Toggle sidebar

OT: MLB Thread Part XX: Title incoming.

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
Status
Not open for further replies.
All Might said:
Horrible trade.

I would never advocate trading that much for any reliever in history of the game. Just why.
Click to expand...

They are in win now mode. They are getting 8 controllable years for a top prospect. Could they have packaged a whole bunch of prospects? Sure, but it was clear the Padres wanted a top prospect, not a whole bunch of players. Also, they didn't need to trade Hand. He has another 2 years beyond this one.

Chapman had 3 months left on his deal. This is similar to them getting Miller. It's why the Yankees got Frazier and Sheffield. Having an elite level bullpen arm under a reasonable deal for multiple seasons when you are trying to win a WS is worth it to them.

And, as far as prospect status goes, Mejia was a higher level prospect than Andujar. For all things considered, Mejia also plays a premium position that carries more weight than a 2nd/3rd baseman.
 
Mejia refused to cooperate in transitioning to the OF where the Tribe really need some help. He insists he's a catcher but he's not anywhere ready to be behind the plate in the majors. Indians have a Window that he wasn't going to fit. Frankie Lindor is gone in 3 years. Almost no chance they re-sign him.
 
Filthy Dangles said:
Mejia refused to cooperate in transitioning to the OF where the Tribe really need some help. He insists he's a catcher but he's not anywhere ready to be behind the plate in the majors. Indians have a Window that he wasn't going to fit. Frankie Lindor is gone in 3 years. Almost no chance they re-sign him.
Click to expand...

He played lot of outfield this year at AAA.
 
darko said:
He played lot of outfield this year at AAA.
Click to expand...

Quotes from Tito Francona

I understand that. We’re trying to tell him, ‘Hey, we think you’re a good catcher, but if you can do this you might get to the big leagues quicker. Until a kid is sold on it. ... I’m not sure (if it’s a good idea to push him).

We wanted to reinforce that this is by no means an indictment on his catching. If anything, we were really pleased with his progression. We just told him ‘Look, we have Perez and Gomes. Do the math.’ He’s such an advanced hitter that if he’s able to play another position, and then there’s an injury or something, he could find himself not only in the big leagues or playing.

I don’t know how excited he was to play third base. If you want to be a full-time catcher, we’ll back you 100 percent, but when he laid it out for him there, he was like ‘No, I need to do this.
Click to expand...

He could probably be contributing with the team right now but he didn't want to.
 
Last edited:
Im not against trading Andujar period. I am however against trading him for what would be the 4th best reliever on our team and pitch maybe a few batters to 1 inning in the playoffs. A top of the rotation arm? Even a signed Manny Machado with an extension to keep him from FA. absolutely
 
  • Like
Reactions: RGY
Here's the top 10 relievers in the league this year by ERA+ and their history:

1. Blake Treinen - failed starter with the Nats organization
2. Collin McHugh - formerly solid starter for a few years but the Astros staff is too deep
3. Lou Trivino - failed starter in the A's organization who was moved to the pen in the minors
4. Chapman - elite prospect from Cuba who never wanted to start (despite the Reds wanting him to)
5. Jeremy Jeffress - first round pick as a starter who didn't get a full time MLB role until age 28 as a RP
6. Kyle Barraclough - good RP for years who had major control issues. Was not a top prospect
7. Adam Ottavino - failed starter in the Cardinals organization who was a decent RP for years
8. Jared Hughes - failed starter in the Pirates organization who fluked his way to a good first half he's not that good
9. Sean Doolittle - Been a great RP for years I think he came out of nowhere before then but don't remember entirely
10. Brandon Morrow - former good SP who moved to the pen because he was always injured

So I don't really see why you'd ever need to trade a top prospect for these guys. The pretty much all come from nowhere to be great. Most teams probably have several guys in their organization who can provide something similar. To get an elite reliever you don't need a top prospect. You just have to give guys a chance.

Look at the Yankees great bullpen now - it consists as one guy who was an elite RP prospect (Chapman), a top pitching prospect who was a bust as a starter because he couldn't throw strikes and moved to the pen and became great (Betances), a random guy who was in the Braves minor league pen for years and couldn't strike anyone out until 2014 (Shreve), a pretty good SP prospect who was an 11th round pick (Green), a 17th round draft pick as a RP (Robertson), and a decent P prospect (Holder). It's not like it was a bunch of top 100 prospects. It's mostly random guys who happened to break out and Chapman.

Even Brad Hand, who this is about, was a terrible starter and then got released.
 
