McKenzie: Moved: McKenzie: Oilers in on Barrie? (Moves by Colorado-- Merged)

[Homesick]

The Oilers have been the laughing stock of the league for a decade. It's not even close!

The Nucks have been for 40+ years

 

[Homesick]

Chiarelli hasn't been as loose lipped as the previous regime. Stauffer is on the payroll and tries to sway the general public prior to deals. He tends to be pretty vague and almost never makes bold statements but its really all we have. Besides the Oiler's Management he also has good relationships with some of player agents (especially those who are Edmonton based) and occasionally that will lead to something credible (Shattenkirk unwilling to sign in Edmonton).

He did call the Larsson deal the day before. If people actually listen to him he's pretty careful when he's just "speculating"

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

This narrative would work a lot better if Sakic hadn't signed Duchene, Landeskog, EJ, and Varlamov to long term extensions, with MacKinnon soon to join that list.

...many of which are now due up, they were signed so long ago. That was my point- Sakic has forced the Avs into contention right now. That his other moves have been so ineffectual as to produce that result and he has attempted to nickle-and-dime two prominent members of his core do not detract from that. Sakic's ultimately put his team in an awkward state between being a winner and being a lottery team. Either he needs to pay, now, to keep those pieces on-board and make a strong push for the Cup in 2017 and 2018, or he needs to blow it up. There are no other options.

Or if Sakic had not signed the best Center on the market last summer (at a good price), while also adding one of the best LHD available in that same UFA-period.

Which makes it even more puzzling he'd haggle over what amounted to $1.8M. That was enough to severely downgrade? He didn't need Soderberg had he handled ROR in a more astute fashion.

Yes ROR wanted out and we couldn't change his mind, and Barrie hasn't been extended yet; but that doesn't mean you can start pretending that the Avs are the NHL's version of the Browns...

If the shoe fits...

Nor can you just wave off futures in a trade based around futures:
-Zadorov is an excellent dman prospect with truly exceptional talent & creativity; who did well playing top-4 minutes with Beauchemin last year...after having played well in Buffalo before the tank broke his spirits. He exists and pretty soon he'll be the avs best dman; even if Barrie decides not to listen to your advice & sticks around.
-Grigorenko has already shown he's an NHLer with a very sound two-way game, a very intelligent passing game, and a shot that he really needs to use a lot more than he does. As he worked his way up the lineup and earned a scoring-line role; so to did his production grow. He needs to show he can produce at a top 6 rate over the course of a full season, but he's certainly shown the talent, game, and mindset to do so now that Roy has him back on track.
-Compher is very likely to spend much of this season on the avs and should win a top 9 (if not top 6) job by season's end; after having played a big part in Connor's unreal NCAA season.
-The draft pick acquired in this trade was used to re-acquire their own picks in this draft, while also adding AJ Greer to the prospect pool; Greer, who just had a phenomenal post-draft season, and has made some very big strides in a short time.

Wow, tons of nothing to help the Avs today. Or is the team rebuilding? You keep moving the goalposts, but fortunately that's indicative of Sakic's leadership more than anything; he's essentially forced the fans to swallow the same sort of thing:

"Oh, we're winning- oh, wait, we're going to trade a key piece for futures- but no, we're winning- wait, we've put ourselves in a hole with our best offensive defenceman- might have to trade him- but no, we're really set on winning..."

These guys are real, and ignoring them is asinine when the Avs settled on a future's-based return for their contractual-problem-child

A problem of Sakic's own design.

...Colorado was a cap team last season...

Complain to Burnaby Joe if he's put you in a tight position while still being a non-factor for the Cup. Not ROR's fault.

[MOD] Rebuilding is a long process, Avs hope to have it done faster than the Oilers. How many 1st overall picks and you are still a lottery team? Worry about your own team and leave us out of it.

Yeah, so, this is more of the attempts at evasion I was talking about. When you have to resort to this kind of thing without addressing my points, you have to know something's wrong.

Sakic has only been there for 3 years, this will be his 4th.

