop players.

Maybe if the GM with the fragile ego knew how to deal with people better and would extend the olive branch, things could be patched up.

 

[Big Empty]

You pretty much ignored what I said to tell me they have value and then how you wouldn't do it. Great?

Man, you don't get it.

You know you have to consider both teams' needs in a trade right? If the Rangers don't want to do it, that's fine by me. A trade was proposed. The Habs don't entertain it. End of story.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Man, you don't get it.

You know you have to consider both teams' needs in a trade right? If the Rangers don't want to do it, that's fine by me. A trade was proposed. The Habs don't entertain it. End of story.

Epilogue: The Rangers don’t either.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

We’re also dealing with an organization who doesn’t know how to treat and develop players.

Not sure I agree with that. If VK had gone to Hartford to rehab and give the Rangers time to figure out their roster choices, he would have been on Broadway before the end of October.

Maybe if the GM with the fragile ego knew how to deal with people better and would extend the olive branch, things could be patched up.

Maybe the entitled player who has no reason to be entitled should see opportunities for what they are, not personal slights.

 

[Souker]

In a nutshell, so far in this thread:
- Habs fans saying Habs overpaying.
- Ranger fans saying Rangers overpaying.
Usually in hfboards, that means it’s a fair deal

Also some rangers fans saying that there is no interest for Chariot, which is fair, but for what it’s worth, I thought there would be an interest based on an article by Kevin Allen on Hockeybuzz (yes I know):
“I should mention the Rangers, but I think their emphasis will be on Chiarot, a left-shot defenseman. The Rangers are in a position to be king in the trade market. They have more than $6 million in salary cap space.

They are going to end up with a defenseman and a forward. Chiarot and Joe Pavelski or Chiarot and Hertl. There’s a good chance they will be able to improve themselves the most because of their cap space position.” - Kevin Allen

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

In a nutshell, so far in this thread:
- Habs fans saying Habs overpaying.
- Ranger fans saying Rangers overpaying.
Usually in hfboards, that means it’s a fair deal

Also some rangers fans saying that there is no interest for Chariot, which is fair, but for what it’s worth, I thought there would be an interest based on an article by Kevin Allen on Hockeybuzz (yes I know):
“I should mention the Rangers, but I think their emphasis will be on Chiarot, a left-shot defenseman. The Rangers are in a position to be king in the trade market. They have more than $6 million in salary cap space.

They are going to end up with a defenseman and a forward. Chiarot and Joe Pavelski or Chiarot and Hertl. There’s a good chance they will be able to improve themselves the most because of their cap space position.” - Kevin Allen

Well you misread that one.

And I have no idea who Kevin Allen is....

 

[eco's bones]

Kravtsov is certainly on the market and going to be moved by the Rangers. This summer he’s due for another contract and I just don’t see that happening with the animosity between Vitali and the Rangers GM Chris Drury. So that part is fine.

Just don’t see a good reason to be moving a 1st and 2nd on top of that for the likes of Chiarot and Toffoli. Montreal may get that 1st for Chiarot but with Nemeth here more or less doing what Ben would do for us what’s the point from the Rangers perspective? and at the moment we’re seeing whether Schneider can fill that bottom 6 role and so far that looks promising. Cap issues are a good reason to not go the Toffoli route. We hopefully will hold on to our 1st this year.

 

[TGWL]

Man, you don't get it.

You know you have to consider both teams' needs in a trade right? If the Rangers don't want to do it, that's fine by me. A trade was proposed. The Habs don't entertain it. End of story.

No, we don't. Because a poser said it was crap for the Rangers and you chimed in about value. But if you want to take the advise you're giving out, maybe consider the needs before chiming in.

The value coming back to Montreal is irrelevant to this being bad for NYR. If they want to spend for LD on 3rd pair, they're not going after a higher valued played to pay more and then stick him on the bottom pair.

 

[bernmeister]

He wasnt one of the best 12 forwards. Stop with your false narrative.

you lie like a rug

 

[Big Empty]

No, we don't. Because a poser said it was crap for the Rangers and you chimed in about value. But if you want to take the advise you're giving out, maybe consider the needs before chiming in.

The value coming back to Montreal is irrelevant to this being bad for NYR. If they want to spend for LD on 3rd pair, they're not going after a higher valued played to pay more and then stick him on the bottom pair.

From my first response to you in this ridiculous encounter: "If it doesn't make sense for the Rangers, that's fine..."

I understand if the deal doesn't make sense for the Rangers because they don't want Chiarot. It's irrelevant to the Habs because they aren't getting enough value in the proposed deal.

The value that is coming back to Montreal is relevant for Montreal because they need to get back an adequate return in the deal.

No one is forcing New York to make the deal. If it doesn't suit their needs, they should and will look elsewhere. Montreal will have already left the table by the time they come to that decision.

 

[General Fanager]

Seems pretty fair to me.

TT for a late first and Chiarot for a 2nd and Kravstov.

Not sure I would do it but it seems fair. Habs could probably do better for Chiarot

 

[Overrateprospects]

Haven’t done one of these proposal threads before and to be honest, with how bad my Habs are this year, I haven’t been following the NHL as much as usual, so I hope I am not too off in terms of value.
I was simply curious to read what some Rangers fans (or any knowledgeable fan) would think about a trade along the lines of:


Ben Chariot (50% retained)
Tyler Toffoli


Vitali Kravstov
2022 1st round pick
2023 2nd round pick

Some of the factors I considered:
- NYR has lot of cap space right now.
- Reported value for Chariot being a 1st + (Lebrun)
- NYR reported need for a D and a RW (Toffoli great value for the aav imo)

Hoping to have some constructive opinions and takes - and please not just sh*t on it.

Rangers have 8 Dmen so bringing in Chiarot makes little sense to them. Toffoli is not a rental and if Rangers wanted that they could’ve kept Buch. I could see why Montreal would do this but none of this makes sense from Rangers side. Jake Evans makes more sense but he shouldn’t cost that price tag

 

[TGWL]

From my first response to you in this ridiculous encounter: "If it doesn't make sense for the Rangers, that's fine..."

I understand if the deal doesn't make sense for the Rangers because they don't want Chiarot. It's irrelevant to the Habs because they aren't getting enough value in the proposed deal.

The value that is coming back to Montreal is relevant for Montreal because they need to get back an adequate return in the deal.

No one is forcing New York to make the deal. If it doesn't suit their needs, they should and will look elsewhere. Montreal will have already left the table by the time they come to that decision.

We said that. Numerous times. Stop with the "If it doesn't make sense for Rangers...." As if continuing to add that means anything when you proceed to talk about the value of what those players are worth.

 

[Big Empty]

We said that. Numerous times. Stop with the "If it doesn't make sense for Rangers...." As if continuing to add that means anything when you proceed to talk about the value of what those players are worth.

You can explain a subject to someone but you can not make them understand it. Common sense is not so common. Enjoy your afternoon. I certainly will.