Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[TheShape]

I think Marner did a great job defending Pastrnak but I want the guy making north of 11 to produce offense.

Tavares absolutely played his ass off and took a beating, all well and admirable but at an 11m cap hit, playing hard isn't enough. Need to play hard AND produce.

 

[ULF_55]

I'll take him in Detroit. Who do you want? You don't usually like to trade in division but if he sucks so bad it would be worth it??

It is tough looking at the Wings roster.
So many iffy players, not in an insulting way, more in an opportunity way.
The interest would be in players you likely do not want to move.

To start there would be Cap going both ways ... so that leaves Debrincat, Larkin, Copp or Compher.
I just don't see any waiving, Debrincat's clause kicks in for the 24-25 season.

Parts to consider.

Dreams from Leafs perspective:
Seider
Raymond

Realistic reach:
Wallman
Fabri
Veleno

Cap Space *** for those saying marner is worth much more ... a shopping spree with the Cap Space ***

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If Marner agrees to waive his nmc (big if), I think a lot of people underestimate how big of a return he could bring.

Sure, it's only 1 year. But keep in mind a few things.

Half the teams in the league don't care about his playoff performances because they'd be thrilled to just make the playoffs in the first place.

And this is the big point. Half the teams in the league (probably more) care far more about real money value than cap hits. They'd be getting 1 year of Marner for 700k. Imagine all those poor teams with no star power getting a 100 point player for a season for league minimum. It would be pretty big trade value.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is at the top of my list of who to blame for losing this series. It's a simple formula in principle - how did the player perform in relation to his cap hit? Marner's cap hit is 11 million and he played like what, maybe a 5 million dollar player at best? That would be 6 million below what's expected, who else comes close to that level? I mean JT too OK but we all know he's declined a fair bit and nobody expected him to perform at a 11 million level but Marner, the kid's in his prime and not sure how anyone can give him anything but a failing grade for these playoffs.

If he'd done just a little bit more, maybe we win the series. But no, it's another loser performance by Marner, and another bitterly disappointing playoff series loss.

 

[socko]

I would take Larkin. Leafs will need more center depth as they get rid of Tavares. Larkin is Detroit's best player though, they probably turn it down. But Yzerman is also under some stress, Yzerplan has been a big fail so far and really the future doesn't look that great for him. He's taken the desperate measure of trying to jump start a rebuild with veterans. That's never a good sign for a rebuild. That means it's going poorly.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Marner agrees to waive his nmc (big if), I think a lot of people underestimate how big of a return he could bring.

Sure, it's only 1 year. But keep in mind a few things.

Half the teams in the league don't care about his playoff performances because they'd be thrilled to just make the playoffs in the first place.

And this is the big point. Half the teams in the league (probably more) care far more about real money value than cap hits. They'd be getting 1 year of Marner for 700k. Imagine all those poor teams with no star power getting a 100 point player for a season for league minimum. It would be pretty big trade value.

I've said this many times before, basically ever since we lost to MTL and I broached the idea of trading Marner for the first time. Marner would be worth a lot more to these teams than he is to us. Literally the only knock on the guy is that he fades in the playoffs but for teams that don't care about that, he's perfect. He's an entertaining ticket selling money making machine and that's worth a ton to these teams.

 

[ULF_55]

I've vented enough about playoff Marner over the years so no longer feel the need but the newfound love for Willy is getting weird. The guy was invisible nearly every shift but is now a playoff warrior because he shot into an open net after a Bruin tripped in the corner and flipped another one in from the blueline.

Luck should even out, so that posts behind the keeper that haven't gone in and the own goals ...

Not only that, but if that's just so easy ... how come the only Leafs player to score during the past 2 games were was Nylander what does that say about the rest of the players? Perhaps, they just can't handle pressure? No Tkachuk there to win the Memorial Cup?

 

[sxvnert]

If Marner completely refuses to work with management on a trade elsewhere then cut your losses and buy him out. View it as an addition by subtraction culture change type move and move on.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Agree.
I mentioned this on another thread.
Bert and Domi are the ultimate glue guys for players like AM, MM and Willie as they always seem to play well when they are on a line with Bert and Domi.
That’s why I think it is importsnt to get Domi and Bert back and actually sign more players like them.
Absolutely no point waiting for JT’s contract to expire.
MM is really the odd man out and I truly think Utah will actually willing to pay MM 13mil or more a year to get him sign with them as they want to make noise right away to attract fans and buzz.

