Confirmed with Link: Montreal Canadiens Sign Paul Byron to 4-Year Extension ($3.4M AAV)

[Sorinth]

Absolutely not. Domi does not have a spot "locked up" ahead of Byron. Wingers have to score. Nine goals a year, even including the empty netters, is not scoring much. Domi is either a 2nd line center or a third line winger at best.

The whole wingers need to score and centers need to be playmakers is garbage. Top-six players need to produce period, it doesn't matter whether you do it through scoring or playmaking, wing or center.

I'm not Domi's biggest fan but he put up 45 points last year. That's top-6 production anyway you slice it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The whole wingers need to score and centers need to be playmakers is garbage. Top-six players need to produce period, it doesn't matter whether you do it through scoring or playmaking, wing or center.

I'm not Domi's biggest fan but he put up 45 points last year. That's top-6 production anyway you slice it.

He probably won't get 45 points playing the wing in Montreal, but again I'm not against him getting a chance, I just don't think he is a sure "lock".

 

[Sorinth]

Scherbak should not be handed a top line role. In winning cultures, players EARN their roles. Lehkonen EARNED his status with the club. Scherbak has done nothing but show a flash here and there at the NHL level. By all means give him a chance, but no I do not support clearing out 20 goal-scorers so that he can get a spot by default.

Well it's not clearing out a 20 goal scorer for nothing, it's trading him while his value is high and getting something good in return that will help us down the road.

And if you don't like Sherbak put in Lehkonen or Hudon and my point remains the same. Those 3 all have top-6 potential, but they won't reach their potential unless they get real opportunities in the top-6. That's why you have to plan it out, you don't want a Tatar or Byron blocking the young guys from getting a chance. We saw exactly that with Desharnais. There wasn't room for both him and Galchenyuk, so we stuck Galchenyuk on the wing, then 5 years later when we needed him to step up as a center he still had a bunch of stuff he needed to learn.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Well it's not clearing out a 20 goal scorer for nothing, it's trading him while his value is high and getting something good in return that will help us down the road.

And if you don't like Sherbak put in Lehkonen or Hudon and my point remains the same. Those 3 all have top-6 potential, but they won't reach their potential unless they get real opportunities in the top-6. That's why you have to plan it out, you don't want a Tatar or Byron blocking the young guys from getting a chance. We saw exactly that with Desharnais. There wasn't room for both him and Galchenyuk, so we stuck Galchenyuk on the wing, then 5 years later when we needed him to step up as a center he still had a bunch of stuff he needed to learn.

Gionta did not block Gallagher, and Byron did not block Lehkonen the rookie, and no good player is blocking another good player from getting a bigger role. Some felt that Desharnais blocked Galchenyuk, but that was because they thought Desharnais was UNWORTHY of the role and status he got. If he scored 65 points per year, no one would have made this criticism.

Byron is what he is, and Lehkonen is what he is. Hudon or Scherbak will have to earn their stripes, and if they play well, they will get more chances. That's how the NHL works.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Scherbak should not be handed a top line role. In winning cultures, players EARN their roles. Lehkonen EARNED his status with the club. Scherbak has done nothing but show a flash here and there at the NHL level. By all means give him a chance, but no I do not support clearing out 20 goal-scorers so that he can get a spot by default.

It's an interesting thing you bring up.... The differences between Lehkonen and Scherbak. Think about how the Habs value certain aspects of the game. Lehkonen is well liked cause he makes less mistakes and plays a more safe game. Scherbak has more offensive ability IMO but is trying to adapt and learn on the job.... and the Habs don't give him a top 6 role cause they want him to earn it.

I think the Habs a guilty a bit for not having a bit of trust into guys with talent. Sometimes, you need to protect your players and just let them makes mistakes. Expecting Scherbak to produce by playing with less skilled players is not a recipe for long term success IMO.

A prime example is how they managed Galchenyuk. Constantly up and down the line-up with not much sample size at center. They were way too quick to punish him when he made a mistake. Imagine playing and knowing that you will be criticized every mistake you make.

 

[Milhouse40]

Scherbak should not be handed a top line role. In winning cultures, players EARN their roles. Lehkonen EARNED his status with the club. Scherbak has done nothing but show a flash here and there at the NHL level. By all means give him a chance, but no I do not support clearing out 20 goal-scorers so that he can get a spot by default.

