Mo Rielly - "Our Norris Trophy Candidate"

[LeafsGuy16]

Then there are teams that won Cups without #1 defensemen. Pittsburgh both times and Washington had #1 defensemen who were not elite defensively. They were about as good as Rielly has been, both offensively and defensively (and let's not pretend they did not have stellar offenses to work with either).

Rielly has been doing it without a top pairing partner either. Brodie is the best guy he has had but even he is a good #3 at best. He doesn't bring enough offense and his defensive game is not elite enough to be considered a top pairing defenseman.

I never said that you NEED a number 1 dman to win a cup. Although I think Letang and Carlson are both superior dmen. Either way, I do believe that you need to allocate dollars effectively to win a cup. Rielly is a good dman. But in IMO he’s not a true number 1 and therefore should not be paid like one.

You say Brodie is at best a number 3. I think he’s better than Rielly. Push comes to shove and I HAVE to choose to dress only one of them in a playoff game - I choose Brodie.

 

[The Apologist]

It's a good thing Toronto won that barn burner last night, we all would have gone to bed a little bit more upset with the Formenton goal while PP1 was out there.

I watched that goal and still dont understand the hate on Rielly. The puck was headed out of the zone. He moved over and tried to save it. Got caught by a forechecking forward.

What would you have done differently exactly?

Rielly seems to be getting a lot of unwarranted hate lately. Meanwhile, certain other defensive stalwarts were burned time and again and not a peep.

 

[Stephen]

I watched that goal and still dont understand the hate on Rielly. The puck was headed out of the zone. He moved over and tried to save it. Got caught by a forechecking forward.

What would you have done differently exactly?

Rielly seems to be getting a lot of unwarranted hate lately. Meanwhile, certain other defensive stalwarts were burned time and again and not a peep.

He could have chipped it into the right wing area or exited the zone and regrouped...

 

[Puckstuff]

I watched that goal and still dont understand the hate on Rielly. The puck was headed out of the zone. He moved over and tried to save it. Got caught by a forechecking forward.

What would you have done differently exactly?

Rielly seems to be getting a lot of unwarranted hate lately. Meanwhile, certain other defensive stalwarts were burned time and again and not a peep.

Nobody hates Rielly we just expect after 8 seasons he could maybe learn to defend a 2 on 1

 

[The Apologist]

He could have chipped it into the right wing area or exited the zone and regrouped...

Possibly except his back was to the forward while trying to corral the puck. I could just as easily ask why Marner stopped skating instead of backing of Rielly when he went to play the puck. Formenton made a nice play and outskated both Mitch and Morgen.

Now Muzzin and Holl? They were a hot mess last night.

 

[Beyonder91]

Rielly is the perfect example of how advanced stats can be deceiving

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I never said that you NEED a number 1 dman to win a cup. Although I think Letang and Carlson are both superior dmen. Either way, I do believe that you need to allocate dollars effectively to win a cup. Rielly is a good dman. But in IMO he’s not a true number 1 and therefore should not be paid like one.

You say Brodie is at best a number 3. I think he’s better than Rielly. Push comes to shove and I HAVE to choose to dress only one of them in a playoff game - I choose Brodie.

My goodness things are just completely out of hand now.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Rielly is the perfect example of how advanced stats can be deceiving

I think he is a better example of how the vast majority of fans don't know a good hockey player from a bad one.

 

[LeafsGuy16]

My goodness things are just completely out of hand now.

Because you say so? If you want to have a discussion, let’s have one. Otherwise, why quote me?

Morgan Rielly is an elite elite skater. But I find him to be pretty average everywhere else. Like I’ve said MANY times, he’s a solid dman. I love Morgan Rielly. I want to resign him. But I definitely wouldn’t overpay - unless you still think he has another level? I don’t see it right now. Hopefully he proves me wrong in the playoffs.

 

[LeafsGuy16]

Also, I don’t think Brodie and Rielly are far off here. I love Brodie too and have him slightly ahead of Rielly, total package. I just love Brodie’s game and think it’s perfect for a top pair in the playoffs.

My point wasn’t that Rielly isn’t a good dman. It’s that IMO he’s closer to a solid #2 (Brodie), than a true #1 (Doughty, Pietrangelo, prime Keith, Hedman, prime Weber, etc.)

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Because you say so? If you want to have a discussion, let’s have one. Otherwise, why quote me?

