Even if he isn't reliable, hes still one of the "better" RH arms available.
They weren't going to get a Chapman/Miller return, that much we knew, but they should have been able to do better than what they did. That return was putrid.
OT: MLB Thread Part XX: Title incoming.
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Even if he isn't reliable, hes still one of the "better" RH arms available.
They weren't going to get a Chapman/Miller return, that much we knew, but they should have been able to do better than what they did. That return was putrid.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Familia is a wife beater, has injury concerns, is a one inning guy, is a rental......what did people think he'd fetch?
And that one dude is a top20 prospect in the Mets barren system
And that one dude is a top20 prospect in the Mets barren system
Chapman had domestic abuse problems. Did not stop the Yanks from trading for him. Or the Cubs trading Torres for Chapman.Familia is a wife beater, has injury concerns, is a one inning guy, is a rental......what did people think he'd fetch?
And that one dude is a top20 prospect in the Mets barren system
The joke of it all is the Mets COULDVE and SHOULDVE gotten more for Familia. They botched it. They traded him before Britton was dealt and reports are they didnt circle back to interested teams to allow them to bump up their offers.
So badly run.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Royals didn't retain any salary for Herrera (he makes more than JM) and they seemingly didn't wait for the best deal either. Why would they trade one of the most desirable arms way before the deadline and not get any blue chippers back?
People just want to pile on the Mets. The Chapman deal is the outlier not the standard.
What? Lol?
The Royals did well. But the scenario is differernt. The Mets waited this long. Why not wait a little longer until after Britton is dealt to see what teams would pay after losing out on him. Its just poor management. It is. Not trying to pile on the Mets, its the reality of it.
SA16
Sixstring
Here are the RP trades from last year
Brandon Kintzler to Nats for a minor league reliever
Tony Watson to LAD for two low level prospects
David Hernandez to ARI for a nothing prospect
Joe Smith to CLE for two low level prospects
Jeremy Jeffress to MIL for a 25 year old minor league reliever
Addisson Reed to BOS for low level prospects
Justin Wilson to Cubs for a good prospect (Candelario) but Alex Avila was also a big part of that trade
AJ Ramos to Mets for low level prospects
Steve Cishek to Mariners for Eraso Ramireaz (below average MLB pitcher)
Pat Neshek to Rockies for 3 low level prospects
David Phelps to Mariners for a bunch of prospects none of which are highly regarded
Sean Doolitte/Ryan Madson to WAS for Treinen and prospects (this is a straight up baseball trade)
Not one of these guys got anything of significant value. If you think Familia should have got significantly more you don't understand the rental RP market. What the Mets got is comparable to every other RP trade over the last year for guys in similar situations.
Brandon Kintzler to Nats for a minor league reliever
Tony Watson to LAD for two low level prospects
David Hernandez to ARI for a nothing prospect
Joe Smith to CLE for two low level prospects
Jeremy Jeffress to MIL for a 25 year old minor league reliever
Addisson Reed to BOS for low level prospects
Justin Wilson to Cubs for a good prospect (Candelario) but Alex Avila was also a big part of that trade
AJ Ramos to Mets for low level prospects
Steve Cishek to Mariners for Eraso Ramireaz (below average MLB pitcher)
Pat Neshek to Rockies for 3 low level prospects
David Phelps to Mariners for a bunch of prospects none of which are highly regarded
Sean Doolitte/Ryan Madson to WAS for Treinen and prospects (this is a straight up baseball trade)
Not one of these guys got anything of significant value. If you think Familia should have got significantly more you don't understand the rental RP market. What the Mets got is comparable to every other RP trade over the last year for guys in similar situations.
Hunter Gathers
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I guess every single person out there (including the GMs wondering why the Mets didn't ask them to match or beat the offer) all just "don't understand the rental RP market".
Hunter Gathers
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Bob Richards
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It is not even a matter of the return.
It is the logic of it all. Why deal him before Britton? RP Market is in higher demand this year than last because the SP market is worse than it was last year. There is more of a premium being placed on RPs. Every contender is in on Britton. Not every team will get him. Just one. Familia isnt Chapman but he has been a closer who has pitched in the playoffs and world series. Dont compare him to all of those other relievers traded last year. Hand and Cimber, but mostly Hand, landed Mejia. Obviously there are years of team control involved and Familia is a rental, but there is clearly a market for the RPs. Why not just wait a few more days to see what happens with Britton. Other interested GMs didnt understand why the Mets didnt circle back to them to at least see if they would increase their offer. The management, or lacktherof, is a mess.
