Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Confucius]

I'm curious, did Keefe ever do anything to switch it up?

Just seems like a stuck record.

If there is any truth to the comments about some players picking their linemates ... I don't think that'll fly with Berube.

I think players picking their linemates would only be half the story. I have never seen the players call more huddles before key faceoffs. I’d bet they called their own strategy as well.

 

[francis246]

I agree.

Assuming JT and MM stick around, how can anyone expect the new upcoming season will be any different than the past bunch of years?

But when next season is over and Leafs free up $22M + whatever other bad contracts that might be over by then, the team might have $30M(?) freed up to get players.

You can tell the team is itching to get a solid goalie at some point, since all the goalie signings lately are short term, cheap, or a back up vet you know isnt a #1 or long term hold.

The only way I expect this season to be better is if the leafs find a way to win the division. Which is not out of the realm of possibility. If they can win the division and get a match up from the metro I like their chances. Otherwise there isn’t any evidence to suggest things will be any different if they finish in the 2 or 3 hole.

I do think the team is better than last year, so I don’t think it’s a sunk season but they gotta win the division in my opinion.

 

[Confucius]

I wish they would. Trying to win with a common sense approach instead of running back the same losing formula year after year would be a refreshing change indeed!

We’ve always dumped players in the past that went on to win somewhere else, so why change now?

 

[ULF_55]

So I know personally, that in the 2023 playoffs. The players wanted a line up change in the Florida series. ROR and Marner wanted to play together, I know that for a fact. If you want to know how I know shoot me a DM. But Keefe was unwilling to change shit up. They also wanted a change on the PP. this idea that Marner and Matthews are married to each other on the ice really isn’t true. I think coming out of ELC they wanted that opportunity to play together, but it’s not like they are completely unwilling to play on separate lines.

So how can you not want to see these same assets deployed differently if the x-coach was unwilling to alter a losing line-up?

 

[francis246]

So how can you not want to see these same assets deployed differently if the x-coach was unwilling to alter a losing line-up?

I do want to see them deployed differently. I personally like Marner with JT. I think JT plays significantly better with Marner. I would keep all three of them separated. That was my biggest thing with Keefe, is he would try something. It would work and he would revert back to what was comfortable for HIM as a coach because he was scared to lose.

2023 / JT - ROR - Marner was really a nasty line tbh. ROR got injured unfortunately but Keefe refused to even try to go back to that line in the playoffs. That decision ultimately costs us ROR extending and probably cost us the series against Florida.

I think Berube is going to balance the lines well.

 

[Hellcat]

.. poster @Hellcat said that 2nd place is a first place loser. Indicating a finals appearance means as much as no playoff appearance at all.

Nearly 60 years since a finals appearance ...but it wouldn't matter if the Leafs didn't win the cup. It would be like finishing 32nd.

Finally you've learned somethign about competitive sports ...fiiiiiinnnnaaaalllly.....

 

[Confucius]

Finally you've learned somethign about competitive sports ...fiiiiiinnnnaaaalllly.....

Obviously he never heard the expression “if you ain’t the lead dog the view is the same.”

 

[Hellcat]

The only way I expect this season to be better is if the leafs find a way to win the division. Which is not out of the realm of possibility. If they can win the division and get a match up from the metro I like their chances. Otherwise there isn’t any evidence to suggest things will be any different if they finish in the 2 or 3 hole.

I do think the team is better than last year, so I don’t think it’s a sunk season but they gotta win the division in my opinion.

It's going to be a dog fight if the Leafs cant find a way to improve their team defence.

Tampa is on the down curve but Kucherov, Vas and Hedman are the 3 headed monster.
Boston was supposed to take a step back last year but kicked our ass on the regular, Pasta, Swayman, Marchand, McAvoy.. c'mon they are as good or better than us
Ottawa - maybe they pull their heads out of their asses and play real hockey, Green likes a rough game, they should improve.
Buffalo there ahs to be a year where their dumpster fever breaks.
Detroit I think they made some smart decisions, they will be better this year.
Montreal is pure dogshit.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't agree with all of what you are saying. Best scenario is to trade him, 2nd best is to let him walk as UFA the worst of it all is to re-sign him with full nmc/ntc and at a ridiculous cap hit. we have 8 years of evidence that marner cannot drive his own line he needs matthews or prime tavares to succeed. Nylander drove his own line with freakin' kerfoot as his center and put up points btw just for some historical context.

in grand scheme of things, we have already committed to matthews and nylander; matthews' prime is now i.e. the duration of the 4 years he signed for. We have to maximize those 4 years for a chance at the cup. Next year is a dead year because of tavares/marner 22M cap hits. Next off season we will get 22M in cap space to completely change the roster to really go for it in the reamining Matthews' 3 years.

