Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[ULF_55]

Serious question.

Would you guys consider trying to convert him to a winger if you were Berube?

Have thought about Red Kellying him several times.

Red averaged 15.7 goals per 82 with Detroit as defender.
Red averaged 20.8 goals per 82 with Toronto as center.
Morgan averages 8.3 goals per 82.

Not sure Rielly has the shot to be a forward, or maybe if he wasn't shooting from the point, he could be more a marner than a Knies?

 

[supermann_98]

He, like Rielly, plays a lot of the PP minutes on a team that allows some of the most goals against on the PP.

So what you're saying is the stat is misleading because he's on ice ice for shorthanded goals against, and that doesn't mean he's bad defensively.

Ummm, the powerplay is designed to give the team the overwhelming advantage of having an extra player on the ice and the play start in the offensive zone. When he's the PP quarterback and he's on the ice for goals against that makes his defense even worse considering the other team has 2 forwards instead of 3 skating against him.

The team should theoretically not even be in their defensive zone if the PP quarterback is doing his job properly and either helping the team score a goal, or controlling the blue line and not allowing the puck to clear the zone.

I like Reilly, I have a number of Leaf jerseys and wears his the most as it's my lucky jersey, but he has been awful this year, straight up scary awful. Optimistically I even hoped Tessa would somehow make him a better skater, give him tips on how to be lighter on his skates, instead it looks like he's dragging around concrete skates out there compared to only just a season or two ago.

It makes me sad to see how badly he's regressed and afraid of how bad it's gonna get

 

[mapleleaf979]

So what you're saying is the stat is misleading because he's on ice ice for shorthanded goals against, and that doesn't mean he's bad defensively.

Ummm, the powerplay is designed to give the team the overwhelming advantage of having an extra player on the ice and the play start in the offensive zone. When he's the PP quarterback and he's on the ice for goals against that makes his defense even worse considering the other team has 2 forwards instead of 3 skating against him.

The team should theoretically not even be in their defensive zone if the PP quarterback is doing his job properly and either helping the team score a goal, or controlling the blue line and not allowing the puck to clear the zone.

I like Reilly, I have a number of Leaf jerseys and wears his the most as it's my lucky jersey, but he has been awful this year, straight up scary awful. Optimistically I even hoped Tessa would somehow make him a better skater, give him tips on how to be lighter on his skates, instead it looks like he's dragging around concrete skates out there compared to only just a season or two ago.

It makes me sad to see how badly he's regressed and afraid of how bad it's gonna get

Reilly is 15 lbs overweight, that doesnt help his skating. The worst part of Rielly is his mentality. How soft he is and how easy it is to break his will in the corners. Passive and lost running a pp with 4 all stars.

 

[Stephen]

So what you're saying is the stat is misleading because he's on ice ice for shorthanded goals against, and that doesn't mean he's bad defensively.

Ummm, the powerplay is designed to give the team the overwhelming advantage of having an extra player on the ice and the play start in the offensive zone. When he's the PP quarterback and he's on the ice for goals against that makes his defense even worse considering the other team has 2 forwards instead of 3 skating against him.

The team should theoretically not even be in their defensive zone if the PP quarterback is doing his job properly and either helping the team score a goal, or controlling the blue line and not allowing the puck to clear the zone.

I like Reilly, I have a number of Leaf jerseys and wears his the most as it's my lucky jersey, but he has been awful this year, straight up scary awful. Optimistically I even hoped Tessa would somehow make him a better skater, give him tips on how to be lighter on his skates, instead it looks like he's dragging around concrete skates out there compared to only just a season or two ago.

It makes me sad to see how badly he's regressed and afraid of how bad it's gonna get

The crux of the issue is Rielly’s performance, and not the accuracy of the plus minus stat.

Getting into a ground war with Dekes over the validity of how plus minus works and the margins of unfair short handed tallies (how often are SH goals going in?!) is a pure deflection on the topic.