Morgan Rielly is an elite elite skater. But I find him to be pretty average everywhere else. Like I’ve said MANY times, he’s a solid dman. I love Morgan Rielly. I want to resign him. But I definitely wouldn’t overpay - unless you still think he has another level? I don’t see it right now. Hopefully he proves me wrong in the playoffs.

He's above average defensively and he one of the top offensive guys in the NHL. He's significantly better than Brodie. It is not even close. Rielly carries that pairing, just like he carries all of his pairings in the past. Brodie is the closest he had for an equal in his career, but he is not even remotely on Rielly's level. Brodie is great at 2-on-1's, and has been able to keep up with Rielly better than most, but he is not exactly special at anything else. And that is fine, because Rielly just needs a reliable guy to be a #1. Brodie is reliable. Like a younger and better Hainsey.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Nobody hates Rielly we just expect after 8 seasons he could maybe learn to defend a 2 on 1

Brodie is a superior 2 on 1 defender for sure...better instincts. If you are putting that 3rd goal on Rielly tonight though... i will disagree. He didn't let Anderson narrow the angle by giving away ice and he had a right shot to deal with so you are never going to come across with the stick. I think Jack is thinking about his push and Josh rips it short side... i didn't think Rielly blew how he played that one.

 

[klmdg]

Signing him to max term is insane IMO. He's already racked up a lot of leg injuries, they're only going to get worse with age. If his skating drops down to even just average, that contract becomes an anchor. He doesn't have the IQ, wingspan, or physicality to age gracefully. His game is 100% dependent on him being able to skate faster than 95% of his opponents.

Exactly how I see it

His skating is no longer elite and his lack of hockey IQ is being exposed on a nightly basis because of that fact alone

I have no problem riding out his current deal but there is no way I go big dollars on him with Sandin waiting in the wings

 

[sxvnert]

This summer is the perfect time to sell high and move him to a team desperate for a puck mover. Paying him the 7-9m he'll no doubt command after getting screwed the first time around is insane.

A 2022 1st + top prospect isn't an unreasonable demand with a bargain 1yr/5m left on his deal.

Muzzin Holl
Sandin Brodie
------- Bogo

Put the extra cap towards an above average D partner for bogo or acquire a top young D as part of the package in return for Mo.

 

[klmdg]

Brodie is a superior 2 on 1 defender for sure...better instincts. If you are putting that 3rd goal on Rielly tonight though... i will disagree. He didn't let Anderson narrow the angle by giving away ice and he had a right shot to deal with so you are never going to come across with the stick. I think Jack is thinking about his push and Josh rips it short side... i didn't think Rielly blew how he played that one.

He waits too long on 2 on 1's allowing the opposition to get too deep before he commits himself

The pass was still available right up until the shot and that is inexcusible for an NHL D-man with that many games under his belt

Campbell was forced deeper into his crease because the pass was never forced or taken away

Brodie is elite at forcing the play earlier and that allows the goalie precious time to adjust accordingly

 

[Stephen]

He waits too long on 2 on 1's allowing the opposition to get too deep before he commits himself

The pass was still available right up until the shot and that is inexcusible for an NHL D-man with that many games under his belt

Campbell was forced deeper into his crease because the pass was never forced or taken away

Brodie is elite at forcing the play earlier and that allows the goalie precious time to adjust accordingly

It looked like he took one crossover too many to the center of the ice at the Leaf blueline instead of closing the angle on Anderson to force him wider. Mikheyev was closing in on Kulak and he could have taken that risk, but stayed at center to really do anything other than to welcome Anderson to the ideal shot location at the faceoff dot.

 

[Stephen]

This summer is the perfect time to sell high and move him to a team desperate for a puck mover. Paying him the 7-9m he'll no doubt command after getting screwed the first time around is insane.

A 2022 1st + top prospect isn't an unreasonable demand with a bargain 1yr/5m left on his deal.

Muzzin Holl
Sandin Brodie
------- Bogo

Put the extra cap towards an above average D partner for bogo or acquire a top young D as part of the package in return for Mo.

Hamilton and Jones are both headed to UFA this summer and next summer respectively, so if you're looking for a franchise changing Kawhi moment here's your chance.

 

[sxvnert]

Hamilton and Jones are both headed to UFA this summer and next summer respectively, so if you're looking for a franchise changing Kawhi moment here's your chance.