Sakic has had an influence on the team's front office since March 2011. That's five years, but who's counting?

In his time he hasn't drafted any of those people that you have talked about, only fired the head scout that did in fact draft them. His first act of business was selecting MacKinnon 1st overall. Pretty good one there!

Right, so why do fans keep giving the scouting staff that decided Bleackley was a fine first rounder the very next year credit for ROR and Barrie? You can't have it both ways. Either this is an inept scouting staff that has produced 40 NHL GP outside of MacKinnon since 2013, or it's not and somehow by osmosis they also are geniuses for drafting O'Reilly.

From the second that Duchene signed his $6 million contract, ROR has always wanted that much money as well. At the time of Duchene signing, he was not worth it. As time pushed along, Landeskog became captain and that I am sure pissed off ROR and from then on he was hell-bent on leaving.

And here again Sakic and co.'s talent evaluation skills are proven to be out of whack. O'Reilly gets traded, and what happens? He racks up more points than either Duchene or Landeskog. Guess he was right to want to be valued that highly.

We got 4 very good assets from his trade out of town and all should be a big part of this team.

Should be, but aren't and may not be even this upcoming season. ROR, meanwhile, IS a big part of the Sabres. Not a great decision.

Talking about sacrificing a top-line winger...Your team just got rid of yours sending him out, just like we did 2 years ago. Although I along with 95% of the NHL fans out there would feel we got a much better return than your trade.

Deflect, deflect, deflect- you all need to get together and come up with some new material. Trying to pull the conversation off-topic to avoid addressing Sakic's poor record just isn't working.

As far as all the Soderberg talk, he is signed for a great deal, long term, and fits the role needed on this team. He wasn't brought in to completely fill in for ROR but he did pretty good last year in putting up career numbers in his first year on a team "riddle with holes in the line up".

Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.

Oh, and by the way, Soderberg got more points then everyone on your team except for the player that you just traded away.

More shots at the Oilers because you can't defend what's happened to your team.

So you may bash us all you want, I won't stop supporting Joe in what he has done, even if everyone outside of the Avs is blind to it.

I think the blindness is only in one place, but I'm glad that you admitted you "won't stop supporting" your GM, no matter how he or the team do. That's all you needed to say.

So with soderberg/zadorov/grigorenko/compher/greer for ROR and McGinn +7th rounder To Bos (also add in the loss of the constant black cloud over the contract talks with ROR) I am pretty sure I'd do the move over again in a heartbeat.

Even if it causes you to lose Varlamov and Duchene as UFAs?

A lot of talk about the Avs and how they're run from someone who doesn't know much about the Avs.

Neat.

A lot of attempts from Avs fans to discredit the poster and not the contents of the post. Neat.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Your entire franchise has been built on top 4 picks.
I'm not saying the Oilers haven't been brutal for the past decade but the Avs, Pens, and Panthers are the last teams that should be calling out anyone for top picks. Or maybe you're not old enough to remember the 6 top 5 picks the Nords had in 5 years

So, because 30 years ago, a team that became the Avs had top picks, that somehow means that Avs fans can't point out the the Oilers have had 6 top 4 picks in 7 years, including 4 1st OA picks?

Can we point out that the Nordiques were sold and moved 3 years after their last 1st OA pick in Quebec? You guys have 2 years left, right?

 

[The Abusement Park]

If the shoe fits...

So what does that make the Oilers?

 

[cgf]

I don't think the Avs should be calling anyone out for lottery picks

[snip]

Why? Because they've had 3 in the past decade; or are you talking about things from more than two decades ago when the team was in a different country and the NHL was in a very different place?

This is almost as silly as EdmontonExpress's "colorado is the new edmonton" spiel.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Your entire franchise has been built on top 5 picks.
I'm not saying the Oilers haven't been brutal for the past decade but the Avs, Pens, and Panthers are the last teams that should be calling out anyone for top picks. Or maybe you're not old enough to remember the 6 top 5 picks the Nords had in 5 years

Chicago too! Hey even L.A. needed some top picks!