We have enough game footage, contextual information on who is registering these low minus stats around the league, the talking heads are commenting on aspects of the game that there’s more than enough to talk about the player, not some referendum on one stat category.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So what you're saying is the stat is misleading because he's on ice ice for shorthanded goals against, and that doesn't mean he's bad defensively. Ummm, the powerplay is designed to give the team the overwhelming advantage of having an extra player on the ice and the play start in the offensive zone. When he's the PP quarterback and he's on the ice for goals against that makes his defense even worse considering the other team has 2 forwards instead of 3 skating against him.

Goals against on the PP suck, but it's not really representative of normal defensive play. It's generally a result of something like a puck bouncing or a shot block, leading to a quick counter odd man rush or breakaway while your team has no secondary defensive support and everybody is in the offensive zone pushing the other direction. Or just a really weak goal by your goalie.

Have you actually looked at the PP goals against? Rielly barely factored into any of them. One was McCabe going out of position and then the goalie allowing a really weak goal in a nothing 1v2. One was Tavares and Nylander playing 'who can flub their pass worse' at the blueline. One was an empty net goal from behind the opposing goalie's net. And one where Rielly wasn't even on the ice; coming in with the unit change as the puck went in the net.I

The crux of the issue is Rielly’s performance, and not the accuracy of the plus minus stat.

The crux of the issue is people having an incorrect evaluation of Rielly's performance, in part due to poor stats like +/- helping to skew their perception.

 

[Ports]

Goals against on the PP suck, but it's not really representative of normal defensive play. It's generally a result of something like a puck bouncing or a shot block, leading to a quick counter odd man rush or breakaway while your team has no secondary defensive support and everybody is in the offensive zone pushing the other direction. Or just a really weak goal by your goalie.

Have you actually looked at the PP goals against? Rielly barely factored into any of them. One was McCabe going out of position and then the goalie allowing a really weak goal in a nothing 1v2. One was Tavares and Nylander playing 'who can flub their pass worse' at the blueline. One was an empty net goal from behind the opposing goalie's net. And one where Rielly wasn't even on the ice; coming in with the unit change as the puck went in the net.I

The crux of the issue is people having an incorrect evaluation of Rielly's performance, in part due to poor stats like +/- helping to skew their perception.

Forget stats then. You don’t need them to evaluate his play. His poor play is so obvious that every hockey pundit on TV and radio are talking about it. He is not playing at an NHL level and his lack of effort is appalling. The eye test says it all. Sorry to say but continuing to ignore all that is willful blindness.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

He has a NMC so it’s not easy to trade him

This entire team including the water boy have an NMC. We can’t do shit.

 

[likecheese]

This entire team including the water boy have an NMC. We can’t do shit.

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 968136

Dude is gonna go down as one of the biggest bunglers in leaf history

 

[Maple Leaf]

Dude is gonna go down as one of the biggest bunglers in leaf history

and pens history

 

[Racer88]

and pens history

Yup. A total clown show that should be running a house league bantam team

 

[Dekes For Days]

Forget stats then.

You don't just get to ignore the data when the data doesn't agree with you.

He is not playing at an NHL level and his lack of effort is appalling. The eye test says it all.

If you think he's not playing at an NHL level or putting in effort, your eye test is bad.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This entire team including the water boy have an NMC. We can’t do shit.

View attachment 968136

We actually only have 6 NMCs, and 3 were given by Treliving. Though Treliving did also give some form of trade protection to Domi, Kampf, OEL, McCabe, Hakanpaa, Stolarz, and Woll.

 

[Nineteen67]

Dude is gonna go down as one of the biggest bunglers in leaf history

He was terrible and should have never been given the opportunity to apprentice with the Toronto Maple Leafs. However, you can’t ignore the fact that Matthews Marner and Nylander haven’t panned out as hoped, which contributed to his failure.
Granted, after all red flags that were evident early in their careers he should have adjusted.

