Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[sunstersun]

I usually avoid this toxic cesspool when the Leafs lose so I'm flattered that you called me out and care about my opinion. Here is it. Nothing has changed just as I said before the playoffs even started. A few rough games and a few great games doesn't change anything.

Marner is a superstar and will be re-signed at about $12.5 and he and Matthews are the only untouchables.

Here is what you said hours before the last game.



And here is what you wrote hours after that game.


Now, I could break down game tape for you but these two posts are an excellent proxy for all the Marner haters.

You guys appear to have A LOT of your self worth vested in the Leafs. I don't get it. I don't have friends or family who would put so much of their life into watching sports however I do have some family who put a ton of time into playing sports but that's healthy. I record the games fast forward through the commercials and intermissions and it costs me about 1.5 hours per game. The Leafs just aren't THAT important to me. As soon as they lose in the playoffs I stop watching. Hockey just isn't THAT important to me. I really don't belong here. You guys live the Leafs and spend a ton of time repeating yourselves in forums for some reason, it makes me wonder how horrible the rest of your lives are.

Now back to the wildly oscillating posts as they really do reflect the emotional roller coaster of the haters. When the Leafs are winning you guys love them. When they are losing you guys lose your minds need someone to blame. You guys NEED to vent. You NEED someone to HATE. I don't. I've got a tee time.

There's no use is trying to convince you that Marner won't be re-signed because you need to get it out of your system which will literally take years. You all know that I'm right and that he'll be re-signed yet you post things that you know aren't going to happen. I have no idea why.

But here's the solution for you. All you have to do is imagine if the Leafs had gotten that OT goal and how you would be feeling today. Remember last year when we beat Tampa and we had the eating crow thread? It would have been even better because it would have been Boston. If one fluke goal (which is on Rielly and not Marner) in what was a great last few games is enough to flip or flop you guys again then you're just too emotional to begin with.

For all you haters, I really do feel sorry for you. He's going to get re-signed for big bucks and he should. Deal with it. Try to avoid the self reinforcing tribal circle jerk. Try to get outside. I highly recommend golf.

You'd think Marner had 5 goals and 12 points this series based on this level of delusion.

 

[3blizzard4]

Would Marner really waive his NMC to Utah? I doubt it.

 

[IPS]

You'd think Marner had 5 goals and 12 points this series based on this level of delusion.

I legitimately don't think 666 even watched the series or a second of Marner.

I think his entire existence as a Leaf fan is coming here and bickering at people who don't worship Marner. Nothing ever about the player or the games, just personal toxic nonsense about people who criticize Marner have "miserable lives". No really, go look at his post history.

Nowhere in his novel did he even mention Mitch's play in the series. You can't make this up.

 

[Commander Clueless]

yeah, I agree in terms of how he played this series. I was actually more disappointed in what he did after Game 7. That final play was on him, Marner, and Samsonov - so I get why he may feel pissed or sad or whatever immediately after.

But he's the 'A' and was deemed captain material - it would have been good for him to own the outcome. Something that Nylander, Matthews, and Tavares (captain) did. I wasn't surprised that Marner avoided the media afterwards, but a bit surprised that Rielly did as well.

I'm not one who subscribes to the notion that leadership means speaking to the media.

I'm much more concerned with how he acted with the team.


That said, it isn't a good look any way you slice it...

 

[leafs in five]

What makes you think Lou wants any part of Mitch's bullshit, especially right before he goes to UFA??

You have two options:
1. Trade Mitch now that he has full control of where he will end up
2. Let him have a career year next year and let him walk for nothing

Yes, Mitch will be motivated next season by the only thing that gets him going: $$$$$$$$

Lou is getting the 2nd round pick that we got for Mitch

 

[Commander Clueless]

Would Marner really waive his NMC to Utah? I doubt it.

Don't know for sure which teams he would like, but he has the demeanor of a man ready for change.

He has all season I think. Hasn't been the happy go lucky Mitch of old, and it shows on the ice.

 

[ToneDog]

Barzal goes from about .9 ppg in the regular season to about .75 in the playoffs. Mitch goes from about 1.1 to about .9.

Barzal led his team in goals and assists this playoffs.

0.43 in playoff series games 5-7. He's also on a 16 goal pace in the playoffs. All for $10.893m and he wants more on his next deal. LOL.

 

[sunstersun]

Domi looked every bit as good setting up Matthews this season. The first line with Domi and Bertuizzi was every bit or even better than with Marner.

He's an empty stats boosted by Matthews. Look at Nylander. The dude has to deal with Tavares, who SUCKS. When Marner was a way from Matthews the performance fell massively. He couldn't drive a line in the regular season.

That in combination with the god awful postseason performance says it all no?

Let's move on.

 

[hockeynugget]

I usually avoid this toxic cesspool when the Leafs lose so I'm flattered that you called me out and care about my opinion. Here is it. Nothing has changed just as I said before the playoffs even started. A few rough games and a few great games doesn't change anything.

Marner is a superstar and will be re-signed at about $12.5 and he and Matthews are the only untouchables.

Here is what you said hours before the last game.



And here is what you wrote hours after that game.


Now, I could break down game tape for you but these two posts are an excellent proxy for all the Marner haters.

You guys appear to have A LOT of your self worth vested in the Leafs. I don't get it. I don't have friends or family who would put so much of their life into watching sports however I do have some family who put a ton of time into playing sports but that's healthy. I record the games fast forward through the commercials and intermissions and it costs me about 1.5 hours per game. The Leafs just aren't THAT important to me. As soon as they lose in the playoffs I stop watching. Hockey just isn't THAT important to me. I really don't belong here. You guys live the Leafs and spend a ton of time repeating yourselves in forums for some reason, it makes me wonder how horrible the rest of your lives are.

Now back to the wildly oscillating posts as they really do reflect the emotional roller coaster of the haters. When the Leafs are winning you guys love them. When they are losing you guys lose your minds need someone to blame. You guys NEED to vent. You NEED someone to HATE. I don't. I've got a tee time.

There's no use is trying to convince you that Marner won't be re-signed because you need to get it out of your system which will literally take years. You all know that I'm right and that he'll be re-signed yet you post things that you know aren't going to happen. I have no idea why.

But here's the solution for you. All you have to do is imagine if the Leafs had gotten that OT goal and how you would be feeling today. Remember last year when we beat Tampa and we had the eating crow thread? It would have been even better because it would have been Boston. If one fluke goal (which is on Rielly and not Marner) in what was a great last few games is enough to flip or flop you guys again then you're just too emotional to begin with.

For all you haters, I really do feel sorry for you. He's going to get re-signed for big bucks and he should. Deal with it. Try to avoid the self reinforcing tribal circle jerk. Try to get outside. I highly recommend golf.

Oh hey Paul, sorry but your son just doesn’t have it. Hope you enjoy Utah or wherever you sign him up.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I'll like the guy again if he waives. He doesn't even need to take ownership for his lack of leadership lack of production, lack of accountability, just waive and I'll respect it.

 

[Nineteen67]

.

I have a hard time trying to convince myself Marner should be traded. Like, I know something's gotta give with this team. But talents like him are near impossible to find, draft, develop and/or sign.

But frig, the amount he will be seeking and signing for, coupled with his lacklustre playoff performances, certainly gives long pause for thought as to whether trading him and earmarking that money elsewhere would be best for the team in the long-run. Between his salary, Tavares's coming off next year, and the incremental salary cap increases -- that could go a long way in filling the holes and rounding out the roster in a much different way than what's been thrown out there the last six years.

But he can’t play in the hard games. Something is wrong with him

 

[4thline]

Everyone is saying go inside and play a more north south game.

Excuse me with what ability? He is small, weak, very afraid of any contact. He has a weak shot. He's slow. Even if he ends up with a new playstyle, why would he be good at it?

No one expects him to start leaning on guys and successfully imposing his will- just take the ice that is given even if it comes with a chance of being hit. The McAvoy bailout and Swayman turnover are textbook examples, and there was another couple of times where scrambles lead to him having the puck at the side of the net with space to close in- he chose to fade to the outside/high

 

[Trapper]

Keller, Crouse and a 3rd (yes)
Necas + 1st + Orlov (yes)
Bratt + 1st + Bastian (yes)
Petro + 2nd (no)
Saros + cap space (probably not)
Boldy + Brodin (love Boldy - yes)
Sorokin (yes but I try to get a pick from Lou)
Chych + Pinto + 2nd (yes)
Garland + Hronek + 1st (no)
MacTavish (maybe)
Gibson + Zegras (no)
Johnson + 2nd + 3rd (yes)
Guhle + Matheson + 1st + 2nd (yes)
Panarin + Kakko + 5th for Marner + Robertson (no)

We’ve had discussions of lots of good moves that could change the dynamic and playoff ability of the team. Good moves exist, it might not be the 1 for 1 that people seem fixated on. Lots of good ways to improve with a package.

I’m at the point where I don’t even care. Nice someone and if we have to fight for the playoffs, so be it. Tampa and Colorado had to retool, and drafted high before finally punching through. This is Matthews and Nylander’s team now. Make the changes around.

 

[Mess]

Still remember that 2015 draft like a kid in a candy store but with no real right answer as to who to pick. We came unexpectedly close to the McDavid pick and that was devastating, but there were so many other things available. Marner or Strome. Who would fall to us? Do we even want Strome? Or Hanifin or Provorov. Or a darkhorse Werenski. Whispers of the Leafs liking Rantanen too.

In the end, Marner was the right choice and a home run. Maybe Rantanen was a grand slam but whatever. At the time it was just such an abstract problem but like you said the fear that Marner might not be a playoff guy came true.

There was very little that Dubas got right as GM, but if you recall back to that draft then interim GM Dubas made a trade offer to the Columbus Blue Jackets to move down from #4 to #8 in the draft (for a pair of additions 2nds) and President John Davidson and GM Jarmo Kekalainen eventually turned it down. There was actual cell phone video at that time from their draft table discussing and then deciding the cost was to high in such a strong draft class.

Apparently at #8 the Leafs were looking at Zach Werenksi (also a Mark Hunter recruit for London Knights) and/or Rantanen,

I still wonder what could or would have been had Arizona drafted Marner #3OA in 2015 and then he would have been lost in the desert as a PPG . Mitch is a highly talent player but needs to be supported with talented goal scorers and finishers around him as a "playmaker" who relies on others to produce and drive his point totals. In the playoffs where time and space decreases so does his effectiveness as teams simply cover defend the true goal scorers and essentially get a 2 for 1 defense deal by nullifying Marner finishers,

 

[seventieslord]

Probably the best way to get a good return on Marner is to trade him a few weeks before the deadline. If you compare him to the returns other calibers of player have gotten, he could return an amazing package. Now of course, teams that are in a playoff spot and loading up for a long run don't do that. So it would be a ballsy move. But here's what you do, if you're in a playoff spot and you think you have a roster that can do something, you take those assets you got just before the deadline, and you go back into buyer mode. And this time you buy up the things that your team has always needed more than a soft small winger making 11 million dollars.

Maybe you get lucky and you can do the same thing with JT.

In any case, maybe it's overstating it to say that those are ballsy moves because we haven't achieved a single thing with them, so we're not really risking anything by letting them go just before the playoffs, and it can always be spun as asset management, trading them before you lose them for nothing when their contracts expire.

The team has always needed to be better balanced. You would be able to do that in one shot if you make the right couple of moves. You can't sit there waiting to make the perfect hockey trade with marner. You're never going to find the right one that works from money, position, and skill set standpoint. You probably need to be a seller and then a buyer in separate transactions. It's a unique case because we are a team in their contention window trying to unload our second or third best player who is in his prime and on an expiring contract.

I admit I hate the thought of either of these guys playing another 55 games for the Leafs but maybe that's the best way to go about it long-term.

 

[Trapper]

There was very little that Dubas got right as GM, but if you recall back to that draft then interim GM Dubas made a trade offer to the Columbus Blue Jackets to move down from #4 to #8 in the draft (for a pair of additions 2nds) and President John Davidson and GM Jarmo Kekalainen eventually turned it down. There was actual cell phone video at that time from their draft table discussing and then deciding the cost was to high in such a strong draft class.

Apparently at #8 the Leafs were looking at Zach Werenksi (also a Mark Hunter recruit for London Knights) and/or Rantanen,

I still wonder what could or would have been had Arizona drafted Marner #3OA in 2015 and then he would have been lost in the desert as a PPG . Mitch is a highly talent player but needs to be supported with talented goal scorers and finishers around him as a "playmaker" who relies on others to produce and drive his point totals. In the playoffs where time and space decreases so does his effectiveness as teams simply cover defend the true goal scorers and essentially get a 2 for 1 defense deal by nullifying Marner finishers,

There was nothing wrong with drafting Marner where we did. And I’m not fan at all.

However, that doesn’t mean you have to pay guys 11 million or never move them when you see bigger needs in other areas.

At the time we drafted Marner we had no idea how Nylander would look in the NHL and that we would sign JT. However when we did, many here said don’t pay 4 forwards half the cap.

Not retooling the D with 4 forwards as assets was the issue. Not the draft.

 

[MSZ]

I usually avoid this toxic cesspool when the Leafs lose so I'm flattered that you called me out and care about my opinion. Here is it. Nothing has changed just as I said before the playoffs even started. A few rough games and a few great games doesn't change anything.

Marner is a superstar and will be re-signed at about $12.5 and he and Matthews are the only untouchables.

Here is what you said hours before the last game.



And here is what you wrote hours after that game.


Now, I could break down game tape for you but these two posts are an excellent proxy for all the Marner haters.

You guys appear to have A LOT of your self worth vested in the Leafs. I don't get it. I don't have friends or family who would put so much of their life into watching sports however I do have some family who put a ton of time into playing sports but that's healthy. I record the games fast forward through the commercials and intermissions and it costs me about 1.5 hours per game. The Leafs just aren't THAT important to me. As soon as they lose in the playoffs I stop watching. Hockey just isn't THAT important to me. I really don't belong here. You guys live the Leafs and spend a ton of time repeating yourselves in forums for some reason, it makes me wonder how horrible the rest of your lives are.

Now back to the wildly oscillating posts as they really do reflect the emotional roller coaster of the haters. When the Leafs are winning you guys love them. When they are losing you guys lose your minds and need someone to blame. You guys NEED to vent. You NEED someone to HATE. I don't. I've got a tee time.

There's no use is trying to convince you that Marner won't be re-signed because you need to get it out of your system which will literally take years. You all know that I'm right and that he'll be re-signed yet you post things that you know aren't going to happen. I have no idea why.

But here's the solution for you. All you have to do is imagine if the Leafs had gotten that OT goal and how you would be feeling today. Remember last year when we beat Tampa and we had the eating crow thread? It would have been even better because it would have been Boston. If one fluke goal (which is on Rielly and not Marner) in what was a great last few games is enough to flip or flop you guys again then you're just too emotional to begin with.

For all you haters, I really do feel sorry for you. He's going to get re-signed for big bucks and he should. Deal with it. Try to avoid the self reinforcing tribal circle jerk. Try to get outside. I highly recommend golf.

Mcdavid is a superstar. MacKinnon is a superstar. Mitch Marner is anything but. He sucks and a novel wrote by a delusional blind fanboy like you won't change it.

Can't wait until the team get rid of him so the rest of us can truly enjoy hockey once again.

 

[666]

Lol you seem legitimately more interested in Marner being on the team than the team actually winning anything.

Nowhere anywhere did you mention the incredibly terrible series Marner had. I think your ego won't let you admit that he was one of the biggest culprits of losing the series.

