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More MVP Worthy Player: Mackinnon, Kuch or Drai?

lionsDen said:
kucherov will win this season because while their close in points kucherov has more goals

Last year mackinnon had more goals . Kucherov had 44 goals last year and 100 assists and I can’t recall how many more empty net points which watered down the 4 point difference

Mackinnon had 51 goals 89 assist for 140 with less empty net points voters always give the “tie” to more goals.

I love the way you totally ignored the part where I called out the hypocritical post and just double down.


Edit: kucherov winning what argument?

I’d also point out that that Mack was a +35 and kucherov+ 8

I’m sorry you’re polarized bias will not allow you to see how it all works
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+/- is really not a good argument tho. What that does that imply? That kucherov is worse defensively? Then by that logic he was our best defensive forward cause he had the highest +/- last year. Apparently Cirelli and Hagel our best two-way players actually sucked at defense last year cause they were only +1 and +2.

As an Avs fan you should really have understood this by now, cause it happened to you this year. Early in the season your goaltending was shit and your first line was carrying you in games, and all the +/- stats were in the gutter cause your goalies couldn't stop a sneeze. Basically that was the Lightning last year for the full season.
 
Wester said:
+/- is really not a good argument tho. What that does that imply? That kucherov is worse defensively? Then by that logic he was our best defensive forward cause he had the highest +/- last year. Apparently Cirelli and Hagel our best two-way players actually sucked at defense last year cause they were only +1 and +2.

As an Avs fan you should really have understood this by now, cause it happened to you this year. Early in the season your goaltending was shit and your first line was carrying you in games, and all the +/- stats were in the gutter cause your goalies couldn't stop a sneeze. Basically that was the Lightning last year for the full season.
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There is no logic of saying Mackinnon was better than kucherov last year. He scored less points in more games in a weaker conference full of the bottom feeders while kucherov outperformed him in a tougher conference and division who has the defending Champs in it. Kucherov also performed around 0.15 points per game higher against top10 than Mackinnon. Kucherov even had a much larger point gap to the second high scorer on team than mackinnon. Mackinnon is a great player (hof worthy if he continues), but he was not and is the not the best in last two years. If Mackinnon and kucherov switched nationalities it wouldn't even be a debate. It doesn't matter who you pair with kucherov they have their best seasons scoring goals Stamkos, Johnson. Kilhorn, cirelli. Hagel. Palat, Paul, Guentzel, or Point. Can the same be said for Mack? Does he make 10 goal scorers into 20 to 30 goal scorers?Does he make 20 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 30 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 40 goal scorers 50 goal scorers? No but kucherov has consistently elevated and inflated his lineages stats. Look at the cliff they all fall off when they part ways such as palat, Johnson, kilhorn, and stamkos.
 
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Wester said:
+/- is really not a good argument tho. What that does that imply? That kucherov is worse defensively? Then by that logic he was our best defensive forward cause he had the highest +/- last year. Apparently Cirelli and Hagel our best two-way players actually sucked at defense last year cause they were only +1 and +2.

As an Avs fan you should really have understood this by now, cause it happened to you this year. Early in the season your goaltending was shit and your first line was carrying you in games, and all the +/- stats were in the gutter cause your goalies couldn't stop a sneeze. Basically that was the Lightning last year for the full season.
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It’s a stroke in a broader picture. When voters vote they are not gonna dive deep into the bushes. Whether you agree or not. It’s just another data point. And really it was edited into my point
 
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RussianBum86 said:
There is no logic of saying Mackinnon was better than kucherov last year. He scored less points in more games in a weaker conference full of the bottom feeders while kucherov outperformed him in a tougher conference and division who has the defending Champs in it. Kucherov also performed around 0.15 points per game higher against top10 than Mackinnon. Kucherov had a even point game to the second high scorer on team than mackinnon. Mackinnon is a great player but he was not and is the not the best in last two years. If Mackinnon and kucherov switched nationalities it wouldn't even be a debate. It doesn't matter who you pair with kucherov they have their best seasons scoring goals Stamkos, Johnson. Kilhorn, cirelli. Hagel. Palat, Paul, Guentzel, or Point. Can the same be said for Mack? Does he make 10 goal scorers into 20 to 3p goal scorers?Does he make 20 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 30 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 40 goal scorers 50 goal scorers? No but kucherov has consistently elevated and inflated his lineages stats. Look at the cliff they all fall off when they part ways such as palat, Johnson, kilhorn, and stamkos.
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kucherov will win this season because while their close in points kucherov has more goals

Last year mackinnon had more goals . Kucherov had 44 goals last year and 100 assists and I can’t recall how many more empty net points which watered down the 4 point difference

Mackinnon had 51 goals 89 assist for 140 with less empty net points voters always give the “tie” to more goals.

I love the way you totally ignored the part where I called out the hypocritical post and just double down.


Edit: kucherov winning what argument?