Why not call them out? The Avs haven't been great, but to suggest that they are similar to the Oilers is just laughable.

Especially suggesting that Sakic is sitting on his thumb and collecting picks. The guy hasn't had the team long and has already made a ton of improvements.

Also, saying "maybe you're not old enough to remember the 90s" as if being a younger fan is a bad thing just looks bad on you. That's the sort of elitist talk that makes this place cancerous. I didn't grow up a Nords fan, I grew up an Avalanche fan, so yeah they're poor records over 20 years ago really aren't relevant in the modern NHL. The Oilers drafting 1st overall 3 times in a row is in the modern NHL. Them having nothing to show for it in the modern NHL does matter. The Avs barely missed the playoffs the last 2 years. Maybe the Avs did need top picks (just about every team does in order to contend). Looks like the Oilers haven't done much but still draft top 5 again. I'll take the Avs missing the playoffs over that mess.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.

ROR didn't want to be here. Lacroix's regime didn't treat the situation very well and ROR pretty much said, "Do it my way or I'm out." He just didn't want to be here plain and simple and Soderberg, while not an exact replacement has still been great value for money.

 

[JLo217]

...many of which are now due up, they were signed so long ago. That was my point- Sakic has forced the Avs into contention right now. That his other moves have been so ineffectual as to produce that result and he has attempted to nickle-and-dime two prominent members of his core do not detract from that. Sakic's ultimately put his team in an awkward state between being a winner and being a lottery team. Either he needs to pay, now, to keep those pieces on-board and make a strong push for the Cup in 2017 and 2018, or he needs to blow it up. There are no other options.



Which makes it even more puzzling he'd haggle over what amounted to $1.8M. That was enough to severely downgrade? He didn't need Soderberg had he handled ROR in a more astute fashion.



If the shoe fits...



Wow, tons of nothing to help the Avs today. Or is the team rebuilding? You keep moving the goalposts, but fortunately that's indicative of Sakic's leadership more than anything; he's essentially forced the fans to swallow the same sort of thing:

"Oh, we're winning- oh, wait, we're going to trade a key piece for futures- but no, we're winning- wait, we've put ourselves in a hole with our best offensive defenceman- might have to trade him- but no, we're really set on winning..."



A problem of Sakic's own design.



Complain to Burnaby Joe if he's put you in a tight position while still being a non-factor for the Cup. Not ROR's fault.



Yeah, so, this is more of the attempts at evasion I was talking about. When you have to resort to this kind of thing without addressing my points, you have to know something's wrong.



Sakic has had an influence on the team's front office since March 2011. That's five years, but who's counting?



Right, so why do fans keep giving the scouting staff that decided Bleackley was a fine first rounder the very next year credit for ROR and Barrie? You can't have it both ways. Either this is an inept scouting staff that has produced 40 NHL GP outside of MacKinnon since 2013, or it's not and somehow by osmosis they also are geniuses for drafting O'Reilly.



And here again Sakic and co.'s talent evaluation skills are proven to be out of whack. O'Reilly gets traded, and what happens? He racks up more points than either Duchene or Landeskog. Guess he was right to want to be valued that highly.



Should be, but aren't and may not be even this upcoming season. ROR, meanwhile, IS a big part of the Sabres. Not a great decision.



Deflect, deflect, deflect- you all need to get together and come up with some new material. Trying to pull the conversation off-topic to avoid addressing Sakic's poor record just isn't working.



Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.



More shots at the Oilers because you can't defend what's happened to your team.



I think the blindness is only in one place, but I'm glad that you admitted you "won't stop supporting" your GM, no matter how he or the team do. That's all you needed to say.



Even if it causes you to lose Varlamov and Duchene as UFAs?



A lot of attempts from Avs fans to discredit the poster and not the contents of the post. Neat.

Stauffer is that you?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

...many of which are now due up, they were signed so long ago. That was my point- Sakic has forced the Avs into contention right now. That his other moves have been so ineffectual as to produce that result and he has attempted to nickle-and-dime two prominent members of his core do not detract from that. Sakic's ultimately put his team in an awkward state between being a winner and being a lottery team. Either he needs to pay, now, to keep those pieces on-board and make a strong push for the Cup in 2017 and 2018, or he needs to blow it up. There are no other options.