Last edited:
That's all well and good, but what does a team do now when they think they're going to contend for a World Series? The Indians are in no position to trot out a bunch of has-been and never-was-type pitchers in the hope that something works out, or to just throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what sticks. I think the odds have them at 5th to win the WS, and they know that to do that they had to address their f***ing awful bullpen. So, yeah, they probably had to overpay, but if Hand (and Cimber, who is also pretty good) help them win a WS this year, I'd say the ends justify the means.

Ideally you wouldn't find yourself in a position where you need to make such a significant move to address the pen, but that's where Cleveland was. They did what they felt they had to do, and while the trade may look stupid in a few years, it could also pay off handsomely. I don't fault them.
 
Well for one I'd advise not trading a ton to get a left handed reliever with a huge platoon split when almost every good hitter on the good AL teams is right handed.

Since Hand became a good pitcher (2016) he has a .223 wOBA allowed vs lefties with a 36.9 k% compared to a .286 vs righties with a 30.3%. He's still good vs righties but he's not the same guy at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cimber is the more important piece for them.
 
Last edited:
SA16 said:
Well for one I'd advise not trading a ton to get a left handed reliever with a huge platoon split when almost every good hitter on the good AL teams is right handed.

Since Hand became a good pitcher (2016) he has a .223 wOBA allowed vs lefties with a 36.9 k% compared to a .286 vs righties with a 30.3%. He's still good vs righties but he's not the same guy at all.
Click to expand...
This is a different discussion. You're now talking about if Hand is the right acquisition or even that good.

The post I responded to was about the wisdom of trading a top prospect for bullpen help, and why a team would need to do that.

Don't move the goal posts on me.
 
nyr2k2 said:
This is a different discussion. You're now talking about if Hand is the right acquisition or even that good.

The post I responded to was about the wisdom of trading a top prospect for bullpen help, and why a team would need to do that.

Don't move the goal posts on me.
Click to expand...

Ok then I'll straighten them out.

1. I would not trade anything of significant value for a reliever outside of the real elite ones (Chapman/Kimbrel and the like).

2. If I was trading for a reliever and I was an AL team I certainly wouldn't be going for a left handed one given the construction of the AL playoff teams.
 
SA16 said:
Ok then I'll straighten them out.

1. I would not trade anything of significant value for a reliever outside of the real elite ones (Chapman/Kimbrel and the like).

2. If I was trading for a reliever and I was an AL team I certainly wouldn't be going for a left handed one given the construction of the AL playoff teams.
Click to expand...
Okay, 1 I don't necessarily agree with but understand, and 2 is certainly logical.
 
As far as I can tell among relievers with at least 50 IP vs righties since 2016 Hand's .286 wOBA ranks 89th. The 5 below and 5 above him are:
Jonathan HolderJosh FieldsGeorge KontosJim JohnsonBrett CecilBrad HandJeremy JeffressDoug Fister (oops not a RP)Justin WilsonJoe BlantonNick Vincent
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
He's good against righties but not as good as his overall numbers look because 33% of his batters faced have been lefties who he entirely dominates.

So if they wouldn't be happy trading for those guys then I don't know why they would want Hand that bad (other than of course that he's controllable but as said relievers come out of nowhere all the time - Hand included).
 
@SA16 two questions:

1. I never picked it up, but are you a Mets or Yankees fan?
2. Have you thought more about what a good deGrom trade would look like since I last asked? I’ve been trying to get caught up with the latest news as the trade deadline approaches.
 
Mac n Gs said:
@SA16 two questions:

1. I never picked it up, but are you a Mets or Yankees fan?
2. Have you thought more about what a good deGrom trade would look like since I last asked? I’ve been trying to get caught up with the latest news as the trade deadline approaches.
Click to expand...

1. Mets
2. 1 absolute top level hitting prospect and then I don’t care what else really. Not a package of 4-5 good/decent prospects. Sale and Quintana both got top 5 prospects in the entire MLB for them. Moncada was ranked 1 or 2. Jimenez is 3 now I think and around there then.
 
SA16 said:
1. Mets
2. 1 absolute top level hitting prospect and then I don’t care what else really. Not a package of 4-5 good/decent prospects. Sale and Quintana both got top 5 prospects in the entire MLB for them. Moncada was ranked 1 or 2. Jimenez is 3 now I think and around there then.
Click to expand...
Not that it swings the pendulum a ton, but Sale and Quintana were 26,27 years old when the trades were made deGrom is 30. I get he has two more years of control. But is there a concern for a pitcher who has had to shoulder much of the burden to carry a team logging a lot of innings imo. I dont know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom