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HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 3

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Beendair Donedat said:
A bold claim.

Reggie Houle gave away the greatest goalie of all time for magic beans. Not even magic beans. Just beans.

Gave away Damphousse and Recchi for nothing, and managed to turn Pierre Turgeon AND Craig Conroy into Shayne Corson and Murray Barron.

There’s 4 Hall of Famer’s for a net profit of negative 5000. It may never be replicated.

I hated Bargain Bin, but Reggie Houle might be the worst NHL GM of all time.
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Houle had economic restrictions placed on him that Bergevin never had. Not an excuse, just context.
 
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ReHabs said:
Houle had economic restrictions placed on him that Bergevin never had. Not an excuse, just context.
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I will give you that as a small point. I mean Serge Savard said that he had a deal worked out for Roy that included getting Owen Nolan and other pieces coming back to Montreal. Much better than what dumbass Houle managed to get - plus he threw in the captain Mike Keane!!!

You can’t tell me that he got anything close to value on what he gave away. He managed to turn dollars into nickels pretty easily.
 
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Beendair Donedat said:
A bold claim.

Reggie Houle gave away the greatest goalie of all time for magic beans. Not even magic beans. Just beans.

Gave away Damphousse and Recchi for nothing, and managed to turn Pierre Turgeon AND Craig Conroy into Shayne Corson and Murray Barron.

There’s 4 Hall of Famer’s for a net profit of negative 5000. It may never be replicated.

I hated Bargain Bin, but Reggie Houle might be the worst NHL GM of all time.
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Reggie Houle,was a puppet..............you are really talking about Ronald Corey.
Greatest goalie of all time??? I loved Patrick but seriously, he was not the greatest......one of but not The greatest.

Anyhow Bergevin is clear and away winner of stupidity while running the team.
 
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BLONG7 said:
Reggie Houle,was a puppet..............you are really talking about Ronald Corey.
Greatest goalie of all time??? I loved Patrick but seriously, he was not the greatest......one of but not The greatest.

Anyhow Bergevin is clear and away winner of stupidity while running the team.
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that's very debatable in my opinion he was one of the greatest if not the greatest goalie of all time.
 
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BLONG7 said:
Reggie Houle,was a puppet..............you are really talking about Ronald Corey.
Greatest goalie of all time??? I loved Patrick but seriously, he was not the greatest......one of but not The greatest.

Anyhow Bergevin is clear and away winner of stupidity while running the team.
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Roy is absolutely in the conversation as the greatest goaltender of all time. Hasek is the only other name in that discussion for me and he never did what Roy did in the post season. Brodeur was a very good goalie but was overrated imo and benefited enormously from playing behind the best defensive team of his era and the coaching of Jacques Lemaire. Montreal's last Cup win would have been in 1979 if any other goalie not named Patrick Roy was in net for their 1986 and 1993 championship runs. Hasek would have eventually choked or got injured as he commonly did in the playoffs and Brodeur would not have stole the games that Patty did.

He is the only goaltender and incredibly the only player with 3 Conn Smythe awards and there has never been a goaltender who twice was such a clear and obvious choice as the playoff MVP.

There is no rational argument that has him anything less than the greatest playoff goaltender in modern history and that is easily the most important distinction when assessing who the greatest goalie of all time is.
 
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Estimated_Prophet said:
Roy is absolutely in the conversation as the greatest goaltender of all time. Hasek is the only other name in that discussion for me and he never did what Roy did in the post season. Brodeur was a very good goalie but was overrated imo and benefited enormously from playing behind the best defensive team of his era and the coaching of Jacques Lemaire. Montreal's last Cup win would have been in 1979 if any other goalie not named Patrick Roy was in net for their 1986 and 1993 championship runs. Hasek would have eventually choked or got injured as he commonly did in the playoffs and Brodeur would not have stole the games that Patty did.

He is the only goaltender and incredibly the only player with 3 Conn Smythe awards and there has never been a goaltender who twice was such a clear and obvious choice as the playoff MVP.

There is no rational argument that has him anything less than the greatest playoff goaltender in modern history and that is easily the most important distinction when assessing who the greatest goalie of all time is.
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Hasek is the greatest.. Roy is 2nd.. then Brodeur is solidly in 3rd, and the debate goes from there.
 
