More MVP Worthy Player: Mackinnon, Kuch or Drai?

[Sky04]

Still sour from getting paddled 3 years ago

And your team lost to those 2nd round losers. How embarrassing

True competitors fluke once and never reach the grand stage again. Lucky for them the team they beat was tired from dominating too much. True competitors tho.

 

[T REX]

And your team lost to those 2nd round losers. How embarrassing

The Lightning had what...TWO cups...4 finals...2 ECF and 1 missed playoffs in those 7-8 years? Seriously? Let's take it down a notch. I'm not embarrassed at all by the success Tampa has had. WOuld you?

 

[Fantomas]

I'll say it again: it's Makar. People just instinctively leave a defenseman out of the conversation and it makes no sense. Easily the best player in the league.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Who knows, the Art Ross is now Kucherov's.....99.9% anyway. Looks like MacKinnon is missing the rest of the regular season

Looks like the voters have already made up their minds it's Drai or Helly. None of them were picking Mackinnon anyway. The Arrt Ross didn't seen to factor in to their decision based on the article / betting odds

 

[Nadal On Clay]

That's weird, because the coach himself said this: "He's dealing with something," Colorado coach Jared Bednar said. "I think you get to this point in the year, all these guys are dealing with something. The guys that didn't get the break, too, for the 4 Nations [Face-Off]. This has been a tough stretch of games since then, right? I think rest is part of it, though." - that's like right at the top of the NHL.com article

Any other theories you'd like to try?

What does this prove exactly? That he’s injured? Either way, he’s not going to win and the better player will get it.

I remember when Peter Forsberg won the Hart and Ross, a reporter asked him what he thought about winning the awards. His response was essentially "I'd trade them both for the Cup in a heartbeat." That's what true competitors care about.

And he would take a Ross over nothing.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

What does this prove exactly? That he’s injured?

That he's had the injury - so it's not going to get worse. That was your whole argument

Honestly I don't even care - sure Kucherov so much better! Let's stop having this silly 'discussion'

 

[Plastic Joseph]

What does this prove exactly? That he’s injured? Either way, he’s not going to win and the better player will get it.


And he would take a Ross over nothing.

Yea but no player is going to play with a nagging injury and locked in seeding if they think it would even hurt their cup chances 0.1%, that is the point. Art Ross doesn't really matter to players, or voters.

Kucherov is a great point producer and great player. This is a Hart trophy thread though. Helly or Drai have already locked it in

 

[WPGDEVILS]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again

Helly for MVP

 

[Video Nasty]

I remember when Peter Forsberg won the Hart and Ross, a reporter asked him what he thought about winning the awards. His response was essentially "I'd trade them both for the Cup in a heartbeat." That's what true competitors care about.

No one is going to say otherwise. This isn’t a fairy tale. It all matters to the top of their craft.

 

[Zalos]

Hellebuyck or Kucherov for me.

 

[NatusVincere]

Art Ross doesn't really matter to players, or voters.

Of course, every time a Canadian golden boy isn’t going to win it, it doesn't matter and people know more about puck. For years the only thing going for Crosby and McDavid was their offensive game/points/PPG. Nobody talked a second about defense when Crosby or McDavid won the Hart in their 19/20 year old season.

In 2017 McDavid was 1st in points (100) and had 11 points on Crosby (89) in 7 more games. But Crosby had 14 (!) more goals and was even top 10 in Selke voting (!). Their teams were comparable. The Pens were 2nd in the east, 111 points. The Oilers 4th in the west, 103 points. Crosby had Malkin with 72 points (14th in scoring) and Kessel 70 points (19th in scoring). McDavid had only Drai with 77 points (8 in scoring). The Hart vote was 1604 vs. 1104 or 147 1st place votes for McDavid vs 14 for Crosby.

In 2007 Crosby was 1st in points (120) and had 6 points on Thornton in 3 less games. Both had shitty teams (Pens 5th in the east 105 points, Sharks 5th in the west 107 points) with Crosby outscoring rookie Malkin with 35 points and Recchi, Gonchar with 52 and 53 points. Thornton outscored Marleau with 36 points and Cheechoo, Michalek with 45 and 48 points. Again Thornton received even some Selke votes but he was only 5th in Hart voting, Crosby won it with 1225 votes (against two goalies).