Hmmm.
They GAVE Drouin 1st line minutes without even playing 1 games for the Habs
Same goes for Domi and Armia (so far).
Danault also did shit before starting playing on the top 6

I would agree, once you get a chance, it's his job to keep it....but he has to get a real chance to begin with. And just to be clear, it takes a lot more than that to have a winning culture and i'm afraid MTL will never have a winning culture anymore.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's an interesting thing you bring up.... The differences between Lehkonen and Scherbak. Think about how the Habs value certain aspects of the game. Lehkonen is well liked cause he makes less mistakes and plays a more safe game. Scherbak has more offensive ability IMO but is trying to adapt and learn on the job.... and the Habs don't give him a top 6 role cause they want him to earn it.

I think the Habs a guilty a bit for not having a bit of trust into guys with talent. Sometimes, you need to protect your players and just let them makes mistakes. Expecting Scherbak to produce by playing with less skilled players is not a recipe for long term success IMO.

A prime example is how they managed Galchenyuk. Constantly up and down the line-up with not much sample size at center. They were way too quick to punish him when he made a mistake.

Lehkonen got his 18 goals on the third line and with little PP time. Scherbak has done less with his chances, and he has had some.

Doesn't mean Nikita will never break through. But Lehkonen was more ready for the NHL and put up real numbers, not just "playing well without the puck".

 

[Lshap]

There are two components, the deal itself and the team direction.

The deal is a good length at a reasonable price for what he brings. So it's a good deal and well deserved for Byron.

In terms of direction it's a bit more puzzling. At 3.4m it's a sign that they see him as a 2nd liner more so then a 3rd liner who can step up and fill a hole in the top-6. That assessment is fine, but given the logjam at wing we already have I'm not sure about committing for 4 years.

In some ways it similar to Desharnais's deal in that it lacks planning. When Desharnais re-signed we had Plekanec still producing well, Eller showing a lot of progress, and Galchenyuk on the doorstep. It made no sense to make that long of a commitment given where we should've been moving towards.

It's similar now, the plan has to be Kotkaniemi and Poehling (Or whoever we draft this year) as our top-6 centers fairly soon. That means Drouin, Domi, Gallagher locking up 3 of the 4 top-6 wing spots. Locking up Byron for that 4th spot doesn't make a lot of sense when you have Lehkonen, Hudon, Sherbak pusing for bigger responsibility. They are going to need that spot to continue to develop. So it might make sense to have Byron around for a year or two, while we wait for our centers to develop, but beyond that there's not a lot of room. And although there's always the trade option at that time, in MB's own words, trades are hard. It's better to keep the flexibility of a shorter deal.

Pretty logical take. I agree the plan should be to keep Byron for a season or two and eventually use him as trade bait. But I think trading him will be easier than you think; in fact, I doubt Bergevin has to actively shop him. Byron's skill and contract make him the type of player other GMs seek out and specifically ask about.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's an interesting thing you bring up.... The differences between Lehkonen and Scherbak. Think about how the Habs value certain aspects of the game. Lehkonen is well liked cause he makes less mistakes and plays a more safe game. Scherbak has more offensive ability IMO but is trying to adapt and learn on the job.... and the Habs don't give him a top 6 role cause they want him to earn it.

I think the Habs a guilty a bit for not having a bit of trust into guys with talent. Sometimes, you need to protect your players and just let them makes mistakes. Expecting Scherbak to produce by playing with less skilled players is not a recipe for long term success IMO.

A prime example is how they managed Galchenyuk. Constantly up and down the line-up with not much sample size at center. They were way too quick to punish him when he made a mistake. Imagine playing and knowing that you will be criticized every mistake you make.

Galchenyuk was our 1C until Chu Rien came in.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hmmm.
They GAVE Drouin 1st line minutes without even playing 1 games for the Habs
Same goes for Domi and Armia (so far).
Danault also did **** before starting playing on the top 6

I would agree, once you get a chance, it's his job to keep it....but he has to get a real chance to begin with. And just to be clear, it takes a lot more than that to have a winning culture and i'm afraid MTL will never have a winning culture anymore.

The top line is Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Domi and Armia have got PRE-SEASON trials on the second line. No problem!

Drouin was given a chance at 1C because he proved in the 2016 playoffs he could produce, and the Habs had no one else anyway.

Danault did GREAT on the fourth line, then third line before getting a chance on one of the top two lines.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Lehkonen got his 18 goals on the third line and with little PP time. Scherbak has done less with his chances, and he has had some.

Doesn't mean Nikita will never break through. But Lehkonen was more ready for the NHL and put up real numbers, not just "playing well without the puck".

that's nice that 18 of his points are goals, but lets not act like Lehkonen is more than a 20 or so points player so far...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lehkonen got his 18 goals on the third line and with little PP time. Scherbak has done less with his chances, and he has had some.

Doesn't mean Nikita will never break through. But Lehkonen was more ready for the NHL and put up real numbers, not just "playing well without the puck".

I totally understand what you are saying. But Lehkonen came over seas and it was to make the NHL roster or go back to Europe. Habs gave him every opportunity they could and because Lehkonen does the small things well and plays a more simple game, he got his opportunity by playing a full season where the Habs knew he was going back to Europe if he didn't make the big club

I think skill players like Scherbak and Galchenyuk should be treated differently. They need oppertunity by playing with other skilled forwards if you are going to see them show their potential. Lehkonen is able to survive on the 3rd line cause he might be a 3rd line player in the end. Guys like Galchenyuk and Scherbak are top 6 potential and we will never know if they will be top 6 if they are inserted in the top 6 for a solid sample size.

Hard for me to explain but I think skilled players need to play with skilled players in order to see what they can do. Scherbak's problem is he played AHL and did he have skilled players to play with? NO! Add his injury problems and I think his development has been stalled a bit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Galchenyuk was our 1C until Chu Rien came in.

True but he got hurt and we were trying to win a division/make the playoffs. When he came back, they didn't have confidence in him at all. In his 6 seasons with the Habs, he never played one full season at center. I find that ridiculous... we can blame whoever we want but we drafted him as a center and he didn't even play center for one full season in the 6 years he was with us.

To reinforce my point... Look at Galchenyuk's stats when he played center and with skilled players (End of 2016 and beginning of 2017). He produced. But for some reason, the Habs demoted him time and time again. I know he has to mature but I don't think we managed him correctly. We treated him like a vet because he started in the NHL at age 18.

Think about how it looks if he plays center for full year in the desert and gets 30 goals and 60+ pts. It's possible they get frustrated with him and demote him but something tells me they will be patient with him and at least let him play center for one full year.

We raised a kid and treated him like he should of been Crosby. We jumped on him every mistake he made. That's not how you should raise a kid and develop their confidence

 

[BaseballCoach]

that's nice that 18 of his points are goals, but lets not act like Lehkonen is more than a 20 or so points player so far...

I'm not acting like anything. When we were talking about who is a lock for a top-4 winger position, I only said Drouin and Gallagher. Everyone else will need to show what they can continue to do, or start doing.

 

[BaseballCoach]

True but he got hurt and we were trying to win a division/make the playoffs. When he came back, they didn't have confidence in him at all. In his 6 seasons with the Habs, he never played one full season at center. I find that ridiculous... we can blame whoever we want but we drafted him as a center and he didn't even play center for one full season in the 6 years he was with us.

To reinforce my point... Look at Galchenyuk's stats when he played center and with skilled players (End of 2016 and beginning of 2017). He produced. But for some reason, the Habs demoted him time and time again. I know he has to mature but I don't think we managed him correctly. We treated him like a vet because he started in the NHL at age 18.

Think about how it looks if he plays center for full year in the desert and gets 30 goals and 60+ pts. It's possible they get frustrated with him and demote him but something tells me they will be patient with him and at least let him play center for one full year.

Except for while he was injured, Galchenyuk had been our 1C for 13 months when Chu Rien arrived.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I'm not acting like anything. When we were talking about who is a lock for a top-4 winger position, I only said Drouin and Gallagher. Everyone else will need to show what they can continue to do, or start doing.

Domi shown he can produce 40+ points, Lehkonon shown he can produce half those 40 points.

Domi is one of the new toys, so he won't need to show anything to start on the first line
(that's how it works in Bergevin world - see Drouin last season)

 

[ZUKI]

Signing him for term takes you out of the deadline Ufa market, which is the most valuable point to sell good cheap support players.

Most valuable point to sell to cup contender teams that will give let say a second choice but very late in the round . A signed Byron could be also a good value for a lot of teams , even if they are not contenders

 

[BaseballCoach]

I totally understand what you are saying. But Lehkonen came over seas and it was to make the NHL roster or go back to Europe. Habs gave him every opportunity they could and because Lehkonen does the small things well and plays a more simple game, he got his opportunity by playing a full season where the Habs knew he was going back to Europe if he didn't make the big club

I think skill players like Scherbak and Galchenyuk should be treated differently. They need oppertunity by playing with other skilled forwards if you are going to see them show their potential. Lehkonen is able to survive on the 3rd line cause he might be a 3rd line player in the end. Guys like Galchenyuk and Scherbak are top 6 potential and we will never know if they will be top 6 if they are inserted in the top 6 for a solid sample size.

Hard for me to explain but I think skilled players need to play with skilled players in order to see what they can do. Scherbak's problem is he played AHL and did he have skilled players to play with? NO! Add his injury problems and I think his development has been stalled a bit.

You can't compare Galchenyuk and Scherbak. It's not even close. Galchenyuk was scoring 2 ppg in his 18-yo season in the OHL. He was a 3rd overall pick, and probably could have been second. In the pre-season games before he made the Habs, he was very good, much better than Scherbak ever showed.

I'm ok with us still giving Scherbak another chance, but you can't just lump him in with Galchenyuk.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can't compare Galchenyuk and Scherbak. It's not even close. Galchenyuk was scoring 2 ppg in his 18-yo season in the OHL. He was a 3rd overall pick, and probably could have been second. In the pre-season games before he made the Habs, he was very good, much better than Scherbak ever showed.

I'm ok with us stillg iving Scherbak another chance, but you can't just lump him in with Galchenyuk.

I'm not saying Scherbak and Galchenyuk are the same talent. I'm talking about opportunity and how they can show you what they can do by playing with other talent and not bottom of the line-up players. They are not the types to play a simple game. They are the types that take chances and feed off other talent. Lehkonen is not the same type of player.

 

[Censored Toad]

Good deal. I like Byron.

I would have preferred if he was moved this season though.

Perfect Summary!

 

[Sorinth]

Gionta did not block Gallagher, and Byron did not block Lehkonen the rookie, and no good player is blocking another good player from getting a bigger role. Some felt that Desharnais blocked Galchenyuk, but that was because they thought Desharnais was UNWORTHY of the role and status he got. If he scored 65 points per year, no one would have made this criticism.

Byron is what he is, and Lehkonen is what he is. Hudon or Scherbak will have to earn their stripes, and if they play well, they will get more chances. That's how the NHL works.

Gionta didn't block Gallagher because there was still a top-6 spot available for him (Largely because Bourque was injured and terrible).

Even if Desharnais was putting up 65 points a year, Galchenyuk's development is still blocked because there is still no room for him to get his opportunity to play center in the top-6. The only difference is that at 65 points a year it maybe changes things so that it becomes the right call to sacrifice Galchenyuk's development, or maybe it becomes Plekanec who is the one "blamed" with blocking his development.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Domi shown he can produce 40+ points, Lehkonon shown he can produce half those 40 points.

Domi is one of the new toys, so he won't need to show anything to start on the first line
(that's how it works in Bergevin world - see Drouin last season)

Agree about the shiny new toy thing, I coined the phrase in the first place.

Note, however, that in his rookie season, Lehks scored 18 goals and 28 points in 73 games, a pace of 20-11-31. Only 4 points on the PP. Ice time 13:52 per game.

Domi last year had 45 points but 9 were on the PP and four were ENG, while he got 16:42 of ice time.

I don't see double the production here.

Domi could be a good player, let's see him overcome his temper issues and show it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm not saying Scherbak and Galchenyuk are the same talent. I'm talking about opportunity and how they can show you what they can do by playing with other talent and not bottom of the line-up players. They are not the types to play a simple game. They are the types that take chances and feed off other talent. Lehkonen is not the same type of player.

I'm not sure of that. I personally believe Lehkonen could score 30-35 playing with an elite playmaker. We just didn't have one. Hopefully one will be here soon, if not this year, then next year.

 

[26Mats]

I'm not saying Scherbak and Galchenyuk are the same talent. I'm talking about opportunity and how they can show you what they can do by playing with other talent and not bottom of the line-up players. They are not the types to play a simple game. They are the types that take chances and feed off other talent. Lehkonen is not the same type of player.

I think we're going to miss Galchenyuk's talent this year. It's great that Kotkaniemi is emerging as a talent, particularly at center. But we need more of those players that can make something from nothing. Plus, Scherbak played really well with Galchenyuk. Scherbak is not ready to carry his own line offensively. But put him with other offensive players and he can finish plays or put other players in good position with his vision.

Scherbak has the right attitude. I think this summer he focused on getting stronger because of his injuries. Now we, and I imagine he, see that he needs to work on his fitness and endurance. I would definitely keep him on the team and work on that instead of losing him for nothing or trading him for a 3rd rounder. Even if he's not playing, he can be put through rigorous fitness exercises by the strength and conditioning coaches.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm not saying Scherbak and Galchenyuk are the same talent. I'm talking about opportunity and how they can show you what they can do by playing with other talent and not bottom of the line-up players. They are not the types to play a simple game. They are the types that take chances and feed off other talent. Lehkonen is not the same type of player.

Scherbak got some chances with top players, at least as many as Jacob deLaRose. Well, DLR scored more ES points per game when playing with better players than Scherbak did. And DLR rightly still is not a lock for a top line.