There are some positives for da new mgmt team .. Boosh Ed Benoit and McCabe are 4 guys who can play post season hockey .. we only need a 1D and another big tough D and we got a D core for once .. between Woll and Hildeby we may have a tender who can handle playoff hockey .. and we have maybe 75% of our forward group here .. with a defensive minded coach who does not care about possession hockey who can get guys to buy into a grind game for a season we will have a much better chance to manage for a full 60 minutes in playoffs .. we got Willy and Matty to provide da required skill .. Mitch and JT ideally help us get da missing pieces .. hopefully Minten and Cowan with Holmberg and Knies and McCann and Dewar can inject some youthful life into season .. to me i would trade Robertson now because he is not a playoff type player - too small too slow and too easily controlled like Mitch .. much rather have Reavo policing a game with gregor to replace when required .. sign back Domi and Bert .. kampf and jankrok are ok too but could be replaced

Domi Matty Bert
Knies Cowan Willy
McCann Holmberg Minten/Jankrok
Dewar Kampf Reavo/Gregor
(keep 14 forwards to see how Cowan and Minten pan out)

Marner JT and Robertson traded and/or LTIRed

On D

new 1D (from Marner trade)
Benoit Boosh McCabe and Ed
Sign Lily to a 1 year cheap make or break year and if it doesn't pan out trade him at TDL or trade him now for a 1st rounder whatever

Rielly should get us a no 1 pick from a lottery team and draft Sam Dickinson to be future 1D
Marner should get us a no 1 D at lower CAP hit

Woll Hilde by Jones

Get a coach who demands a grinding style game from everyone to prepare team for playoff hockey like Q

A ton to do but this is da overall plan which is required .. if Mitch does not play ball then fine we sit him at home for season til he realizes it may kill his hockey career .. if JT does not want to get hurt and go LTIR then same program for him .. this is where da new prez needs to be tough .. Shanny can't do it .. too many family problems for him to act in teams best interest .. blood runs deeper than team .. sad but true

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If Marner completely refuses to work with management on a trade elsewhere then cut your losses and buy him out. View it as an addition by subtraction culture change type move and move on.

Buying out Marner saves the leafs 400k in cap space next year. Doesn't make sense.

According to Siegal, Marner was open to the possibility of waiving his nmc last summer. So that's hopeful I guess.

 

[ULF_55]

To late LOL

Gibson has been out there for years.
Fowler isn't waiving anyway.

 

[Aashir]

I'm not saying marner played to expectations but what I said is also truthful.

Pasta and Marchand were invisible for much the game and then 1 play all it took for pasta to be a hero. What if one of those 2 plays went in for us?

No matter how bad our D beat down pasta and Marchand to make them total crap over the last 3 games Boston will never consider getting rid of their top skill guys.

Why do we need to get rid of marner if all we need is to upgrade Lil and get a goalie ? There's no top 4 D available that is worth marner 1 for 1 or even package deal.

You don’t get it even now do you?

That play will NEVER go our way

Debrusk, Nordstrom, Foudy, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Marner’s p***y over the glass, I mean puck, Paulx2,

We never will have that play go our way with this team. Marner needs to be dealt, even if the return is exactly like kessel. Get a 1st and a teams top 3 prospect and try to build something in free agency

 

[ULF_55]

If Marner completely refuses to work with management on a trade elsewhere then cut your losses and buy him out. View it as an addition by subtraction culture change type move and move on.

His Cap Hit is the same with a buy-out (save about 600k).

Better option is to bench him for the year, same cost, and he'd beg to be traded before the Christmas freeze ...

But that's just not something a team would do.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Buying out Marner saves the leafs 400k in cap space next year. Doesn't make sense.

According to Siegal, Marner was open to the possibility of waiving his nmc last summer. So that's hopeful I guess.

Thats great to hear.

Guys socially aware enough that he is no longer celebrated here, and any more playoff stigma will hurt his career more than ever.

It was fun Mitch...

See you in another Jersey next year

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Btw, f*** Mitch Marner

 

[Gary Nylund]

Buying out Marner saves the leafs 400k in cap space next year. Doesn't make sense.

According to Siegal, Marner was open to the possibility of waiving his nmc last summer. So that's hopeful I guess.

If that's true, that's the best news I could imagine getting on a day like today.

You don’t get it even now do you?

That play will NEVER go our way

Debrusk, Nordstrom, Foudy, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Marner’s p***y over the glass, I mean puck, Paulx2,

We never will have that play go our way with this team. Marner needs to be dealt, even if the return is exactly like kessel. Get a 1st and a teams top 3 prospect and try to build something in free agency

Haha indeed. It's like saying what if we won the last 4 game 7's we've played Boston instead of losing, it's a pointless exercise.

 

[sxvnert]

Buying out Marner saves the leafs 400k in cap space next year. Doesn't make sense.

According to Siegal, Marner was open to the possibility of waiving his nmc last summer. So that's hopeful I guess.

If he isn't open to it then I would rather buyout vs paying another team to take on the entire contract (marleau style).

Obviously a PLD style trade would be the optimal solution but given how petty Marner and co have been so far I fully expect him to stick to the leafs in every way possible.

Letting this shit show drag on another year is not an option.

 

[Pavel10]

He's only owed $775K after July 1st.

Yes and who's going to pay his bonus

If he isn't open to it then I would rather buyout vs paying another team to take on the entire contract (marleau style).

Obviously a PLD style trade would be the optimal solution but given how petty Marner and co have been so far I fully expect him to stick to the leafs in every way possible.

Letting this shit show drag on another year is not an option.

In his defense he's being individually blamed for the collective failure of the entire team.

