Mo Rielly - "Our Norris Trophy Candidate"

[Gary Nylund]

I understood him as making a point that others don't watch enough hockey to form a valid opinion.

Seems like you agreed, then questioned me and Zeke about the amount we watch.

Actually my issue is your double standard. You want significant proof and backup for numbers, but are willing to form your opinion on admittedly limited (or non existent) viewing.

I'm sure @zeke is a big boy and can handle himself. I know I can. Call it what it is though and don't pretend you're on some truth hunt to ensure the board is providing adequate backup and substance for their opinion.

He made that point but the 1 to 10 comment was obvious sarcasm. Maybe read the post again, I'd be surprised if you (or anyone really) saw it differently.

We've been through my opinions, why not take it on case by case basis, I always answer when people ask me to justify my opinions, Zeke deflects and ignores and sometimes I have to ask 3-4 times before he answers.

You've asked me a bunch of questions today, haven't I answered every single one?

Yes I'm sure he's a big boy, perhaps you've made enough posts now sticking up for him?

Zeke copy pasting numbers without anything to say what his point is (and I do mean zero words to explain) is a pet peeve of mine I suppose, perhaps you can forgive me. At any rate, I've already said I won't be asking him any more question so you can rest easy.

I think we've derailed this discussion enough. You must have asked me over a dozen questions by now, far less than I've asked you and I think we're done here. If you really think we need to discuss this further, PM me. I probably won't respond until tomorrow though, I just don't have the time right now.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

For me you want to be considered for a Norris trophy as best dman in hockey then you have to be able to do it all ... same as a Hart trophy ... problem is non-hockey people voting and their perceptions ...to me if you have not played at minimum in O/Q/W then you should not have a vote ... it is why I would never ever ever give McJesus da Hart (almost zero defense) ... same reason why Karlsson and Subban should never ever ever win da Norris ... these are 1 dimensional players ... to win da Hart you must be great offensively first and foremost, defensively and carry your team when your team needs it most importantly ... to win a Norris you must be a top defensive player first and foremost who your team puts on ice to lockdown games, then you must contribute on PK, then you must contribute offensively 5on5 and lastly on PP ... to me really only a few guys qualify Doughty, Hedman, Petro, Josi and Jones ... Gio has dropped out ... after that there are some kids who may enter dance at some point .. but guys like Rielly, Carlson, Karlsen, Letang (less so), Subban etc are nice to have on a team if you can afford luxury but they are not pure defenders first and foremost (and like Rielly did last game quite frankly just lose you games you should have won)

I think there should be a best defensive defenseman award. Who are these writers anyway. Does anyone have a list of who these voters are and where they reside and who they work for in the business.
I would really like to scrutinize that list if it were ever available. What makes them credible. Expierence, who they root for etc. It just seems to accepted without questioning for my liking. Why should i trust them to vote fairly. There is no accountability tothese unknowns.
We don’t even know who they are.

 

[Stephen]

So I focused on Rielly’s PP tendencies on the first power play, and I specifically made note of his tendency to move the puck towards his strong side on the left wing wall. He sort assesses, and dishes to the left. Did so three times before the first whistle. In the past I noticed a lot of Rielly to Marner movement, and an under utilization of the right wing wall where they’ve been putting Matthews. We’ve also seen him force low percentage shots into traffic, so his preference is pass left, shoot and then last pass right. Not sure if it’s a comfort level thing passing across the body or because he doesn’t seem to like walking the line and rotating into the RD position to slide it down. But one of the reasons I think PP is struggling is this lack of good east west movement on the points.

 

[CelticDruid]

So I focused on Rielly’s PP tendencies on the first power play, and I specifically made note of his tendency to move the puck towards his strong side on the left wing wall. He sort assesses, and dishes to the left. Did so three times before the first whistle. In the past I noticed a lot of Rielly to Marner movement, and an under utilization of the right wing wall where they’ve been putting Matthews. We’ve also seen him force low percentage shots into traffic, so his preference is pass left, shoot and then last pass right. Not sure if it’s a comfort level thing passing across the body or because he doesn’t seem to like walking the line and rotating into the RD position to slide it down. But one of the reasons I think PP is struggling is this lack of good east west movement on the points.