Now up? Duchene and Varly have 3 years left. Landeskog has 5 years left. EJ hasn't even played a game on his new contract yet.

Which makes it even more puzzling he'd haggle over what amounted to $1.8M. That was enough to severely downgrade? He didn't need Soderberg had he handled ROR in a more astute fashion.

Soda has a cap hit of $4.75m. ROR has a cap hit of $7.5m. That's a $2.75m difference, not $1.8m.

If the shoe fits...

Winning the Central 3 years ago apparently means we're worse than a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 10 years.

Wow, tons of nothing to help the Avs today. Or is the team rebuilding? You keep moving the goalposts, but fortunately that's indicative of Sakic's leadership more than anything; he's essentially forced the fans to swallow the same sort of thing:

"Oh, we're winning- oh, wait, we're going to trade a key piece for futures- but no, we're winning- wait, we've put ourselves in a hole with our best offensive defenceman- might have to trade him- but no, we're really set on winning..."

Why is it such a problem that the team traded 1 very good player for 4 players to help in the future? We knew it was a futures trade, not sure why you want to judge the outcome based solely on the year following the trade.

A problem of Sakic's own design.

Sakic wasn't involved in the initial contract negotiations that led to the holdout/offersheet. He wasn't the one that caused the issues, no matter how many times you repeat this.

Complain to Burnaby Joe if he's put you in a tight position while still being a non-factor for the Cup. Not ROR's fault.

Who said he put us in a tight position? That quote was specifically answering a claim that the Avs have an internal budget.

Yeah, so, this is more of the attempts at evasion I was talking about. When you have to resort to this kind of thing without addressing my points, you have to know something's wrong.



Sakic has had an influence on the team's front office since March 2011. That's five years, but who's counting?

He was employed with the team, but didn't take over as the GM until 2013. Or do you think that he was fully in charge from the beginning?

Right, so why do fans keep giving the scouting staff that decided Bleackley was a fine first rounder the very next year credit for ROR and Barrie? You can't have it both ways. Either this is an inept scouting staff that has produced 40 NHL GP outside of MacKinnon since 2013, or it's not and somehow by osmosis they also are geniuses for drafting O'Reilly.

The Lightning have 0 NHL games played by players drafted after 2013. The Blackhawks have 8 NHL games played by players they drafted after 2012. The Canadiens have 1 NHL game since 2013. The Penguins have 30 NHL games since 2012. Not sure why you think 40 NHL games somehow proves that our scouting staff is completely inept.

And here again Sakic and co.'s talent evaluation skills are proven to be out of whack. O'Reilly gets traded, and what happens? He racks up more points than either Duchene or Landeskog. Guess he was right to want to be valued that highly.

ROR scored 1 more point than Duchene in 5 more games. Definitely earned the extra $1.5m.

Should be, but aren't and may not be even this upcoming season. ROR, meanwhile, IS a big part of the Sabres. Not a great decision.

So, because the futures didn't pay off in year 1, it's an abject failure? Zadorov looks ready for top 4 duty. Grigorenko looks like he could be a top 6 forward. Compher just finished a very good junior year at Michigan and signed his ELC. Greer just signed his ELC.

Deflect, deflect, deflect- you all need to get together and come up with some new material. Trying to pull the conversation off-topic to avoid addressing Sakic's poor record just isn't working.

What poor record? Trading ROR for a better return than most on HF were predicting and trying to build a team for the future? Getting rid of the AHL caliber D he inherited?

Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.

Sure, if ROR were willing to sign for $6m, Soderberg wouldn't have been needed. But, ROR wanted $8m to stay in Denver. Soderberg is a significanly better value for the money we spent on him.

More shots at the Oilers because you can't defend what's happened to your team.


I think the blindness is only in one place, but I'm glad that you admitted you "won't stop supporting" your GM, no matter how he or the team do. That's all you needed to say.