 

[Evilhomer]

I wonder if they can convince him (and Lou) to go to Long Island for Dobson.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

His Cap Hit is the same with a buy-out (save about 600k).

Better option is to bench him for the year, same cost, and he'd beg to be traded before the Christmas freeze ...

But that's just not something a team would do.

MLSE better do it if Mitch doesn't waive.
11Mil to retool is needed.

Alot of other teams would love a 100 point assist machine, Playoff performance be damned...

Plus, Marner likes the spotlight and has an ego... He should be socially aware that he is basically run out of Toronto as a Maple Leaf.

City won't take this team back if Mitch is on it

Noone will disagree other than Mitchs dad

 

[sxvnert]

Yes and who's going to pay his bonus
In his defense he's being individually blamed for the collective failure of the entire team.

Bound to happen when you make 11m.

Utah would be a great team to move him to. They want to spend to the cap and make their mark + can absorb the entire cap hit.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There are some positives for da new mgmt team .. Boosh Ed Benoit and McCabe are 4 guys who can play post season hockey .. we only need a 1D and another big tough D and we got a D core for once .. between Woll and Hildeby we may have a tender who can handle playoff hockey .. and we have maybe 75% of our forward group here .. with a defensive minded coach who does not care about possession hockey who can get guys to buy into a grind game for a season we will have a much better chance to manage for a full 60 minutes in playoffs .. we got Willy and Matty to provide da required skill .. Mitch and JT ideally help us get da missing pieces .. hopefully Minten and Cowan with Holmberg and Knies and McCann and Dewar can inject some youthful life into season .. to me i would trade Robertson now because he is not a playoff type player - too small too slow and too easily controlled like Mitch .. much rather have Reavo policing a game with gregor to replace when required .. sign back Domi and Bert .. kampf and jankrok are ok too but could be replaced

Domi Matty Bert
Knies Cowan Willy
McCann Holmberg Minten/Jankrok
Dewar Kampf Reavo/Gregor
(keep 14 forwards to see how Cowan and Minten pan out)

Marner JT and Robertson traded and/or LTIRed

On D

new 1D (from Marner trade)
Benoit Boosh McCabe and Ed
Sign Lily to a 1 year cheap make or break year and if it doesn't pan out trade him at TDL or trade him now for a 1st rounder whatever

Rielly should get us a no 1 pick from a lottery team and draft Sam Dickinson to be future 1D
Marner should get us a no 1 D at lower CAP hit

Woll Hilde by Jones

Get a coach who demands a grinding style game from everyone to prepare team for playoff hockey like Q

A ton to do but this is da overall plan which is required .. if Mitch does not play ball then fine we sit him at home for season til he realizes it may kill his hockey career .. if JT does not want to get hurt and go LTIR then same program for him .. this is where da new prez needs to be tough .. Shanny can't do it .. too many family problems for him to act in teams best interest .. blood runs deeper than team .. sad but true

Thinking we're going to get a new 1D for Marner is a pipe dream and there's zero chance Rielly will be asked to waive his NMC.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

His Cap Hit is the same with a buy-out (save about 600k).

Better option is to bench him for the year, same cost, and he'd beg to be traded before the Christmas freeze ...

But that's just not something a team would do.

This is why it takes stones to manage a team in its best interests .. there are tough calls to make .. not for most people .. and it may be beyond our corporate owners too .. i really hope someone buys out Bell and Rogers TBH .. issue is only a couple guys who can swing it -- Thomson and maybe fidani who plays at my golf club .. i am playing with him in a couple weeks and we will talk .. but it needs to be a Leaf fan .. Ken was but i hear David may be but Peter isn't .. not ideal as Larry can't swing it himself although he wanted to .. but Larry could broker a deal and it would be easiest with David for sure as it is still pocket money to him

 

[TheGreatOne11]

For me, it's already written in stone that Marner is being traded.

Nylander and Matthews both produced more WHILE both being injured and or sick. That's pathetic Mitch.

It's the same old song and dance every year, great in regular season and becomes a ghost every post season.

I don't doubt he could find the perfect fit somewhere else, maybe with a big power forward who can help him gain that extra .4 seconds he needs to make magic comes the playoffs, but our team just doesn't have that guy for him.

It's time for a change, and a different allocation of cap space and Mitch is 100% the scapegoat here, but from his own play.

Nylander and Matthews are the teams star forwards, Mitch needs to go for D and Tavares cap can hopefully secure us some great complimentary players and or a star goalie.

But goodbye Mitch, I loved you when you were drafted, you had some great regular season, but Leafs Nation deserves a cup and you do not have that dog in you.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If he isn't open to it then I would rather buyout vs paying another team to take on the entire contract (marleau style).

Obviously a PLD style trade would be the optimal solution but given how petty Marner and co have been so far I fully expect him to stick to the leafs in every way possible.

Letting this shit show drag on another year is not an option.

I still don't understand what buying him out accomplishes. Buying him out still gives the leafs a 10.4 mil cap hit. I would prefer 90 points from Marner at 10.9 than 0 points from Marner at 10.4