Would be nice to see him use his elite skating ability(the one thing that he is good at) and carry the puck into the Jets zone.
He used to do that under Babcock, but not so much now.

 

[Carltons Cup]

If the Leafs start Sandin and Lilly next season and trade Rielly in the off-season, it wouldn't hurt my feelings whatsoever.

 

[zeke]

Rielly having another great game, even with brodie scuffling again.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Rielly having another great game, even with brodie scuffling again.

dont get stressed over guys criticizing Rielly, he is not going anywhere

 

[zeke]

dont get stressed over guys criticizing Rielly, he is not going anywhere

I'm not stressed in the least with Dubas in charge.

 

[baton elevated]

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

lol, thats makes one think a bit for sure

 

[baton elevated]

Hyman, clearly is the superior player when all is taken into account but position and lack of replacement for Mo swings it to his favor slightly. I'm biased because I have been a huge fan of Hyman for a long time. One of the Leafs best trades by a country mile!

 

[zeke]

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

Mo obviously. But we'll keep both anyways.

 

[koyvoo]

I'd say the people around here interested enough to look at the nerd numbers also sound to me from their posting that they watch more games and more closely too.

The people who hate the nerd numbers, from their postings sound to me like they don't ever watch other teams play, and even when watching the leafs don't notice much more than what's happening immediately around the puck. Their takes seem dependent on what the broadcast chooses to show replays about, for the most part.

As I mentioned. From paying legit to free streams, there’s plenty of ways to watch the teams across the league on the ice. When someone dies this, it’s natural that they would, at times dispute the information that is only available looking at numbers, because they often contradict each other.


That’s a far cry from someone who sees the digits and never finds something to dispute in them, never sees anything on them that contradicts heavily with the with the visual side, be never, sees fault in them. Never. Never disputes them.


And that’s how you can easily tell who only uses one source.

Now, it’s one thing to not watch teams across the league play. But as I mentioned, when you notice that leaf “fans”clearly take this approach with the team the “support”, that’s a whole ‘mother issue in itself.

Watch more hockey.

 

[baton elevated]

Mo obviously. But we'll keep both anyways.

If you could trade Hyman for a comparable player you would not do it but if you could get a comparable player to Rielly, you do it in my opinion.

 

[zeke]

As I mentioned. From paying legit to free streams, there’s plenty of ways to watch the teams across the league on the ice. When someone dies this, it’s natural that they would, at times dispute the information that is only available looking at numbers, because they often contradict each other.


That’s a far cry from someone who sees the digits and never finds something to dispute in them, never sees anything on them that contradicts heavily with the with the visual side, be never, sees fault in them. Never. Never disputes them.


And that’s how you can easily tell who only uses one source.

Now, it’s one thing to not watch teams across the league play. But as I mentioned, when you notice that leaf “fans”clearly take this approach with the team the “support”, that’s a whole ‘mother issue in itself.

Watch more hockey.

Watch more hockey.

And Watch more numbers.

 

[koyvoo]

Watch more hockey.

And Watch more numbers.

And find strengths and flaws in both. Not blindly follow one regardless of how much it contrasts with what the other tells you.


Some guys, you see them post the numbers but never say “now clearly this is very flawed”. They never say it.

That’s how you know how watches what.

 

[mapleleaf979]

So I focused on Rielly’s PP tendencies on the first power play, and I specifically made note of his tendency to move the puck towards his strong side on the left wing wall. He sort assesses, and dishes to the left. Did so three times before the first whistle. In the past I noticed a lot of Rielly to Marner movement, and an under utilization of the right wing wall where they’ve been putting Matthews. We’ve also seen him force low percentage shots into traffic, so his preference is pass left, shoot and then last pass right. Not sure if it’s a comfort level thing passing across the body or because he doesn’t seem to like walking the line and rotating into the RD position to slide it down. But one of the reasons I think PP is struggling is this lack of good east west movement on the points.