I’d also point out that that Mack was a +35 and kucherov+ 8

I’m sorry you’re polarized bias will not allow you to see how it all works
 
RussianBum86 said:
There is no logic of saying Mackinnon was better than kucherov last year. He scored less points in more games in a weaker conference full of the bottom feeders while kucherov outperformed him in a tougher conference and division who has the defending Champs in it. Kucherov also performed around 0.15 points per game higher against top10 than Mackinnon. Kucherov had a even point game to the second high scorer on team than mackinnon. Mackinnon is a great player but he was not and is the not the best in last two years. If Mackinnon and kucherov switched nationalities it wouldn't even be a debate. It doesn't matter who you pair with kucherov they have their best seasons scoring goals Stamkos, Johnson. Kilhorn, cirelli. Hagel. Palat, Paul, Guentzel, or Point. Can the same be said for Mack? Does he make 10 goal scorers into 20 to 3p goal scorers?Does he make 20 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 30 goal scorers 40 goal scorers? Does he make 40 goal scorers 50 goal scorers? No but kucherov has consistently elevated and inflated his lineages stats. Look at the cliff they all fall off when they part ways such as palat, Johnson, kilhorn, and stamkos.
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Lehky, drouin, birakovsky that’s just off the top of my head with little thought. Drouin wasn’t almost out of the league … the answer is yes mackinnon does
 
Anyone who watches the games knows it’s Mac K, produces with any linemate
 
Tulpar said:
Drai plays for a canadian team, so he is almost half canadian. And he is being feeded by a 100% canadian man for the last 8 years. Thus he is 75% Canadian atleast.
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Plastic Joseph said:
"The Russian bum"

Lol can you make 1 single post excluding nationality ?

Nobody called Kucherov a bum. He was MVP runner up last year, that is amazing.

He will probably finish top 2 or top 3 this year depending on Helly. He will finish ahead of Mackinnon this year. Take a breath.
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Current Hart Odds (FanDuel)
Leon -150
Helle +135
MacK +850
Kuch +5500

I am not even shilling for Kucherov to win it, but this tells me one of two things:

A: Vegas is undervaluing Kuch severely and taking him to win the Hart would be a great value bet

B: The PHWA has a serious problem and it is starting to look and feel like anti-Kucherov/anti-Russian bias. Unless MacKinnon does end up taking home the Ross, there is legitimately zero way he should have a better chance than Kucherov, especially THAT much better
 
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lionsDen said:
kucherov will win this season because while their close in points kucherov has more goals

Last year mackinnon had more goals . Kucherov had 44 goals last year and 100 assists and I can’t recall how many more empty net points which watered down the 4 point difference

Mackinnon had 51 goals 89 assist for 140 with less empty net points voters always give the “tie” to more goals.

I love the way you totally ignored the part where I called out the hypocritical post and just double down.


Edit: kucherov winning what argument?

I’d also point out that that Mack was a +35 and kucherov+ 8

I’m sorry you’re polarized bias will not allow you to see how it all works
Click to expand...
Current betting odds indicate that Kucherov has no shot. Per FanDuel the Blues have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup than Kucherov winning the Hart. I still think Leon should win it, but with the way the voters are right now I don't think Kucherov will even finish top 3, which is a travesty.
 
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If mac got it because he is "due" then kuch is more than deserving too. He's having another hell of a season. Screw the Russian thing him and vasi pretty much carry this team. Great support obviously because they're a great team but those two make it go. Kucherov could have won the conn smythe in the cup wins and I don't think anyone would have argued different. Last year if he won the mvp I don't think even avs fan would have had much issue past initial resistance for Mac. His season was that good too. As was mentioned earlier the season is up with the greats in the history of the game. Forget the empty net argument too as we can see that mac is good at that too.
 
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CupsOverCash said:
If mac got it because he is "due" then kuch is more than deserving too. He's having another hell of a season. Screw the Russian thing him and vasi pretty much carry this team. Great support obviously because they're a great team but those two make it go. Kucherov could have won the conn smythe in the cup wins and I don't think anyone would have argued different. Last year if he won the mvp I don't think even avs fan would have had much issue past initial resistance for Mac. His season was that good too. As was mentioned earlier the season is up with the greats in the history of the game. Forget the empty net argument too as we can see that mac is good at that too.
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Nikita Duecherov? I kid, I kid. :snide:
 
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I, for one, think all of these great players are all "due" awards any given year, depending on who has the best year. Any insinuation of narrative playing into these votes is just sour grapes IMO.

I will say I think it's a little weird to suggest Draisaitl should be like the CLEAR favorite since he is going to miss the most games of the top 3, and has double digit fewer points total.

Also: Don't talk to me about Hellebuyck who is likely to play at most like 62 games. Disqualified IMO.

I think Hart should/will go to Kucherov, unless MacKinnon goes nuts in the last 3 games (doubt) and Kucherov stops scoring in his (also doubt). Kucherov has an equivalent point total to MacKinnon despite playing a few less games which I think will be the deciding factor.
 
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CupsOverCash said:
If mac got it because he is "due" then kuch is more than deserving too. He's having another hell of a season. Screw the Russian thing him and vasi pretty much carry this team. Great support obviously because they're a great team but those two make it go. Kucherov could have won the conn smythe in the cup wins and I don't think anyone would have argued different. Last year if he won the mvp I don't think even avs fan would have had much issue past initial resistance for Mac. His season was that good too. As was mentioned earlier the season is up with the greats in the history of the game. Forget the empty net argument too as we can see that mac is good at that too.
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If we go off last years vote. Mack had more goals, less empty net points, 4 less points, it’s opposite this year. Kuch has more goals and they will roughly be the same in points, I don’t know what the empty net points are. I don’t know where to through in helly but if it comes down to just the two, the nod should go to kuch. So this whole duekinnon is a bad narrative. To be frank totally childish.
 
atlanticobserver said:
Current betting odds indicate that Kucherov has no shot. Per FanDuel the Blues have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup than Kucherov winning the Hart. I still think Leon should win it, but with the way the voters are right now I don't think Kucherov will even finish top 3, which is a travesty.
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Betting odds aside STO, is playing really good hockey at the time you wanna do so. Momentum, I can see why they’re getting love. I don’t get the whole reasoning behind helly. Someone care to put out the case for him to win it
 
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