I'm not sure how much money Wilpon is willing to spend this off season. Plus the past few ventures in to free agency for a big bat have not been good for the Mets.
OT: MLB Discussion Thread, Part II: Yanks pay Ellsbury
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I'm not sure how much money Wilpon is willing to spend this off season. Plus the past few ventures in to free agency for a big bat have not been good for the Mets.
Zil
Shrug
- Feb 9, 2006
- 5,559
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That's because Omar Minaya is an idiot and targeted the wrong guys. You can't be afraid of spending money to win. You just have to hope Alderson spends it wisely.
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Wrong again.
"Some international prospects come to the United States and are, at least initially, overwhelmed. Not so for Herrera, who made his U.S. debut in 2012 and was among the Gulf Coast League leaders in a host of offensive categories. While he's not the biggest guy in the world, he's shown he can really hit and projects to be an above-average hitter in the future, with more power than you'd expect from a guy his size. A well-above-average runner, the Colombian infielder should be able steal bases consistently, and that speed should also help him with his range as he continues to get used to playing second base, having shifted from playing third in the Dominican Summer League in 2011 after signing."
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/ml...x.jsp?c_id=pit
"Some international prospects come to the United States and are, at least initially, overwhelmed. Not so for Herrera, who made his U.S. debut in 2012 and was among the Gulf Coast League leaders in a host of offensive categories. While he's not the biggest guy in the world, he's shown he can really hit and projects to be an above-average hitter in the future, with more power than you'd expect from a guy his size. A well-above-average runner, the Colombian infielder should be able steal bases consistently, and that speed should also help him with his range as he continues to get used to playing second base, having shifted from playing third in the Dominican Summer League in 2011 after signing."
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/ml...x.jsp?c_id=pit
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
Am I wrong?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=herrer000dil
21 HR in nearly 1000 PA. Yeah.
Alex Escobar and Fernando Martinez were suppose to develop that pop, too.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=herrer000dil
21 HR in nearly 1000 PA. Yeah.
Alex Escobar and Fernando Martinez were suppose to develop that pop, too.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
He's not a finished product. And pop is not the sole tool of every prospect. If he developes into a gap hitter with speed and athleticism who can steal bases and play sound defense, how is that a bad thing. The kid is 19 and played in the Future Stars game. If you chose to evaluate a prospect based on his stats then you're missing the bigger picture.
Ochoa and FMart were OF who never developed pop. Herrera is a middle infielder.
You can look for things to complain about with this move, but other posters have spelled out why this was/is a good move. You simply are choosing not to see it.
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1. It is silly to get hyped up about the majority of 19 year olds, this one included.
2. He's a 19 year old in the sally, which is kind of the equivalent of JT Miller in the AHL last year (no, the comparison isn't perfect). No one sane and rational was *****ing because JT miller didn't put up. PPG in the AHL as a 19 year old. You have to take age into a account.
Another article regarding Herrera. This one stating that he could be a 15-20 HR guy in majors if he breaks and could have above average power for 2b.
Also traditionally 2b aren't supposed to be power hitters. They usually are gap hitters with a good OBP.
http://metsminors.net/prospect-spotlight-dilson-herrera-gives-mets-depth-at-second-base/
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
The SALLY is the second hardest minor league to hit home runs in, behind the Florida State League. 11 home runs from a 19 year-old second baseman is actually really impressive.
Herrera could sit in the 15-20 range of home runs as a second baseman in the Majors, which would be above average at that position, and that doesn't require him to develop pop...that is if his pop carries over against better pitching. Regardless of that, he's one of the youngest players in the league as it is so it's not like he's putting those numbers up as some 21 year-old on their third trip through A-ball.
His 7 home runs in the Gulf Coast League last year was 2nd in the league, 1 behind a guy two years older on the Yankees and 2 ahead of anyone else. That is a league where only 10 players hit more than 3 home runs and only 3 hit more than 4.
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It's Marlon Byrd and John friggin' Buck. Relax lol. They are 35 and 33 years old respectively.
Also a note: I don't know how much other folks here follow baseball prospects. I will admit that baseball is actually my favorite sport (baseball is 1a, hockey is 1b, and I don't follow anything else), and I keep a much closer eye on baseball prospects than I do on hockey. That doesn't doesn't mean I know anything - I don't see much minor league ball outside of brooklyn, which is not exactly a bastion of blue chippers most years - just that I am more fluent in how the system works in baseball. As such, I don't say much anymore about hockey prospects, as I only see the guys in he AHL (thanks hockeyhockeystreams), and only keep tabs on Ranger prospects. The point is that if you're big into hockey prospecting, but don't pay too much attention to baseball, be careful. The baseball development system is even more complex than it is in hockey (there are literally differant systems for talent aquistion based on player origin, and you're dealing with guys coming into pro ball at anywhere between age 16 and 22, and of course therw a million differant leagues and levels of the minors), and you have to really keep on top of your stuff to have any idea what is going on in the world of hockey prospects. You know how annoying it is when another team's fan comes in to our prospect thread and questions a guy that they never follow based on stats? or when casual hockey fans try and extrapolate NHL performance based soley off minor league production? Don't be that guy.
Apologies if that was patronizing - I expect that it was - but context is important.
Apologies if that was patronizing - I expect that it was - but context is important.
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
If you want to say you're ok with trading Byrd and Buck for a crapshoot prospect and hope to get lucky, I can at least see that.
But to argue that this guy is actually a good prospect, I really find it hard to believe.