But Thornton had already "its now his turn" Hart in 2006 a la MacKinnon 24. Thornton had 2 points more than Jagr (125 vs 123). Jagr had 25 more goals (!). The Sharks were 5th in the east with 99 points. The Rangers 6th in the west with 100 points. Thornton outscored Cheechoo with 32 points, Marleau with 39 and Ekman with 68. Jagr outscored Nylander with 44 points, Straka with 47 and Rucinsky with 68 points… Thornton won the Hart with 1058 vs 974 votes… But I guess that was a year people knew more about puck…

 

[PhilJets]

Still think should be Helly... he is above and beyond. And he leads a good Jets team into a 1st place team in the league since day 1.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Of course, every time a Canadian golden boy isn’t going to win it, it doesn't matter and people know more about puck. For years the only thing going for Crosby and McDavid was their offensive game/points/PPG. Nobody talked a second about defense when Crosby or McDavid won the Hart in their 19/20 year old season.

In 2017 McDavid was 1st in points (100) and had 11 points on Crosby (89) in 7 more games. But Crosby had 14 (!) more goals and was even top 10 in Selke voting (!). Their teams were comparable. The Pens were 2nd in the east, 111 points. The Oilers 4th in the west, 103 points. Crosby had Malkin with 72 points (14th in scoring) and Kessel 70 points (19th in scoring). McDavid had only Drai with 77 points (8 in scoring). The Hart vote was 1604 vs. 1104 or 147 1st place votes for McDavid vs 14 for Crosby.

In 2007 Crosby was 1st in points (120) and had 6 points on Thornton in 3 less games. Both had shitty teams (Pens 5th in the east 105 points, Sharks 5th in the west 107 points) with Crosby outscoring rookie Malkin with 35 points and Recchi, Gonchar with 52 and 53 points. Thornton outscored Marleau with 36 points and Cheechoo, Michalek with 45 and 48 points. Again Thornton received even some Selke votes but he was only 5th in Hart voting, Crosby won it with 1225 votes (against two goalies).

But Thornton had already "its now his turn" Hart in 2006 a la MacKinnon 24. Thornton had 2 points more than Jagr (125 vs 123). Jagr had 25 more goals (!). The Sharks were 5th in the east with 99 points. The Rangers 6th in the west with 100 points. Thornton outscored Cheechoo with 32 points, Marleau with 39 and Ekman with 68. Jagr outscored Nylander with 44 points, Straka with 47 and Rucinsky with 68 points… Thornton won the Hart with 1058 vs 974 votes… But I guess that was a year people knew more about puck…

FwIw I think Crosby deserved it in 2017.

Thornton had the trade argument but I also felt Jagr was mvp in 06. I think MacKinnon was the right choice last year.

MacKinnon is definitely not mvp this year. He had an outside shot at the AR but he would rather be healthy for playoffs. If he was healthy and could play would he want the AR? Of course, but it's better to be rested for the playoffs.

Of course scoring titles matter to a player and their legacy. But there comes a time when players like MacKinnon who already have an MVP don't care that much about it. I'm sure he wants it, but about 1/1000 as much as he wants a cup. Same goes for kuch I'm sure.

It's not like it's meaningless, but any player would trade their health for a cup run over an award, its fact. Mackinnon must be dealing with something, or he would st least try to win it. I don't think he really cares at the end of the day though. Especially if you win it at the cost of your playoff performance. He played all 82 games last year, played every game this year until now, and played in 4 nations. No shame finshing #2.

So nobody is saying it is a worthless award, just in comparison to a cup No player will risk it this late if they are hurt. Congrats to kuch 3 Art Ross is legendary.

I still don't think he will win the Hart and I think that's fair because he just isn't quite mvp again this year. But scoring titles are big achievements for sure

 

[atlanticobserver]

FwIw I think Crosby deserved it in 2017.

Thornton had the trade argument but I also felt Jagr was mvp in 06. I think MacKinnon was the right choice last year.

