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OT: MLB Thread Part XXI: Title Still TBD

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Go Away Staal said:
Yeah considering my guy was called into the room to discuss potential pieces headed to Pittsburgh from the Yankees, Yes.

Andujar was their target, they knew they weren't getting Torres and they never insisted on him as you keep saying.
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I don't believe that for a minute. Sorry, but I'll take the word of arguably the most respected journalist in the sport in the past god knows how many years over the word of someone on a fan board claiming they have an inside source.

Torres was their initial target. Andujar became target number 2. That's how negotiations work, you ask for the moon and work your way down.
 
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Monument said:
I don't believe that for a minute. Sorry, but I'll take the word of arguably the most respected journalist in the sport in the past god knows how many years over the word of someone on a fan board claiming they have an inside source.

Torres was their initial target. Andujar became target number 2. That's how negotiations work, you ask for the moon and work your way down.
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K.

Feel free to continue to be wrong on this one.

PS: Heyman never said that they insisted on Torres either.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
K.

Feel free to continue to be wrong on this one.

PS: Heyman never said that they insisted on Torres either.
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He never said that? I guess we're gonna play semantics now?

I'll trust the well respected journalist. For all I know, you could be lying. Not saying you are. If you're able to nail some scoops in the future, I'll take what you're saying into consideration and reconsider my stance.

If you can't see it from the other perspective, then I don't know what to tell you, man.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
Yes.

My source is a guy who scouts the international league (and the eastern league) for the Pirates. His input was asked for prior to any deal going down.

I never back tracked, read what I said again.

Also, Cashman is more than willing to move Frazier. He was on the table for Cole.
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Actually Frazier was the piece he was most willing to part with.

This isn't coming from the Yankees end so I don't know how valid that is, but I do know that it was one of him or Adams and not both

The Yankees have a glut of OF's, it's not surprising that they were more willing to part with one. That part is speculation coming from the guy who I got the info from, but I'd say that he was probably right.

Sorry, I took it for backtracking. It sounds like the willingness to move Frazier is conjecture. Your source, whom I have no reason not to believe you on, may have been consulted by the Pirates, but it does not appear he actually knows what is in Cashman's head.

Which leads us right back to being angry that Cashman does not view the world the same way you do. Or has the same horizon that you do. Given what he has accomplished by doing exactly what you are trying to denigrate (i.e. prospect hugging), to me he has earned the benefit of the doubt. And if he believes the prices are too steep, as of now, I will give him the belief that he is right.
 
True Blue said:
Actually Frazier was the piece he was most willing to part with.

This isn't coming from the Yankees end so I don't know how valid that is, but I do know that it was one of him or Adams and not both

The Yankees have a glut of OF's, it's not surprising that they were more willing to part with one. That part is speculation coming from the guy who I got the info from, but I'd say that he was probably right.

Sorry, I took it for backtracking. It sounds like the willingness to move Frazier is conjecture. Your source, whom I have no reason not to believe you on, may have been consulted by the Pirates, but it does not appear he actually knows what is in Cashman's head.

Which leads us right back to being angry that Cashman does not view the world the same way you do. Or has the same horizon that you do. Given what he has accomplished by doing exactly what you are trying to denigrate (i.e. prospect hugging), to me he has earned the benefit of the doubt. And if he believes the prices are too steep, as of now, I will give him the belief that he is right.
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Heyman confirmed that Frazier was on the table. It was the other pieces involved that were not published.

I do happen to believe that the 2nd piece they wanted was Andujar, after Huntington realized they weren't getting Torres, who has been reported by Heyman as the initial ask.
 
I love how Boone sits there and watches Gray give up 7 runs. His leash should be a bracelet at this point.

Cause you know, only the games against Boston matter, as they pick up another game in the loss column.
 
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My frustration with Cashman is that even if he had valued Cole at what he was last year (I'm with those who thinks he wouldn't be the pitcher he is with Houston here, sticky iky and all) he would have still been our 2nd best starter.

It was a glaring need last winter and it is still one now. They've basically assembled a whos who of young talent which is good since it doesn't make it imperative for them to win this year (see: Boston) but there are too many things that can go wrong in the future to bank on what you have here, especially with a team that could conceivably win it all.

The free agent options suck unless Kershaw decides he doesn't want to pitch in LA anymore, and even that is a major risk.
 
