PatrikOverAuston
Laine > Matthews
ManOfSteel55 said:Not sure what else you expect. If you are going to run at a team's GM, then expect them to give it back.
I expect a reasonable conversation, not attempts to derail it by bringing in unrelated topics? Here's the problem with this viewpoint: you seem to look at criticism of a GM as "taking a run". However, it doesn't have to be personal. Unfortunately, that's not what's happening. Avs fans in this thread feel they have to defend every move Sakic makes with the sort of unerring loyalty owed to blood relatives. I've not seen one even come close to criticizing him, a truly bizarre state of affairs for a team that's plagued with problems up and down the lineup.
Sakic traded O'Reilly for a good package of futures because they were already very strong at forward. You can only pay so many guys #1 centre money.
So strong that barely a year later their top right wing is a 39-year-old and their top six will have one of Blake Comeau or Joe Colborne in it.
It's a completely different situation, the only parallel is that its a good player looking to be paid. O'Reilly was expendable, Barrie probably isn't as much and thus his value is higher until they know for sure what is going to happen with his arbitration.
Yes, completely different situation- expect they're both RFAs repped by the same agent who is known for playing hard-ball for long-term, high-value contracts and Sakic is insisting on his way or the highway all the while headed towards a relationship-killing arbitration process. But other than that, totally different.
Colorado's window is not today. They have a very young team. A team paying a starting goalie a good salary doesn't mean that their "window is open". It means they are trying to build a balanced team for when the window is open.
The window is open because that's how the team's books are structured. If they aren't competitive by 2018, said goalie and Matt Duchene are staring down free agency, with Beauchemin done and Johnson on the wrong side of 30.
Sakic has had literal years to build a balanced team. All he's done is send them back.
Sakic made his on ice team worse in the immediate future, but loaded up the system and gained money to get Soderberg, who isn't as good as O'Reilly, but is playing a role and making a salary more in line with what the Aves needed as opposed to another top liner in O'Reilly.
That same system they let empty out in the first place? Also, as I mentioned before, what exactly was Sakic trying to save for? Between Soderberg's contract and what ROR eventually signed for in Buffalo, there is a difference of $1.8M. That's a fourth liner in today's NHL. It wasn't worth severely downgrading for.
Every team negotiates. Some players want to be paid more than an organization wants to pay them. We know that was the case with ROR, and rightfully so in his situation as he has proven to be worth the kind of money that Colorado can't pay him.
Easily could have. Chose not to.
There is nothing wrong with Sakic wanting Barrie to show him more (be it in a more complete game or whatever they want) before giving him a big money, long term contract. Barrie is a good player but not without some flaws, a GM is smart to not want to cripple the team long-term for a player they aren't sure is the long-term fit.
Right, so if he's not sure after two seasons around 50 points, he needs to deal with that TODAY. It's not a good idea whatsoever to allow Barrie to sign a contract that hinders his value as an asset just in case the one extra year he's really affording himself to make a decision turns out to justify his suspicions.
Soderberg doesn't need to reach O'Reilly numbers. He needs to be an adequate 2nd line center. He is that. O'Reilly was that, but was capable of more and wanted to be paid to do more.
A whole John Mitchell more. Wow, what a burden on the Colorado Avalanche.
Colorado's performance last year also isn't a result of Soderberg. Like Edmonton, they are looking to balance their team. You can't blame Soderberg any more than you can blame any one Oiler for us being so bad again last year.
Sakic "balanced" his team by acquiring a bunch of prospects. How can you balance a roster with players who aren't ready for the show, now and maybe not ever?
When you are trading a guy who wants to be a #1 centre and wants #1 centre money, but isn't your teams #1 centre and has made it known that he wants top dollar regardless of the role he will take on the team, it makes sense. It wasn't O'Reilly for Soderberg. It was O'Reilly for Soderberg and a pile of very good prospects. A net win for Sakic, much like Hall for Larsson and Lucic is going to be a net positive for Chiarelli. I'm sure if Sakic could have gotten a #1 defenseman for O'Reilly, he would have.
I'd be upset with Chiarelli if he'd chosen a pile of prospects over a (supposedly) lesser today NHL player, because the Oilers are competing TODAY. If the Avs aren't, they need to dismantle what they have. Full stop.
Hindsight, 20/20. The year before O'Reilly's value might not have been the same. The positions Sakic wanted to fill also might not have been possible with trade. We've seen that in Edmonton for years.
You're right, we did that see here; Petry was traded for picks a year after MacT turned out a long-term deal because he felt he wasn't worth it. Sakic and MacT actually have a great deal in common as GMs.
It's Sakic's job to fix that problem. Probably is a big part of why they don't want to trade Barrie for beans.
Great, so he shouldn't put himself in a position where beans are the only thing on the menu. That means dealing with it today.
Colorado has had the same problem with Edmonton in terms of scouting. Lots of top end draft picks means lots of young guys who make the NHL right away and not much for the prospect pool.
It's worse than that for both teams and I think you know that. Neither team has found much in the later rounds. The Avs hit on Barrie and O'Reilly, so there's that, but since the incredible fortuitous 2009 Draft they've gotten all of 200 NHL games out of their second-day picks since- and 40 of those come from a player now in a different organization.
A successful team has a strong prospect pool that they can lean on when necessary. How is Sakic strengthening his prospect pool a bad thing?
Because his scouts, as noted, should have been able to take care of that without sacrificing a first-line NHL player. That's absolutely brutal asset management. There are UFAs who go as deadline who return just as much in potential- never mind 24-year-olds.
Using that logic, no team with a bad drafting record should be trading for prospects.
You're right, they probably shouldn't trust those same scouts who can't assess talent. Why is that weird or bad? You wouldn't let a doctor who accidentally attached your arm to your face perform any other operations on you.
Quite frankly, that makes no sense, especially when dealing with prospects who are nearly universally considered to be very good.
According to who- the scouts who thought Joey Hishon, Duncan Siemens and Connor Bleackley were fine first round selections?
Do you truly know if O'Reilly's value was lower when he was traded? For all we know the offers might have been basically the same, and in that case, why not get the extra year out of him.
If that was the case and you knew his value wasn't anything of substance, why not then sign the damn guy? Be it one year or the other, you're essentially stating Sakic chose to make his team worse on purpose.
I'm sure if a trade to fill a hole long term was there for O'Reilly, he would have taken it. The fact is that everyone knew that ROR was looking to get paid, so other GM's might needed to see more from him before making an offer.
Yes, so many GMs were unconvinced of his abilities that one team sent him an unprecedented offer sheet to pry him away.