Sakic has done a number of good things for the team, to prepare them for long term success. You seem to think that trading ROR somehow ruined the team's future. Looking back at franchise history, the Avs traded Eric Lindros for futures. Remind me again how that turned out for the team.

Even if it causes you to lose Varlamov and Duchene as UFAs?

They are both signed for 3 more years. Duchene loves the Avs, and will likely be here for his entire career. Varlamov is good, but not irreplaceable.

A lot of attempts from Avs fans to discredit the poster and not the contents of the post. Neat.

When we discredit the contents of your post, you ignore it and double down on your incorrect claims.

And the fun continues.

 

[chet1926]

I love how EdmontonExpress thinks he knows more about the Quebec/Colorado franchise than all Avs/Nords fans put together.

Calling all Edmonton fans you might want to corral EdmontonExpress he is giving all of you a bad reputation around here.

You clearly have no idea about the ROR situation. The Avs wanted him around, he didn't want to be around unless there was a drastic overpayment. Rumors circulated he wouldn't sign anything under 8M per to be on the Avs. Even at 7.5M per on the Sabres that is borderline ridiculous especially when you have comps in and around 6M.

It's not like Avs said well we value Duchene/Landeskog more, we just weren't willing to sacrifice a high end player down the road because one guy wanted to be overpaid drastically. You pay ROR what he wanted then pretty much kiss one of Duchene or Varly or Landeskog or EJ goodbye. We wanted all of them. When that wasn't a possibility we traded the guy who'd been holding us hostage for 4 seasons, and catered to the guys that showed that they wanted to be part of this organization.

I'm not sure why you are even bringing Soderberg into the discussion, he wasn't brought in to replace ROR. The Avs were/are counting on players like MacKinnon and Duchene and Landeskog to pick up the slack left by trading ROR not Soderberg. It's not like Sakic/Roy thought Soderberg was equal to ROR. They brought Soderberg in because they thought he could be a nice complementary piece to the puzzle not a main attraction. And I find it even more funny that Soderberg out scored every player on your current roster last year, but yet according to you he is garbage. And the Avs should be ashamed they signed him instead of the money bags O'Reilly.

I think the absolute best part about EdmontonExpress is the fact that he is ripping a franchise that has had infinitely more success over the past decade than his own franchise. Which is sad because the Avs haven't had a ton of success either. You want to talk about possibly the worst run franchise in modern sports outside of maybe the Cleveland Browns I give you the Oilers. I mean **** the Oilers haven't sniffed the playoffs since 05/06. They've acquired 6 top 5 picks and another 3 top 10 picks since 05/06. so basically over the past 11 drafts they've drafted top 10 9 out of 11 years, but yet they still can't seem to translate these numerous picks into anything remotely successful. We are also talking about a team that just traded arguably their best freaking player over the past 6 seasons for a OK top pairing dman, who will probably become more of a 2nd pairing guy than anything down the road.

I could go on but I've got better things to do with my time than argue with a person that clearly has no grip on the situation. Why don't you stick to your own franchise before tearing into one that you clearly have no base knowledge of outside of what you read and hear from the national media.

 

[GDU]

this thread is a huge molten lava pile of suck at the moment. (newsflash, both franchises have sucked lately)

... the longer this drags on the less value the Avs are getting for Barrie if they move him imo, possible we see CHia win out here and get him for 2017 first and something else... or maybe Avs just sign him for year and move at deadline or something

 

[tempest2i]

So what does that make the Oilers?

The type of team that you compare your team to, to feel better about your situation.

Seriously, aim higher.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

this thread is a huge molten lava pile of suck at the moment. (newsflash, both franchises have sucked lately)

... the longer this drags on the less value the Avs are getting for Barrie if they move him imo, possible we see CHia win out here and get him for 2017 first and something else... or maybe Avs just sign him for year and move at deadline or something

We heard the same thing about ROR, and the return we ended up getting was significantly better than most non-Avs fans expected.