Reilly has average hockey sense, he cant run a PP1 unit. Reilly has no deception in his game, if he did he win a Norris with 90 points with this roster of forwards and the situation he is in. Reilly gets 40 points doing nothing in the situations he is in, a great skater who lacks in every other area.

 

[mapleleaf979]

If the Leafs start Sandin and Lilly next season and trade Rielly in the off-season, it wouldn't hurt my feelings whatsoever.

Liljegren? What do u see, that i dont see? Liljegren has been terrible at every NHL camp and every NHL game. Let me know what exactly u see. AHL success isnt an answer either....NHL is a different animal.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

lol, thats makes one think a bit for sure

Hyman, clearly is the superior player when all is taken into account but position and lack of replacement for Mo swings it to his favor slightly. I'm biased because I have been a huge fan of Hyman for a long time. One of the Leafs best trades by a country mile!

Hyman or MO, super interesting question, wow!

I'd have to think about this for a while but I gotta admit, my first reaction is keep Hyman. We're not weak on D like we once were and we have Sandin waiting in the wings. Hyman is so unique with what he brings, I think losing him would be a HUGE blow. He'll sign cheaper, that's a part of the equation too. On the other hand, Rielly is kind of unique too. He has skills no other D has on our team, he's taken way too much crap here IMO, had a great game last night, don't really want lose him either.

Super interesting. I'd say start a poll but I hate player A vs player B threads as people start trashing our own players. Hopefully we'll find a way to keep both and be able to do so for a decent price.

The Rielly contract is also really interesting to me. Most people felt they overpaid Matthews and Marner and the ones that didn't argued that they're so young, they'll be in their prime etc. Rielly though is older won't be in his prime for much longer so ... how much can we justify paying a guy like that? Same goes for Hyman. But guys approaching FA status always get paid so what will Dubas do here - how high is he willing to go?

 

[LeafGrief]

Rielly was terrific last night. Made a ton of great rushes and some really nice defensive reads and plays.

He seems pretty lost on the PP right now though. The whole unit is lost, it's not just him, but the back bumper isn't really an effective strategy.

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

Rielly, but both of them are more important than Nylander IMO.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Who would the board rather protect and keep if all things were equal? Hyman or MO? I realize the age difference is heavily weighted to 44's side but as far as importance to the team.

I would keep Hyman and trade MR for a roster player young defensive defenseman a pick and a prospect. The quality you could get back more than likely better than keeping him. You would get a few cheap ELC’s and we have defensive depth in Liljigren and Sandin.
We don’t have a Hyman in the system that even resembles him. He looks phenomenal. Sandin will do MR’s job in no time.

 

[zeke]

Best leafs team in decades and all some leafs can talk about is getting rid of their best players.

It's amazing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

So I focused on Rielly’s PP tendencies on the first power play, and I specifically made note of his tendency to move the puck towards his strong side on the left wing wall. He sort assesses, and dishes to the left. Did so three times before the first whistle. In the past I noticed a lot of Rielly to Marner movement, and an under utilization of the right wing wall where they’ve been putting Matthews. We’ve also seen him force low percentage shots into traffic, so his preference is pass left, shoot and then last pass right. Not sure if it’s a comfort level thing passing across the body or because he doesn’t seem to like walking the line and rotating into the RD position to slide it down. But one of the reasons I think PP is struggling is this lack of good east west movement on the points.

Great post I was just about to say same thing ... yesterday I noted Mitch would be better guy to handle this job as his hands are far superior ... both have brutal shots but Mitch would be better positioned to setup da shooters

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Best leafs team in decades and all some leafs can talk about is getting rid of their best players.

It's amazing.

Right now he is our worst defender, kinda close to Dermy, but I give Dermy da edge because of Reilly's giveaways every game and lack of finish with glorious setups by others ... he is giving puck away in our end all da time and he is not finishing glorious chances ... he needs an old fashioned Keefer talking to right now ... no one is bigger than da team

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

It's a shame that they're not allowing Liljegren to play. His improvement is noticeable. I'd seriously like to see him get a shot on the PP over Reilly any day of the week.