Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[ULF_55]

Marner might be alot of things but he's also a elite talent who can play anywhere from 1 to 9 and make players better he's a superstar on any team that doesn't have matthews 1 year doesn't prove anything if we run talent like his out of town plan the parade somewhere else

Yes, he's good, but at this point he isn't a NHL winner.

He hasn't proven to be anything other than a regular season star.

That's it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The problem is all inside your head, Shanny said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to sign Marner
Shanny said, it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to sign Marner
Fifty ways to sign Marner
We'll just suck at the back, Jack
Stick with the Shanaplan
Be regular season heroes, Roy
Get the bottom 6 for free
In Marner we trust, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
The powerplay is the key, Lee
We still have no shooter up top
Ooh, spend peanuts on the back, Jack
Stick with the shanaplan
Throw gloves in a fit of rage, Roy
You just listen to me
8 years of Marner is a must, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
He's an instagram star, Lee
Looked at as a God you see

Shanny said it grieves him to see Mitchy in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make him smile again
The team really appreciates that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways
Shanny said, why don't we all just sleep on it tonight?
And I believe in the morning you'll all begin to see the light
And then he showed me his three rings and I realized he probably was right
There must be fifty ways to sign Mitch Marner
Fifty ways to sign Mitch Marner

Shouldn't that be "fifty way to leave your Marner"?

 

[PanniniClaus]

Shouldn't that be "fifty way to leave your Marner"?

No ... signs are pointing towards him signing and we will try another 50 ways to make it work. Tried about 20 so far so what's 50 more? Penny pinch everywhere and get the same soft as shit output in the playoffs. This is not all on Marner.. not at all.. but someone needs to go and he is the most obvious (coaching aside). So we will run it back and try again.. .. try, try again

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner might be alot of things but he's also a elite talent who can play anywhere from 1 to 9 and make players better he's a superstar on any team that doesn't have matthews 1 year doesn't prove anything if we run talent like his out of town plan the parade somewhere else

What players has "he made better"?

Kadri, Tavares, Matthews, Hyman?

For a guy that reportedly makes others so much better.. he seems to have only played with star players who've actually played better without Marner.

- Kadri was elite in Colorado
- Hyman elite goal scorer in Edmonton. But not in Toronto with Mutch "the best pure playmaker" Marner.
- Tavares was a two time Hart finalist on the Island with no star linemates.
- Matthews was nearly 2x more productive 5v5 without Marner vs with Marner this season.

Where is the evidence that Marner has made anyone better?

Marner had his first postseason where he wasn't riding a star centers coat tails every game and he came up with 3 points, 8 ev shots in 7 games. The only leaf players who averaged less shots per/60 in the playoffs than Marner were the bottom 4 defenseman, Ryan Reaves and Gregor.

Maybe it's been the other star guys propping Marner up?

 

[Superstar]

What players has "he made better"?

Kadri, Tavares, Matthews, Hyman?

For a guy that reportedly makes others so much better.. he seems to have only played with star players who've actually played better without Marner.

- Kadri was elite in Colorado
- Hyman elite goal scorer in Edmonton. But not in Toronto with Mutch "the best pure playmaker" Marner.
- Tavares was a two time Hart finalist on the Island with no star linemates.
- Matthews was nearly 2x more productive 5v5 without Marner vs with Marner this season.

Where is the evidence that Marner has made anyone better?

Marner had his first postseason where he wasn't riding a star centers coat tails every game and he came up with 3 points, 8 ev shots in 7 games. The only leaf players who averaged less shots per/60 in the playoffs than Marner were the bottom 4 defenseman, Ryan Reaves and Gregor.

Maybe it's been the other star guys propping Marner up?

Marner is also the biggest reason Matthews can't get 120 points because the guy's got a weak shot...Marner's a career average 24 goal scorer making almost $11 million per...now, the guy wants $12.5 million per...that's laughable.

 

[Arzak]

Marner is also the biggest reason Matthews can't get 120 points because the guy's got a weak shot...Marner's a career average 24 goal scorer making almost $11 million per...now, the guy wants $12.5 million per...that's laughable.

@ 5M per year he would be a great regular season attraction, he would still be the cancer that holds us from competing for the cup in SC playoffs.

Get rid of him. You can't build a team around scared winger.

 

[francis246]

Mitch only has 1 older brother Christopher .. So perhaps he acts more like the spoiled little brother syndrome.

Ironically Chris is a fire fighter (IIRC) who fearlessly rushes into burning buildings unafraid of his own safety, while Mitch is so scared to play in traffic, intimidated by physical play and won't even win a physical puck battle because self preservation from any physical harm as a soft perimeter player is his modus operandi.

Its why Casper the Friendly ghost struggles each playoffs when the checking gets tight and the physical play is ramped up to a 9 out 10, and Marner checks out. The least likely North-South player on the Leafs, a style the new coach prefers to play. Making Mitch essentially a square peg in a round hole as far as fit for Leafs new direction forward system and style.

View attachment 892736

Does no one else find posts like these incredibly weird and odd? Or is it just me?

 

[thewave]

Does no one else find posts like these incredibly weird and odd? Or is it just me?

Not really. I am a huge Christopher Marner fan. Why whats got ya bothered Francis?

 

[Hellcat]

I do believe Marner is under-appreciated by our fan base.

Whether it is his public negotiations of his contract, “shambles” / “god” comment, and handling of criticism, Marner is not very media savvy and it results in more than his fair share of criticism from the fanbase.

The reality is all members of the core deserve equal blame for the disastrous playoff performances to date.

It wasn't long ago where Marner was the golden child and Willie was the pariah ... for reasons I will never understand. talent is talent. I think in this market you need thick skin and to be a bit of a douche. If Marner and I were on a boat I'd push him off just to get space from him, he seems to be a complete child, preppy douche bag, entitled whiner that has the brains of an ant. What he is, is also is one of the best, if not the best RW set up men in the league, an elite defender (has received Selke votes), absolutely ridiculous edges and a decent scorer. We watch the team to see them win a cup not a popularity contest. Give me 18 Brad Marchand's. Guaranteed, if Mitch leaves or is traded, in a few years the same fans who are belly aching to have him booted out of town, will be crying for an elite two way forward who can score more than a PPG.

Marner is also the biggest reason Matthews can't get 120 points because the guy's got a weak shot...Marner's a career average 24 goal scorer making almost $11 million per...now, the guy wants $12.5 million per...that's laughable.

Why is 120 points important? Wasn't the team 2nd in goal scoring last year? They were one of two teams who scored more than 300 goals, 303 vs Colorado's 304. More points for Matty is not the issue, less goals against is. BTW, in 2021-22 Matty was on a 119 point pace for an 82 game season.

 

[Hellcat]

Does no one else find posts like these incredibly weird and odd? Or is it just me?

Clearly Mess had one beer too many at the family BBQ, the guy gets a pass IMO, we all have had our beer goggles moments ...

Yes, he's good, but at this point he isn't a NHL winner.

He hasn't proven to be anything other than a regular season star.

That's it.

Thanks ULF for stating the obvious.

 

[Hellcat]

This is the first Leafs era I’ve watched where we had a significant home grown crop of core players come up in a rebuild and over the years feel like I learned a lot about the coaching and motivational side, the psychological side and the culture side.

In the past under Burns and Quinn, culture never seemed to be a real issue. They were conventional veteran teams and for all the Muskoka 5 talk they were just an old team that wasn’t deep or good enough in their last days.

Under Burke and Nonis we were just never good enough skill wise for culture to even be top 5 on the list.

And now we have this fantastic skilled core group and they just behave in the weirdest ways under pressure. Fundamentally unserious core. Seem like nice people but their workmanship and consistency is very poor. I don’t think they even understand what they’re supposed to be learning when they lose. I don’t think they understand what a process even is. They show up. Then they don’t show up. They get embarrassed. They show up. For a bit.

All correct IMO - I still think in a large part it was Keefe, who I feel makes people dumber for listening to his speeches. I mean what coach in a playoff overtime game says who wants to be the hero? I mean that sort of shit just gets in a person head and now you are playing to be the hero vs knowing your assignments, talking about set plays, focused on defending... he is a bad coach. You see those sort of hero plays in the Leafs game, lack of details, like that game ending OT goal in game 7, Pasta beat 2 of our top 5 players like they were the girls high school varsity team. Did the coach have that conversation with his skaters, guys watch out for the stretch pass, guys dont let Pasta or Marchand get behind you. Marner, Rielly and Woll all looked like they were literally day dreaming on that play. This lack of detail comes from your leader.

You can't win in the playoffs if you dont have detail in your game, the team as a whole lacked that detail. This lack of detail is on the coaching staff to correct. Edmonton went from a team with elite players who couldn't win to a team with elite players who couldn't lose. All because their new coach knows how to coach the details.

 

[Legion34]

He’s probably staying. Before cap friendly died. The leafs had 29 million in cap with 6 D. 2 goalies and 7 forwards.

Mccabe
Knies
Marner
JT.
Cowan
And a 2 c fits easily

 

[ToneDog]

He’s probably staying. Before cap friendly died. The leafs had 29 million in cap with 6 D. 2 goalies and 7 forwards.

Mccabe
Knies
Marner
JT.
Cowan
And a 2 c fits easily

Tre needs to replace a couple of soft wingers with a couple of wingers who check and play a heavy game. Even with Bert, we were not "heavy" enough to compete with Florida. On paper, it is clear to me, this group is not getting past round #1.

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s July 6th and according to Cap Friendly the Leafs are over the cap by $694,667 with 11F, 9D and 3G signed.

The core four AAV this year:
Matthews 13,250,000
Nylander 11,500,000
Tavares 11,000,000
Marner 10,903,000

If you want to be serious about winning the East, you don’t have so many unproven situations on your roster.

 

[GoonieFace]

 

[tmlfan98]

To me the only potentially interesting aspect of not trading Marner, depending on how Berube constructs the lines, is he can potentially negate the fact that the team will likely be weak down the middle once again this season, IF Berube is willing to do what Keefe never tried for a respectable sample size: play Matthews/Nylander/Marner on separate lines.

Domi-Matthews-???
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
???-Holmberg/Minten-Marner

This is pretty much the only way I can see running it back again having even a remote possibility of working. For as much as Keefe earned a reputation as a serial tinkerer, he never really changed areas of the lineup that mattered. And he was the head coach of this team for 5 seasons.

 

[Notsince67]

To me the only potentially interesting aspect of not trading Marner, depending on how Berube constructs the lines, is he can potentially negate the fact that the team will likely be weak down the middle once again this season, IF Berube is willing to do what Keefe never tried for a respectable sample size: play Matthews/Nylander/Marner on separate lines.

Domi-Matthews-???
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
???-Holmberg/Minten-Marner

This is pretty much the only way I can see running it back again having even a remote possibility of working. For as much as Keefe earned a reputation as a serial tinkerer, he never really changed areas of the lineup that mattered. And he was the head coach of this team for 5 seasons.

The inter-dynamics of forwards change with a radical change to the d. The efficacy of zone denial and defensive zone exits change the playing requirement of the forwards. Multi skilled forwards can change their focus. I think the population of forward outcomes change. Even a shift from east west to north south due to coaching requires a shift to balance speed etc. Without seeing what comes of the roster and coaching change, I think it's difficult to know what the lines are going to look like.

 

[Shooter2x]

Our defensive results will only get better with Tanev in the lineup. Shut down Boston good in games 5-7, we just couldn't score (as usual) in game 7 to take the series.

Here's the thing. If Marner even increases his offensive output that series by 1 meagre point, the series would have flipped to us.

Trading Marner is going to be a set back. It's easier to hold out for a 10% increase from him which is easily attainable.

Obviously we want elite offence from Marner, not a 10% increase, but it's a simple example of the risk were taking by having to first fill up marners impact that we will lose and then succeeding it as well. It's stupid and nonsensical to do.

Running it back with Marner is such an obvious decision to make. The year will come when he finally takes off in the post season.

*Forgot to explicitly state Marner has an impact on those defensive results when I use the word setback. It won't just be an offensive fill.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Does no one else find posts like these incredibly weird and odd? Or is it just me?

I'm convinced Mess is from another planet.

 

[Roo]

Unless he decides that he really doesn't want to play here (hostile environment) this coming season, there's not much point in waiving, just wait out the year and sign here or try FA.

I can only see one situation, where he might want to waive. If he thinks that, as a free agent, he won't get more than say $10M, but if he agrees to a sign-and-trade he might get more.

Some posters think he would get $12M as an FA, and it would be interesting to know what he thinks.

It will really come down to this season’s performance. My only issue with Marner is that he puts up the points but often cheats to do it. We see the mistakes amplified in the playoffs, but it happens a lot in the regular season too. We’ll see what Berube does with him. He has all the talent in the world, so $11-12m a year is definitely a possibility for someone like him.

Also, I don’t buy the ‘greed’ comments. We don’t know what he is willing to sign for. Just because his current deal was overpayment, that’s not on him. Everyone will negotiate for as much as they think they are worth. It’s the GM that agrees/disagrees in the end. If he walks for top dollar, yes then we can claim greed. For all we know he wants to be a leaf for life.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Shooting the MESSenger is very lame. The Marner apologists have nothing. So they attack the messenger.

Sad to say it looks like no team wants Marner. They will get him for cheap when he implodes this year.

He doesn't have the fortitude to play for a team that doesnt want him. He knows the team isnt interested.
EVERYONE knows it.

Marner is dead wrong if he thinks he can play through this.

 

[Roo]

Shooting the MESSenger is very lame. The Marner apologists have nothing. So they attack the messenger.

Sad to say it looks like no team wants Marner. They will get him for cheap when he implodes this year.

He doesn't have the fortitude to play for a team that doesnt want him. He knows that now.
EVERYONE knows it.

Marner is dead wrong if he thinks he can play through this.

He’s from Toronto and wants to win here. Everything the team has stated indicates he will play the season in Toronto. Marner will be on a mission to prove himself next year, esp in a contract year. This reads more like what you want to believe as opposed to reality.

 

[notdoneyet]

Yes, he's good, but at this point he isn't a NHL winner.

He hasn't proven to be anything other than a regular season star.

That's it.

You mean just like nylander matthews and tavares

 

[keonsbitterness]

Shooting the MESSenger is very lame. The Marner apologists have nothing. So they attack the messenger.

Sad to say it looks like no team wants Marner. They will get him for cheap when he implodes this year.

He doesn't have the fortitude to play for a team that doesnt want him. He knows that now.
EVERYONE knows it.

Marner is dead wrong if he thinks he can play through this.

Last two months of your posts not looking too good right now.

 

[Mess]

Not really. I am a huge Christopher Marner fan. Why whats got ya bothered Francis?

The reason Mitch brother Chris remains in my conscience when discussing Marner, is because of how Mark Hunter at the time of draft used him to sell Leafs Nation on trying to support the selection #4 overall.

Chris Marner had a late growth spurt shooting up to 6-2, so Mark Hunter was hoping that would also happen for Mitch the small undersized winger coming in at 5-11 165 lbs.

Hunter also told us Marner would eventually be moved to centre, in an attempt to avoid the obvious that Centres and Dmen have higher priority building block positions than Wingers do.

Mark Hunter wasted a lot of Leafs draft capital drafting small soft players (which many thought were waisted picks) ie Bracco, Brooks, Dzerkial, Timosov, etc etc.

The issue with the Marner selection wasn't much different, in that the core of the reason to trade him NOW, that he plays too small and too soft and avoids contract, preferring a perimeter game which doesn't translate well to playoff style hockey of hard hitting and tight checking, and physically punishing and if you're afriad to play in traffic as self preservaton from getting hit or hurt, you will not be successful under those conditions.

Now toss in cost.. A winger is the least important building block position (each team 2 X G, and 4 X C and 6 X D and 8 X Wingers) , so now paying Marner more/equal to an elite #1C like Nathan MacKinnon coming off a 140 point season Hart and Lindsey and recent. You simply can't pay a secondary support position ** winger ** then you can an elite #1C that you build strength down the middle. You should be investing your highest Cap into #1C, #1G and Top Pairing Dmen.

Now that Leafs have overpayed Nylander a winger among the best, there simply is no available Cap Space room to build a Cup winning team with a 2nd winger making top 5 AAV. If Marner had been moved to centre in the NHL while playing winger in Junior than investing $12 mil in a elite C, and there would have been no need to every bring in Tavares either.