After that, quite frankly, it is probably rebuild time again anyway if we still dont have the cup.

I absolutely hate the idea of doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting different results. It hasn't worked, I don't get why people expect it to work with marner re-signed. It will not work. Marner isn't Kuznetsov that changed cap's outlook completely with ovi changing the way he played to win the cup.

Marner's play will never transition well into the playoffs unless he is carried by a bonafide center. he just isn't good enough IMO

Don't get me wrong... I HATE the idea of signing him too...

But cap space is only as good as what you can actually do with it.

You look at the list of impending UFAs for next year, adn it's not exactly an overwhelming list.

Shesterkin is he really gonna leave New York?

Rantanen would he really leave Colorado? and if he would, would it not put us in a similar position as Marner today with too many high $ forwards?

Draisaitl would be great, but I suspect that if he doesn't stay in Edmonton, he's not staying in Canada.

Ekblad I cannot imagine is leaving Florida.

So who does that leave you? Boeser? Provorov? Ehlers? Mangiapane? Konecny? Theodore? Verhaege? It's not an overly spectacular group, and that's before the list gets paired down by resignings. It's also not really featuring that 1 stud defenceman that we've been after for a while.

Sure, you can certainly argue that this wteam would be a lot better swapping Marner for Rantanen, or Marner + Jarnkrok for Boeser & Konecny... but that's a heck of a risk to be taking on July 1.

 

[francis246]

It's going to be a dog fight if the Leafs cant find a way to improve their team defence.

Tampa is on the down curve but Kucherov, Vas and Hedman are the 3 headed monster.
Boston was supposed to take a step back last year but kicked our ass on the regular, Pasta, Swayman, Marchand, McAvoy.. c'mon they are as good or better than us
Ottawa - maybe they pull their heads out of their asses and play real hockey, Green likes a rough game, they should improve.
Buffalo there ahs to be a year where their dumpster fever breaks.
Detroit I think they made some smart decisions, they will be better this year.
Montreal is pure dogshit.

I expect it to come down to FLA/BOS/TOR. I understand TB’s moves from the perspective of getting younger but I think they are a worse team than last year. I rather have Stamkos than Guentzel tbh. And I rather have Sergachev than JJ Moser. I just think Tampa is gonna take a hit offensively. Hedman is another year older too.

 

[ULF_55]

It's going to be a dog fight if the Leafs cant find a way to improve their team defence.

Tampa is on the down curve but Kucherov, Vas and Hedman are the 3 headed monster.
Boston was supposed to take a step back last year but kicked our ass on the regular, Pasta, Swayman, Marchand, McAvoy.. c'mon they are as good or better than us
Ottawa - maybe they pull their heads out of their asses and play real hockey, Green likes a rough game, they should improve.
Buffalo there ahs to be a year where their dumpster fever breaks.
Detroit I think they made some smart decisions, they will be better this year.
Montreal is pure dogshit.

Buffalo and Ottawa ... every year they make that step ... and then don't.

 

[francis246]

Don't get me wrong... I HATE the idea of signing him too...

But cap space is only as good as what you can actually do with it.

You look at the list of impending UFAs for next year, adn it's not exactly an overwhelming list.

Shesterkin is he really gonna leave New York?

Rantanen would he really leave Colorado? and if he would, would it not put us in a similar position as Marner today with too many high $ forwards?

Draisaitl would be great, but I suspect that if he doesn't stay in Edmonton, he's not staying in Canada.

Ekblad I cannot imagine is leaving Florida.

So woho does that leave you? Boeser? Provorov? Ehlers? Mangiapane? Konecny? Theodore? Verhaege? It's not an overly spectacular group, and that's before the list gets paired down by resignings. It's also not really featuring that 1 stud defenceman that we've been after for a while.

This is why earlier in the thread I said not trading Marner before the draft or at the draft or at least on day one of UFA was a missed opportunity. The leafs don’t need a big UFA signing. They need cap space and assets so they can be the ones to acquire a guy like Sergachev if he becomes available. Those are the moves you want to be in on if you decide to move on from Marner. Not blowing your cap on UFA’s.