 

[Soundwave]

I love how EdmontonExpress thinks he knows more about the Quebec/Colorado franchise than all Avs/Nords fans put together.

Calling all Edmonton fans you might want to corral EdmontonExpress he is giving all of you a bad reputation around here.

You clearly have no idea about the ROR situation. The Avs wanted him around, he didn't want to be around unless there was a drastic overpayment. Rumors circulated he wouldn't sign anything under 8M per to be on the Avs. Even at 7.5M per on the Sabres that is borderline ridiculous especially when you have comps in and around 6M.

It's not like Avs said well we value Duchene/Landeskog more, we just weren't willing to sacrifice a high end player down the road because one guy wanted to be overpaid drastically. You pay ROR what he wanted then pretty much kiss one of Duchene or Varly or Landeskog or EJ goodbye. We wanted all of them. When that wasn't a possibility we traded the guy who'd been holding us hostage for 4 seasons, and catered to the guys that showed that they wanted to be part of this organization.

I'm not sure why you are even bringing Soderberg into the discussion, he wasn't brought in to replace ROR. The Avs were/are counting on players like MacKinnon and Duchene and Landeskog to pick up the slack left by trading ROR not Soderberg. It's not like Sakic/Roy thought Soderberg was equal to ROR. They brought Soderberg in because they thought he could be a nice complementary piece to the puzzle not a main attraction. And I find it even more funny that Soderberg out scored every player on your current roster last year, but yet according to you he is garbage. And the Avs should be ashamed they signed him instead of the money bags O'Reilly.

I think the absolute best part about EdmontonExpress is the fact that he is ripping a franchise that has had infinitely more success over the past decade than his own franchise. Which is sad because the Avs haven't had a ton of success either. You want to talk about possibly the worst run franchise in modern sports outside of maybe the Cleveland Browns I give you the Oilers. I mean **** the Oilers haven't sniffed the playoffs since 05/06. They've acquired 6 top 5 picks and another 3 top 10 picks since 05/06. so basically over the past 11 drafts they've drafted top 10 9 out of 11 years, but yet they still can't seem to translate these numerous picks into anything remotely successful. We are also talking about a team that just traded arguably their best freaking player over the past 6 seasons for a OK top pairing dman, who will probably become more of a 2nd pairing guy than anything down the road.

I could go on but I've got better things to do with my time than argue with a person that clearly has no grip on the situation. Why don't you stick to your own franchise before tearing into one that you clearly have no base knowledge of.

I think signing Iginla was the mistake. Should've passed on that contract and kept one of Statsny or ROR, it just seems like the chemistry of the team was never quite the same after that, I think it wrecked the center depth.

Anyways I think Barrie will be an Av for the forseeable future, but if Sakic can get him locked in at 6.5, I think he'd be better off just signing Barrie long term.

 

[cgf]

I think signing Iginla was the mistake. Should've passed on that contract and kept one of Statsny or ROR

[snip]

I don't think many people disagree with you. But, unfortunately, teams aren't allowed to force UFAs to sign extensions at gunpoint anymore.

 

[AslanRH]

this thread is a huge molten lava pile of suck at the moment. (newsflash, both franchises have sucked lately)

... the longer this drags on the less value the Avs are getting for Barrie if they move him imo, possible we see CHia win out here and get him for 2017 first and something else... or maybe Avs just sign him for year and move at deadline or something

Why? Right now all anybody wants to trade for is Barrie's rights. Soon he'll be under contract after arbitration + factor in that he'll receive that "cost controlled" label since no matter the arbitration outcome he will have either 1or 2 RFA years left than his value will skyrocket exponentially by September.

 

[chet1926]

I don't think many people disagree with you. But, unfortunately, teams aren't allowed to force UFAs to sign extensions at gunpoint anymore.

Agreed. Stastny wanted to test UFA waters, and got a ridiculous contract offer. ROR didn't want to be here. You can't just overpay people to stick around because it hampers your possibilities moving forward.