 

[Ports]

You don't just get to ignore the data when the data doesn't agree with you.

If you think he's not playing at an NHL level or putting in effort, your eye test is bad.

I’m not ignoring the stats. They confirm everything we’re watching. It’s you who’s arguing against using stats to evaluate his play and then you just make excuses for any valid criticism that’s put out there regarding his sub par play.

 

[LeafEgo]

He was terrible and should have never been given the opportunity to apprentice with the Toronto Maple Leafs. However, you can’t ignore the fact that Matthews Marner and Nylander haven’t panned out as hoped, which contributed to his failure.
Granted, after all red flags that were evident early in their careers he should have adjusted.

True, there are no outs for the man at the top. But I also wonder, how much responsibility does the GM and his selected staff have in developing young stars from junior play into NHL winners?

 

[hamzarocks]

I have been so busy flaming nylander for not delivering on his 11.5M deal

That haven't had a chance to call Rielly out for playing like a bum this year.

Rielly needs to be first player moved in the summer if we fall early in the playoffs.

 

[HockeyVirus]

He was terrible and should have never been given the opportunity to apprentice with the Toronto Maple Leafs. However, you can’t ignore the fact that Matthews Marner and Nylander haven’t panned out as hoped, which contributed to his failure.
Granted, after all red flags that were evident early in their careers he should have adjusted.

Haven't turned out as hoped? Good grief

 

[Nineteen67]

Haven't turned out as hoped? Good grief

They won one playoff series and couldn’t beat CBJ to even get in the playoffs one year. We hoped for much better and we still don’t know if they’re good enough, but it’s looking like they’re not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’m not ignoring the stats. They confirm everything we’re watching.

The stats do not support your claims about him. Neither does the eye test.

 

[HockeyVirus]

They won one playoff series and couldn’t beat CBJ to even get in the playoffs one year. We hoped for much better and we still don’t know if they’re good enough, but it’s looking like they’re not.

That is not on 4 players. Absurd logic. Matthews is multi year rocket winner and mvp winner. Marner top 10 winger, Nylander same. To say they didn't develop is just laughable.

It's on management overpaying them and not putting a good enough coach and team around them

 

[Racer88]

That is not on 4 players. Absurd logic. Matthews is multi year rocket winner and mvp winner. Marner top 10 winger, Nylander same. To say they didn't develop is just laughable.

It's on management overpaying them and not putting a good enough coach and team around them

Individual they have developed but I would question are they the right mix.
We have had multiple GM’s, multiple coaches and many many changes to the players surrounding them and still only 1 single round win. That has to mean something…….doesnt it ?

 

[thewave]

That is not on 4 players. Absurd logic. Matthews is multi year rocket winner and mvp winner. Marner top 10 winger, Nylander same. To say they didn't develop is just laughable.

It's on management overpaying them and not putting a good enough coach and team around them

The part always left out.

Overpaying core = Less depth = Less chance to win.

Our fans in a lot of cases can't connect those dots. It's a logical disconnect.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Individual they have developed but I would question are they the right mix.
We have had multiple GM’s, multiple coaches and many many changes to the players surrounding them and still only 1 single round win. That has to mean something…….doesnt it ?

Sure and I said as much. It is on management for paying them too much, never putting the right pieces around them, and never making any changes.

But to suggest they somehow didn't develop as expected is just pure nonsense. The reason we are so disappointed is their clear talent level 95% of the season vs what we get in playoff.

All it takes is 1 deep run to change the narrative but at this point that run isn't coming. But it's not because they didn't hit their potential

 

[Nineteen67]

That is not on 4 players. Absurd logic. Matthews is multi year rocket winner and mvp winner. Marner top 10 winger, Nylander same. To say they didn't develop is just laughable.

It's on management overpaying them and not putting a good enough coach and team around them

They have been pushed out of the playoffs, quite easily, too.