 

[ULF_55]

This is why earlier in the thread I said not trading Marner before the draft or at the draft or at least on day one of UFA was a missed opportunity. The leafs don’t need a big UFA signing. They need cap space and assets so they can be the ones to acquire a guy like Sergachev if he becomes available. Those are the moves you want to be in on if you decide to move on from Marner. Not blowing your cap on UFA’s.

marner wouldn't go to $%^&%# even though Trevliving had a franchise altering offer.

Yeah, just made that up and it is probably as accurate as anything that has been "reported".

If marner decides he is being traded to X, he'll let the team know.

 

[francis246]

marner wouldn't go to $%^&%# even though Trevliving had a franchise altering offer.

Yeah, just made that up and it is probably as accurate as anything that has been "reported".

If marner decides he is being traded to X, he'll let the team know.

For sure, I don’t even think he was approached. It sure doesn’t even seem like he was approached to waive. Ultimately maybe the boat to trade one of Nylander or Marner was missed. Just gotta get through this season. Would be amazing if they pull off the win this year and then still let him walk haha. That would be gold

 

[34]

Mitch is not going anywhere. He is going to hold the MLSE at gunpoint and exploit them.

 

[ULF_55]

Mitch is not going anywhere. He is going to hold the MLSE at gunpoint and exploit them.

If Leafs end up with $20mm cap-space next year they'll have agents knocking on their doors.

 

[34]

If Leafs end up with $20mm cap-space next year they'll have agents knocking on their doors.

You mean 91 and 16 off the books? That would free up $22M in cap.

 

[Antropovsky]

Finally you've learned somethign about competitive sports ...fiiiiiinnnnaaaalllly.....

.. yup no doubt about it, your definitely are one of the Marner supporters. Same IQ. They are even welcoming you with open arms, liking all your posts.

 

[HolyCrap]

.. yup no doubt about it, your definitely are one of the Marner supporters. Same IQ. They are even welcoming you with open arms, liking all your posts.

These posters are equating the same with losing in the first round to same as losing in the final round. At least if the team was competing in deeper rounds we know we’re getting closer to the end goal. You can’t make this stuff up.lol.

 

[Nineteen67]

When they were going over injuries in the season ender presser they literally mentioned nothing about Mitch having lingering effects from his injury. He had plenty of time to recover from it before the playoffs.

Didn’t he bark at reporters for suggesting he had ankle sprain. My guess it was something in his calf

 

[Nineteen67]

It's well known that Marner had a high ankle sprain last year.

Well speculated.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Still seems like overpaying Nylander instead of moving him was a big missed opportunity for a core , correction.
Hopefully I'm wrong here and not Treliving.

Considering Nylander is a bit better player, particularly in the playoffs, and is likely to be less of an overpayment than Marner, I think Tre probably made the right choice.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The Leafs should have come out and said it. It would take some of the heat off the kid. The Leafs are certainly not doing him any favours IMO.

They "came out and said it" about Matthews and Nylander. Why not Marner?

 

[notDatsyuk]

There is a challenge in being "shrewd", in that if not done correctly, you get yourself backed into a corner.

Take Nylander as an example. His comparables were all in the $8.5-$10m range. They could have traded him to any of the 31 other teams in the league. Instead, they waited, NMC kicks in, he started off hot, and inexplicably, he's being paid $11.5m x 8 years.

With Marner, they're in a VERY difficult position. He holds all the cards and the Leafs seem perfectly willing to "let the situaton play out".

There's only 3 possible outcomes for this... you trade him in the offseason, or either you let him walk as a UFA, or you cave and give him another exorbinant contract.

Both of the latter two are lose-lose situations.... especially considering a quick look at the UFA list for 2025. His $11m is probably going to go pretty quickly to some unspectacular players.

Not quite accurate about Nylander.

They apparently entertained offers but didn't like any of them. Plus, he didn't have a full NMC, only a modified one: the full NMC only came with the extension. Unfortunately for Tre, Willy had a comparable on the same team, who had been making $11M for several years at that point: from that perspective, $11.5 x 8 isn't inexplicable at all.

As far as Marner goes, his NMC and current overpayment make it hard to trade him now. The "let him walk" may be the best of the scenarios.

 

[ToneDog]

Not quite accurate about Nylander.

They apparently entertained offers but didn't like any of them. Plus, he didn't have a full NMC, only a modified one: the full NMC only came with the extension. Unfortunately for Tre, Willy had a comparable on the same team, who had been making $11M for several years at that point: from that perspective, $11.5 x 8 isn't inexplicable at all.

Unfortunately that sets the table for Marner, who will claim he is better. Seriously, these 3 guys are a joke when it comes to contracts with their 1 and 8 record in playoffs.