I wish that they hadn't signed Iginla as it was a bad fit from the beginning to bring in a slow aging vet to play with a young team that like to play up tempo, but that is beside the fact.

 

[Drij]

...many of which are now due up, they were signed so long ago. That was my point- Sakic has forced the Avs into contention right now. That his other moves have been so ineffectual as to produce that result and he has attempted to nickle-and-dime two prominent members of his core do not detract from that. Sakic's ultimately put his team in an awkward state between being a winner and being a lottery team. Either he needs to pay, now, to keep those pieces on-board and make a strong push for the Cup in 2017 and 2018, or he needs to blow it up. There are no other options.



Which makes it even more puzzling he'd haggle over what amounted to $1.8M. That was enough to severely downgrade? He didn't need Soderberg had he handled ROR in a more astute fashion.



If the shoe fits...



Wow, tons of nothing to help the Avs today. Or is the team rebuilding? You keep moving the goalposts, but fortunately that's indicative of Sakic's leadership more than anything; he's essentially forced the fans to swallow the same sort of thing:

"Oh, we're winning- oh, wait, we're going to trade a key piece for futures- but no, we're winning- wait, we've put ourselves in a hole with our best offensive defenceman- might have to trade him- but no, we're really set on winning..."



A problem of Sakic's own design.



Complain to Burnaby Joe if he's put you in a tight position while still being a non-factor for the Cup. Not ROR's fault.



Yeah, so, this is more of the attempts at evasion I was talking about. When you have to resort to this kind of thing without addressing my points, you have to know something's wrong.



Sakic has had an influence on the team's front office since March 2011. That's five years, but who's counting?



Right, so why do fans keep giving the scouting staff that decided Bleackley was a fine first rounder the very next year credit for ROR and Barrie? You can't have it both ways. Either this is an inept scouting staff that has produced 40 NHL GP outside of MacKinnon since 2013, or it's not and somehow by osmosis they also are geniuses for drafting O'Reilly.



And here again Sakic and co.'s talent evaluation skills are proven to be out of whack. O'Reilly gets traded, and what happens? He racks up more points than either Duchene or Landeskog. Guess he was right to want to be valued that highly.



Should be, but aren't and may not be even this upcoming season. ROR, meanwhile, IS a big part of the Sabres. Not a great decision.



Deflect, deflect, deflect- you all need to get together and come up with some new material. Trying to pull the conversation off-topic to avoid addressing Sakic's poor record just isn't working.



Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.



More shots at the Oilers because you can't defend what's happened to your team.



I think the blindness is only in one place, but I'm glad that you admitted you "won't stop supporting" your GM, no matter how he or the team do. That's all you needed to say.



Even if it causes you to lose Varlamov and Duchene as UFAs?



A lot of attempts from Avs fans to discredit the poster and not the contents of the post. Neat.

I would argue with you but your post is just way to long and all over the place. Try shorter ones with less quotations.

 

[jsalz16]

Agreed. Stastny wanted to test UFA waters, and got a ridiculous contract offer. ROR didn't want to be here. You can't just overpay people to stick around because it hampers your possibilities moving forward.

I wish that they hadn't signed Iginla as it was a bad fit from the beginning to bring in a slow aging vet to play with a young team that like to play up tempo, but that is beside the fact.

Letting Staz walk for nothing to make the playoffs when they were clearly years from actually competing was the only move I didn't like tbh. People talked how it was worth it because of the playoff experience the youngsters would gain. The fact is, Varly was absolutely ridiculous the entire season. Sakic had zero options in moving RoR and tbh, it was the right move. He got the most he could for a player who earned a huge pay raise but they couldn't keep with an eye on re-signing who they believed was their core. The cap sucks. No other way around it. 30 meh teams as opposed to 4 or 5 powerhouses.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Letting Staz walk for nothing to make the playoffs when they were clearly years from actually competing was the only move I didn't like tbh. People talked how it was worth it because of the playoff experience the youngsters would gain. The fact is, Varly was absolutely ridiculous the entire season. Sakic had zero options in moving RoR and tbh, it was the right move. He got the most he could for a player who earned a huge pay raise but they couldn't keep with an eye on re-signing who they believed was their core. The cap sucks. No other way around it. 30 meh teams as opposed to 4 or 5 powerhouses.