SA16
Sixstring
Every team always thinks they have the best offer and that their prospects are best (see Rangers drafting strategy over the year). I don't see what waiting a week would do other than risk him potentially getting hurt. Also I don't think his playoff experience/WS experience would be seen as a plus since his playoff history has been blowing big games.
Also Britton has been bad for two years now. If he gets significantly more than anyone else it's just based on his past reputation. His k-rate is way down, he's extremely wild, and he's generating less ground balls than he ever has.
Chapman is the only rental reliever the past few years that was traded for a top prospect. Miller/Hand got a land but they were both signed at good value long term.
But I guess the Mets should have somehow made an deal for a good prospect despite it happening one time the last three years which happened to be in a deal for arguably the best reliever in baseball?
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Let me just ask you this....worry of a potential* injury aside....do you not think they could have made this same deal in 5 days?
They absolutely could have. Could have waited and just let the market develop a little more. Britton, regardless of his results the last two years, is still high in demand. He is the main target. The Astros, Cubs, Braves, and the Yankees, among other contenders are all talking to the Orioles about him. Those are all dance partners that shift their focus after only one comes away with Britton.
SA16
Sixstring
I think they could have made the deal in five days and I think they would have got basically an identical return in five days.
What did you actually expect them to get for him? I don't believe any of the rentals I listed above from 2017 (or 2016) got a top 100 prospect outside of Chapman. As I said before even JD Martinez got very little in return last year as a rental and he's a far more valuable player than any RP.
I think with these guys you should basically always target RP prospects and international bonus dollars in return. You're never getting an elite position player prospect for them. At least you can get a random older RP with a decent likelihood of producing in a bullpen and the bonus dollars is always helpful since it's like trading for mid round draft picks.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Multiple GMs all asked the same question. It sounds like there were a number of GMs all willing to offer more and the Mets simply didn't bother.
I guess none of those GMs "understand the rental RP market", though.
- Oct 23, 2014
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Funny how none of the trusted insiders reported something similar. Am I to believe a couple obscure Mets beat guys have MLB GMs and execs on speed dial and actually know anything about who wanted Familia and what his value might have been. I call BS.
I saw an alert saying the same thing but when I looked I couldn't find any article with quotes from actual GMs. Tweets from baseball writers isn't much a source. Do they know that a specific GM was offering a better deal? I don't really take what these guys say too seriously. Sure maybe the Mets could have done better but it's not like they were getting a top prospect for Fam with how bad he's been.
JimmyG89
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This is the one people will argue, but Blake Treinen was pure trash for Washington and Oakland took a chance on a guy with elite stuff and that they could address his control issues. It appears they have done that.
Rental relievers are not high value, in spite of how teams are currently using relief pitching.
To me this emphasizes one thing: The trade(s) the Cashman pulled off for Chapman were highway robbery. Yes, Chapman is essentially a unicorn on the trade market. Lefty that throw 104. You don't get that EVER. Even someone like Billy Wagner peaked around 100, and by the time he was rental/trade candidate, he was around 98. Torres (#1 Cubs prospect), McKinney (#5 prospect) and another prospect in the top 30 for a RENTAL RELIEVER. You don't get that. On top of that, he got Adam Warren back. He gave up next to nothing for him.
Look at what Brad Hand (2 1/2 years left) returned, and he was packaged with another reliever who is a rookie (5 years on control). Mejia is a top tier prospect, but that was all they got. Nothing else, and it has been viewed as a relatively fair trade.
This is somewhat of the return I expected. A hole in the organization (3b) and a guy who is close to the majors as a reliever (really good AAA numbers in the PCL).
SA16
Sixstring
I wouldn't see Treinen was bad for the Nats in 2017 more than he happened to run a .381 BABIP. His BB% with OAK is actually worse than it was with the Nats in 2017 and he's getting less grounders. However his strikeouts have gone through the roof this year.
Machinehead
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