Anybody who criticizes Marner is a "hater" even though he put up a measley 3 points in 7 games and lost his check on the series winning goal.


I think you're very disconnected from the rest of the fanbase in your own little bubble there, you ever talk to other Leafs fans? Most of them are over this core 4.

I'm repeating myself but it's not Marners fault that we've made cap mistakes particularly with Tavares. I most definitely want Marner on this team for the rest of his career because we CAN win with Marner and Matthews as the core. Anyone would kill for M&M together.

Marner had a pretty typical playoff as did the rest of the Leafs. They all deserve some criticism particularly early in the series but those last three games were great and the last game was a coin toss. What more could you ask for playing a team that beat us in the regular season. Now if Marner get's that fluke goal and we win, do you think that the Boston fans blame Marchand and Pasta for getting zero points in the last 3 games. Well, that would be stupid because they both played pretty good. It's a tradition around here to blame Marner because he gets paid a lot. But that's just as stupid. It's a team game and we came really close.

Most of my friends are Leafs fans. We're just not obsessed. We have many other things to do like golf. It's just not that important. We're not thrilled but we were certainly entertained and have already moved on. With a new coach, cap increases, Cowan, Holl, Robertson, Knives, Domi etc and Tavares off the books in one more season the future is bright.

 

[namttebih]

Mitch "God" Marner

 

[Menzinger]

Not a bad response. Going to be a tough day for him given he's clearly not the biggest fan of the media.

The bigger questions will get answered one way or another over the next month or so

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner has no clue how to talk to the media.

 

[francis246]

Marner has no clue how to talk to the media.

Posted in the new thread I’m done defending the guy. That media avail turned me right off him as a player. Everyone who said he’s toxic was right. Good player but his mentality is detrimental for our locker room

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I legitimately don't think 666 even watched the series or a second of Marner.

I think his entire existence as a Leaf fan is coming here and bickering at people who don't worship Marner. Nothing ever about the player or the games, just personal toxic nonsense about people who criticize Marner have "miserable lives". No really, go look at his post history.

Nowhere in his novel did he even mention Mitch's play in the series. You can't make this up.

I think she's Mrs. Marner.

 

[Madap]

He’s gotta go. He’s a great player obviously, but either he can’t handle playoff hockey or he fades under the Toronto pressure. Hopefully it’s the latter as he may be more inclined to waive his NMC and other teams may be more willing to pay closer to full price if they believe he’ll do well in a smaller market.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Probably the best way to get a good return on Marner is to trade him a few weeks before the deadline. If you compare him to the returns other calibers of player have gotten, he could return an amazing package. Now of course, teams that are in a playoff spot and loading up for a long run don't do that. So it would be a ballsy move. But here's what you do, if you're in a playoff spot and you think you have a roster that can do something, you take those assets you got just before the deadline, and you go back into buyer mode. And this time you buy up the things that your team has always needed more than a soft small winger making 11 million dollars.

Maybe you get lucky and you can do the same thing with JT.

In any case, maybe it's overstating it to say that those are ballsy moves because we haven't achieved a single thing with them, so we're not really risking anything by letting them go just before the playoffs, and it can always be spun as asset management, trading them before you lose them for nothing when their contracts expire.

The team has always needed to be better balanced. You would be able to do that in one shot if you make the right couple of moves. You can't sit there waiting to make the perfect hockey trade with marner. You're never going to find the right one that works from money, position, and skill set standpoint. You probably need to be a seller and then a buyer in separate transactions. It's a unique case because we are a team in their contention window trying to unload our second or third best player who is in his prime and on an expiring contract.

I admit I hate the thought of either of these guys playing another 55 games for the Leafs but maybe that's the best way to go about it long-term.

Trade deadline trades are usually made by Cup contenders bolstering up for a run in the playoffs? We want to get rid of Marner because he sucks in the playoffs. You think other teams don't know that?

His trade deadline value is no more or no less than that at any other time.