Monument said:
I'll say it again and again, letting Girardi go was a grave mistake.
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Boone has the exact same "aw shucks" attitude, except he knows significantly less about pitching.

Didn't the reports say we got rid of Girardi because we wanted a guy who cared about winning regular season games? Did Cashman lie, or did Boone lie in the interviews?
 
Are the Astros some cutting-edge pioneer of materials science that lets their pitchers use and get away with a mysterious sticky substance? No one actually legitimately believes this do they...?
 
Filthy Dangles said:
Are the Astros some cutting-edge pioneer of materials science that lets their pitchers use and get away with a mysterious sticky substance? No one actually legitimately believes this do they...?
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The increases guys are seeing in their spin rate when they go to Houston are unprecedented. They're doing something cutting-edge, whether it's coaching or cheating.
 
Now it's 7-5. If we managed to get f***ing anything with the bases loaded, we could have tied this game.
 
Machinehead said:
I thought Morton's had changed as well. I guess not.

Still, something is going on with Cole.
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Morton was a change in his arm slot. It increased his velocity like crazy. He used to be a 2 seam guy with sink. They changed his arm angle, told him to throw 4 seamers and he became a guy who throws 97 regularly and strikes guys out at a crazy rate.

This was after he went to Pittsburgh and worked with them and they turned him into quite a solid guy.

Those two teams know how to turn pitchers with talent who have sucked into good starters. They're both doing something right.
 
Go Away Staal said:
My frustration with Cashman is that even if he had valued Cole at what he was last year (I'm with those who thinks he wouldn't be the pitcher he is with Houston here, sticky iky and all) he would have still been our 2nd best starter.

It was a glaring need last winter and it is still one now. They've basically assembled a whos who of young talent which is good since it doesn't make it imperative for them to win this year (see: Boston) but there are too many things that can go wrong in the future to bank on what you have here, especially with a team that could conceivably win it all.

The free agent options suck unless Kershaw decides he doesn't want to pitch in LA anymore, and even that is a major risk.
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I don't think Cashman was wrong in not dealing those assets for Cole. I think we all know Houston is doing some "home cooking" (if you will) to get the results they're getting out of Cole and Morton and possibly even Verlander who looked like he was done and is now throwing 97-100 again his mid-late 30's after throwing so hard for so many innings.

Cashman has said repeatedly that he doesn't want to sacrifice championships for a championship. Giving up someone like Torres or Andujar for Cole would be doing that. Cole isn't the answer. I trust Cashman on this. Aside from one really good year, Cole's numbers are no different from Sonny Gray's. PNC is a hitter's park in the NL Central. Cole is prone to giving up homers. The stuff might not translate at Yankee stadium and that's a HUGE RISK to be giving up a Torres or Andujar for. It seems that Cashman is of the mentality that if he's giving up those pieces, he's gotta be getting a Jose Fernandez (RIP) type pitcher, a dominant, young cost-controlled starter with a ton of term who isn't even close to his arbitration years. Cole has never been that type of pitcher in his career. He's had one special year before this and otherwise the rest of his career doesn't separate him from anyone.

Patrick Corbin said he wants to come to the Yankees. I'll take him and Kershaw and Sonny Gray can take a one-way ticket to Kansas City or some national league team that's irrelevant, because that's where he'll pitch well again. Sheffield will get called up and has upper end of the rotation potential. Some scouts like Abreu more than they like him.

Just let time run it's course and trust Cashman. Yes, we want to win this year, but as someone who was old enough to go through the hurt of 1995, watching the next 8 years after was one of the greatest things in my life. They have the ability to do that again.
 
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All Might said:
Nah. Hiring an ESPN analyst as his replacement was.
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Well I agree with that, but Girardi was a great manager. He had enough of a presence of mind to accept analytics and go by the book when necessary, but go by his gut when the numbers didn't always give you the best answer.

He was also a great disciplinarian. Look at Sanchez. The guy has been a loaf with a terrible attitude his entire career. Girardi straightens him out and he has an amazing first two seasons. They get rid of Girardi because he didn't want to coddle Sanchez (and rightfully so) and the guy totally slacks off falling into his norm of indifference and his numbers suffer mightily.

If I'm Yankee management, I suck up my pride and go beg Girardi to come back and offer him a ridiculous deal.
 
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