Both would probably demand a similar salary.

Looking for a D thats sound in their own end and good enough to move the puck out to the forwards. Basically three pairs of Muzzin/Holl.

-------- Brodie
Muzzin Holl
--------- Bogo

Put Sandin in one, and Oleksiak or someone similar in salary and ability in the other.

 

[IPS]

Hamilton and Jones are both headed to UFA this summer and next summer respectively, so if you're looking for a franchise changing Kawhi moment here's your chance.

Jones is UFA next summer. He still has another year on his deal after this year. He'd be a much better option than Hamilton IMO. Maybe Jarmo says f*** it and gets assets for Jones before risking letting him walk.

 

[Avilaj07]

I really hope Dubas explores trading Rielly this off season. I really don't see what some posters keep suggesting that he's been great. He's been declining ever since he had his breakout year.

Offensively he doesn't do anything. He skates fast and that's about it. He lacks serious iq, decision making, and skill. Can't hit the net, tries to force countless plays which results in massive turnovers, is constantly pinching in without any care if he has anyone covering him. On the powerplay he's just absolutely useless.

Defensively he's probably our worst defenseman. Can't win a board battle, tries to be cute with the puck, horrible coverage, and instead of making a smart play, he's constantly looking for a home run play which again results in turnovers.

Dubas has to make a tough decision but the right decision would be moving on from Rielly and getting someone who fits this team better and for the love of God, someone who can take a shot.

 

[hotpaws]

with Andy and Willie out it looks like Rielly has become the favorite to take over as the whipping boy since he's wasn't acquired by Dubie and lol at people trying to blame Mo for that weak goal allowed by Campbell who was too deep in his net and not squared up to the shooter

and if Andy let that goal in he would have been torn to shreds but since it was soupy some feel the need to shift the blame to others for some reason

 

[Mickey Marner]

He'll probably get some Norris votes, but Brodie -who likely won't get any- is more deserving. Just the way the trophy works.

 

[Avilaj07]

with Andy and Willie out it looks like Rielly has become the favorite to take over as the whipping boy since he's wasn't acquired by Dubie and lol at people trying to blame Mo for that weak goal allowed by Campbell who was too deep in his net and not squared up to the shooter

and if Andy let that goal in he would have been torn to shreds but since it was soupy some feel the need to shift the blame to others for some reason

While Campbell didn't position himself that great on the Anderson goal, Rielly also didn't help out either. Mikheyev was backchecking and was pretty much even with Suzuki. Rielly needs to realize Anderson was the puck carrier and that it would've taken a near perfect pass to get to Suzuki. If Rielly would've just played Anderson man on, that goal doesn't happen.

But Rielly once again, that just shows the lack of iq Rielly has. It's one thing knowing how to play defense, but also having the awareness of who the puck carrier. Ask yourself this, if Matthews was coming down down on a partial 2 on 1, do you think the defenseman gives him an open lane to the net and gives him a free shot or does the defenseman force Matthews to either make a difficult pass or rush his shot? I'm going with the defenseman forcing him

 

[hotpaws]

While Campbell didn't position himself that great on the Anderson goal, Rielly also didn't help out either. Mikheyev was backchecking and was pretty much even with Suzuki. Rielly needs to realize Anderson was the puck carrier and that it would've taken a near perfect pass to get to Suzuki. If Rielly would've just played Anderson man on, that goal doesn't happen.

But Rielly once again, that just shows the lack of iq Rielly has. It's one thing knowing how to play defense, but also having the awareness of who the puck carrier. Ask yourself this, if Matthews was coming down down on a partial 2 on 1, do you think the defenseman gives him an open lane to the net and gives him a free shot or does the defenseman force Matthews to either make a difficult pass or rush his shot? I'm going with the defenseman forcing him

ask yourself this

if Andy was in goal how many of the people blaming Mo would switch to blaming Andy ?

 

[Stephen]

ask yourself this

if Andy was in goal how many of the people blaming Mo would switch to blaming Andy ?

Rielly has been on the ice for 4 of the 9 goals Toronto has given up in the in the past 2 games and two of them were botched possession plays in the offensive zone, so he’s clearly been involved in some high profile defensive breakdowns worthy of some criticism whether it’s Andersen or Campbell letting in softies.