MacKinnon is definitely not mvp this year. He had an outside shot at the AR but he would rather be healthy for playoffs. If he was healthy and could play would he want the AR? Of course, but it's better to be rested for the playoffs.

Of course scoring titles matter to a player and their legacy. But there comes a time when players like MacKinnon who already have an MVP don't care that much about it. I'm sure he wants it, but about 1/1000 as much as he wants a cup. Same goes for kuch I'm sure.

It's not like it's meaningless, but any player would trade their health for a cup run over an award, its fact. Mackinnon must be dealing with something, or he would st least try to win it. I don't think he really cares at the end of the day though. Especially if you win it at the cost of your playoff performance. He played all 82 games last year, played every game this year until now, and played in 4 nations. No shame finshing #2.

So nobody is saying it is a worthless award, just in comparison to a cup No player will risk it this late if they are hurt. Congrats to kuch 3 Art Ross is legendary.

I still don't think he will win the Hart and I think that's fair because he just isn't quite mvp again this year. But scoring titles are big achievements for sure

I’m taking your post way too literally here, but it’s kinda funny how Kucherov may or may not have lost MVP votes last year for mailing it in at the all star skills and MacKinnon is kinda revered for not caring about awards.

You’re right that both these players want to win more than just about anybody else and that it’s their priority for sure. They play awfully different styles but I think they’re wired pretty similarly

 

[atlanticobserver]

I'll say it again: it's Makar. People just instinctively leave a defenseman out of the conversation and it makes no sense. Easily the best player in the league.

I really do think he needs to be getting more attention. Are people seriously upset that Pastrnak isn’t getting votes? Because he has propelled Boston from 32nd to 27th or something? And prob will be 20 points below the league leader? Lol Makar is so much more deserving

 

[olli]

Drai that is all as a jets fan Helle doesn’t deserve it but he should be top 3.

 

[Acallabeth]

Hellebyuck's leads in many stats are amazing, but, to be honest, his backup's stats are also better than of many estabilished top goalies in the league.

 

[MardyBum]

Drai that is all as a jets fan Helle doesn’t deserve it but he should be top 3.

He might not rank high in voting because of the inane bias against goalies in the voting for the award, but be absolutely deserves it as much as the other talked about names.

 

[Toby91ca]

Looks like the voters have already made up their minds it's Drai or Helly. None of them were picking Mackinnon anyway. The Arrt Ross didn't seen to factor in to their decision based on the article / betting odds

Whatever you are seeing in articles is meaningless and betting odds? Who comes up with betting odds? Certainly not the voters. NHL.com had Mack as the favourite a couple weeks ago, which was also meaningless

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Whatever you are seeing in articles is meaningless and betting odds? Who comes up with betting odds? Certainly not the voters. NHL.com had Mack as the favourite a couple weeks ago, which was also meaningless

They interviewed actual voters who all said Drai and Helly

It's gonna be one of those 2. Book it

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Still think should be Helly... he is above and beyond. And he leads a good Jets team into a 1st place team in the league since day 1.

Games played this season:

Draisaitl: 71
Kucherov: 74
MacKinnon: 79

Hellebuyck: 61 lol

 

[Kazcram]

I really do think he needs to be getting more attention. Are people seriously upset that Pastrnak isn’t getting votes? Because he has propelled Boston from 32nd to 27th or something? And prob will be 20 points below the league leader? Lol Makar is so much more deserving

Pasta playing with 3rd liners and doing what hes doing is insane , that said being a non playoff team he wont be in the conversation .

 

[King Woodballs]

Games played this season:

Draisaitl: 71
Kucherov: 74
MacKinnon: 79

Hellebuyck: 61 lol

As a goalie…. On the top team in the league.
So if games played are the metric. Cody Ceci should be the hart trophy winner!

 

[a mangy Meowth]

As a goalie…. On the top team in the league.
So if games played are the metric. Cody Ceci should be the hart trophy winner!

Games played are obviously not the only metric lol. However, I don't think goalies play enough of their teams games these days to be considered for the MVP. Just my opinion.

 

[stewy04]

Drai that is all as a jets fan Helle doesn’t deserve it but he should be top 3.

As an Oiler fan I say Helly lol. Great seasons by both