Stastny was also saying all the right things about wanting to stay in Denver, and trading him would have eliminated any chance of him signing with the Avs. So, it's a little more nuanced than keeping him in order to make the playoffs for the experience.

 

[cgf]

Varly should've won the vezina that year, but the Landy-Staz-MacK and ROR-Dutchy-McG lines were crucial to our success that season as well. The first formed a simply dominant shutdown line, and the later group gave the NHL a glimpse of what Duchene could do with a partner near his level.

Breaking that up for a late first + b-prospect would've been a tough sell when a division crown was on the table and Stastny was letting the team think they had a good chance at re-signing him.

 

[tucker3434]

this thread is a huge molten lava pile of suck at the moment. (newsflash, both franchises have sucked lately)

... the longer this drags on the less value the Avs are getting for Barrie if they move him imo, possible we see CHia win out here and get him for 2017 first and something else... or maybe Avs just sign him for year and move at deadline or something

He has 3 RFA years left. I think there's plenty of time.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

...many of which are now due up, they were signed so long ago. That was my point- Sakic has forced the Avs into contention right now. That his other moves have been so ineffectual as to produce that result and he has attempted to nickle-and-dime two prominent members of his core do not detract from that. Sakic's ultimately put his team in an awkward state between being a winner and being a lottery team. Either he needs to pay, now, to keep those pieces on-board and make a strong push for the Cup in 2017 and 2018, or he needs to blow it up. There are no other options.



Which makes it even more puzzling he'd haggle over what amounted to $1.8M. That was enough to severely downgrade? He didn't need Soderberg had he handled ROR in a more astute fashion.



If the shoe fits...



Wow, tons of nothing to help the Avs today. Or is the team rebuilding? You keep moving the goalposts, but fortunately that's indicative of Sakic's leadership more than anything; he's essentially forced the fans to swallow the same sort of thing:

"Oh, we're winning- oh, wait, we're going to trade a key piece for futures- but no, we're winning- wait, we've put ourselves in a hole with our best offensive defenceman- might have to trade him- but no, we're really set on winning..."



A problem of Sakic's own design.



Complain to Burnaby Joe if he's put you in a tight position while still being a non-factor for the Cup. Not ROR's fault.



Yeah, so, this is more of the attempts at evasion I was talking about. When you have to resort to this kind of thing without addressing my points, you have to know something's wrong.



Sakic has had an influence on the team's front office since March 2011. That's five years, but who's counting?



Right, so why do fans keep giving the scouting staff that decided Bleackley was a fine first rounder the very next year credit for ROR and Barrie? You can't have it both ways. Either this is an inept scouting staff that has produced 40 NHL GP outside of MacKinnon since 2013, or it's not and somehow by osmosis they also are geniuses for drafting O'Reilly.



And here again Sakic and co.'s talent evaluation skills are proven to be out of whack. O'Reilly gets traded, and what happens? He racks up more points than either Duchene or Landeskog. Guess he was right to want to be valued that highly.



Should be, but aren't and may not be even this upcoming season. ROR, meanwhile, IS a big part of the Sabres. Not a great decision.



Deflect, deflect, deflect- you all need to get together and come up with some new material. Trying to pull the conversation off-topic to avoid addressing Sakic's poor record just isn't working.



Soderberg wasn't needed if ROR had remained. I think even the most die-hard Sakic fans can admit that. It was a poor substitution and all of the available evidence bears that out.



More shots at the Oilers because you can't defend what's happened to your team.



I think the blindness is only in one place, but I'm glad that you admitted you "won't stop supporting" your GM, no matter how he or the team do. That's all you needed to say.



Even if it causes you to lose Varlamov and Duchene as UFAs?



A lot of attempts from Avs fans to discredit the poster and not the contents of the post. Neat.

go outside man, try a hobby.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

So how about that Tyson Barrie?