Yeah I've read the articles. Might have 15-20 HR pop etc etc. Stuff like that is said about almost any prospect. He isn't someone to get excited about. Long shot prospect.
Or maybe I'm wrong and this guy is another Jeff Kent. We'll see I guess.
But to argue that this guy is actually a good prospect, I really find it hard to believe.
Yeah I've read the articles. Might have 15-20 HR pop etc etc. Stuff like that is said about almost any prospect. He isn't someone to get excited about. Long shot prospect.
Or maybe I'm wrong and this guy is another Jeff Kent. We'll see I guess.
Well yeah, that is the whole point; he doesn't have to be a sure thing, he just has to provide more value beyond this year than either Byrd or Buck would, which he does because he we at least be property of the NYMets in the middle of October, neither of those guys would have been. If I offered you a lottery ticket for a mediocre sandwich that you didn't want any more of, wouldn't you take it?
Depends what you mean by good prospect. He was highly regarded enough to make it into the top 10 of one of the 3 or 4 strongest systems in baseball. That does not mean that he will amount to anything, most 19 year olds don't, but he has a chance to if it all works out. That is all you want out of a-ball guys, a chance. None of them are sure things, you just want as many lottery tickets in your hand as possible.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
He doesn't have to be Jeff Kent for this to be a good trade. We got massive surplus value from Byrd and now he gets to contribute to a playoff team, and Buck is subpar. Herrera is young for his league and is doing very well. This is a classic both sides win trade with no way this can blow up in Sandy's face.
Depends what's on the sandwich and if it's a Powerball ticket.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
Also, great to see Niese have 3 fantastic starts since coming back. People were sleeping on him after a bad season, but now that he's (hopefully) healed up he's showing that he absolutely is a part of this rotation moving forward.
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
Usually nothing as serious as what he had to deal with this year, though. If he can pitch the 190 innings he did last year consistently, he's a fantastic #3 for a contending Mets team.
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
You're already contradicting yourself. You said the Mets gave Byrd and Buck away. Now you don't like the quality of prospect they got back. A 19 year old kid with purported good athleticism who participated in the Future Stars game. What did you think you were going to get back?
Now you're just making things up. Lots of posters have told what there is to like about this guy. Your response was he has no pop — which was also rebuked. Now he "isn't someone to get excited about". Based on what exactly?
So unless he becomes a Hall of Famer, its a bad trade?
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Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
I'm just trying to figure out why you think the Mets should get a Jeff Kent for two mid-30s journeymen who are approaching free agency and weren't going to be re-signed? You traded Marlon Byrd, not Matt Harvey.
Herrera was a top 10-12 prospect in the 3rd or 4th best system in baseball, and a riser at that and you get our best relief prospect in Vic Black who is Major League ready today (who has averaged 12.5 K/9 in the past two minor league seasons) and has hit triple-digits on the minor league radar guns.
The Mets got an absurd return for a couple of short-term rentals that weren't in the organization 12 months ago and wouldn't be in 2 months, and I'm quite obviously not a Mets fan.
I do not understand your negativity to this trade at all. This is amazing asset management by the Mets.
The kent thing was because of me. I was just musing that we also traded David Cone away on the same date for Jeff Kent, and that Herrera has put up better numbers at a much younger age than Kent. I don't quite remember if Kent was a big name prospect at the time but he was a rookie for toronto at the time of the trade. Anyway they are different type of players. The whole point was that low A power numbers dont mean all that much. My bad.
Has the Vic Black been confirmed yet?
I agree that this was awesome asset management.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Yes. But he needs to clear waivers. If he's claimed the Pirates can pull him back and then send him to the Mets when the season is over.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Black probably was already subject to waivers and re-called, otherwise he would have been included outright. The deal will be made official early in the off-season.
It'll be interesting to see what the Pirates do with Black as he's still Pirates property until the deal is official. He was a shoe-in to be a September call-up, but now maybe he'll be left in Indianapolis to help with their playoff run. Either way he'll be in the Mets bullpen on Opening Day next year, which neither Byrd nor Buck would have been.
It'll be interesting to see what the Pirates do with Black as he's still Pirates property until the deal is official. He was a shoe-in to be a September call-up, but now maybe he'll be left in Indianapolis to help with their playoff run. Either way he'll be in the Mets bullpen on Opening Day next year, which neither Byrd nor Buck would have been.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
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Last season 12 2nd baggers had 15 home runs or more. He's a threat on the base paths too. Long way to go but 15-15 type 2B is quite a handy player. If Black turns into a solid reliever that's quite a haul for 2 guys who weren't in long term plans and were going to leave via free agency after this season.
No one here is saying that Herrera is going to be a good player. He's 19 after all and has long ways to go. However he is a prospect with a good upside.
No one here is saying that Herrera is going to be a good player. He's 19 after all and has long ways to go. However he is a prospect with a good upside.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
hard to be unhappy with this deal in any way
lets be honest, buck was gone anyway. he had an epic start to his met career but d'rno is here now.
byrd played out of his mind for us but again, not in our future plans and we werent winning this year anyway.
we get a young talented if prospect that addresses an organizational need. and the kid can hit too boot.
and in black we get another guy who throws hard.
i call this a great sandy deal.
lets be honest, buck was gone anyway. he had an epic start to his met career but d'rno is here now.
byrd played out of his mind for us but again, not in our future plans and we werent winning this year anyway.
we get a young talented if prospect that addresses an organizational need. and the kid can hit too boot.
and in black we get another guy who throws hard.
i call this a great sandy deal.
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