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Beendair Donedat said:
I will give you that as a small point. I mean Serge Savard said that he had a deal worked out for Roy that included getting Owen Nolan and other pieces coming back to Montreal. Much better than what dumbass Houle managed to get - plus he threw in the captain Mike Keane!!!

You can’t tell me that he got anything close to value on what he gave away. He managed to turn dollars into nickels pretty easily.
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You didn’t like Roy/Keane for Rucinksky/kovalenko and Thibault? I don’t blame that all on Houle. He wasn’t the idiot who forced him out of town. He had a mandate to unload Patrick quickly, so that’s what he did.
 
Vachon23 said:
He should have gone all in when he arrived when
Price/Subban/Pac entered their prime and Plekanec/Markov where still good player. Overpay for a #1 C
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Don't think they had the assets to get that impact center. That was a topic that was discussed over and over again.

Regardless, A true rebuild for me is core pieces in place as well as the depth behind them to support it. Otherwise, you are forced to fill holes with trades and UFA and that can create cap issues. Ask the Leafs and Oilers.

I think we are in a very good spot. If guys like Slaf, Hutson, Demidov (Add Dach to that list as well) support this core as legit top of the line-up assets, this team is going to be a top 10 or top 5 contender. The depth behind the core is unreal IMO.

Will be interesting to monitor Dach's progression as a top 2C. Lets say he struggles to play at that high level game/game, what does our management do? Do we try Demidov at center?
 
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Habs Halifax said:
Don't think they had the assets to get that impact center. That was a topic that was discussed over and over again.

Regardless, A true rebuild for me is core pieces in place as well as the depth behind them to support it. Otherwise, you are forced to fill holes with trades and UFA and that can create cap issues. Ask the Leafs and Oilers.

I think we are in a very good spot. If guys like Slaf, Hutson, Demidov (Add Dach to that list as well) support this core as legit top of the line-up assets, this team is going to be a top 10 or top 5 contender. The depth behind the core is unreal IMO.

Will be interesting to monitor Dach's progression as a top 2C. Lets say he struggles to play at that high level game/game, what does our management do? Do we try Demidov at center?
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Michael Hage and I would expect our top pick this year to also be a centerman unless we win the lottery and can pick Porter Martone.
 
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink said:
Jfresh is a certified idiot.

Expected goals for/against has got to be one of the stupidest advanced stats ever.

This should have gone it, but didn't. So, OMGZ advanced stats for youuuuuuuuuuu

Does that mean Montreal has been good defensively ? Not at all.
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I don’t like him either, but he’s not wrong. Our defensive structure is awful and I still haven’t seen any progression in that department
 
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink said:
Jfresh is a certified idiot.

Expected goals for/against has got to be one of the stupidest advanced stats ever.

This should have gone it, but didn't. So, OMGZ advanced stats for youuuuuuuuuuu

Does that mean Montreal has been good defensively ? Not at all.
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any stats using the same metrics and having us last cant be good no matter who delivers the data
 
Vachon23 said:
I don’t like him either, but he’s not wrong. Our defensive structure is awful and I still haven’t seen any progression in that department
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No, but that's because he doesn't play one fixed structure. He does positional, then man-to-man, so you gotta learn when to stay and when to go.

It's a really stupid system it's why it will be 5 on 5, but the other team can get someone wide open easily.

The core might learn it and that will just leave the cast of revolving side players to understand it, which might work, but right now the main players don't get it and it's been a few years.
 
Ieatsht4brkfst said:
any stats using the same metrics and having us last cant be good no matter who delivers the data
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The problem is the stat used doesn't really represent what it says it represents. It's not quite as misleading as the giveaway stat tends to be, but it's just not a very accurate measure of expected goals, it's probably in some ways worse then just the shot counts because it's more misleading.
 
The Last Red said:
There doesn't seem to be any sort of "defensive structure" actually.
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They’re supposed to be playing man on man to pressure the puck faster for possession vs zone that majority of teams employ

Question to be asked: is the current roster construct capable of carrying out such a defensive strategy?? Just maybe the strategy is not to blame, and the process is a work in progress as roster turnover continues
 
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