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Player Discussion Mitch Marner

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Mess said:
In Marner's case his NMC terms on leaving Toronto are, when Hell freezes over and Pigs fly, :wg:
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Treliving at the end of season exit meeting with Marner, tells Marner give me 10 teams OR you will be playing with Kampf and Reaves next season on defensive assignments in order to tank your contract value.

If you are Marner, what do you do...you give him 10 teams.
 
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A1LeafNation said:
Treliving at the end of season exit meeting with Marner, tells Marner give me 10 teams OR you will be playing with Kampf and Reaves next season on defensive assignments in order to tank your contract value.

If you are Marner, what do you do...you give him 10 teams.
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You laugh and wish him a nice summer.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
That was Hunter's draft.
But I do agree that not drafting Carlo hurts. I mean he is only 6'4, 205, plays physical and shoot right hand. Think Franson was the only RHD we had at that time. Or did Lou traded for Polak already.
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A lot of what ifs from those early rebuild years. But every team has those.
 
I'd like to see him play better. He needs to find a way to put some important points on the board. I don't care how.

Their PP blows in the BOS series, so if he can find a way to contribute there, that would fix two problems.

They're better special teams and a strong performance from a star player away from being all tied up.
 
A1LeafNation said:
Treliving at the end of season exit meeting with Marner, tells Marner give me 10 teams OR you will be playing with Kampf and Reaves next season on defensive assignments in order to tank your contract value.

If you are Marner, what do you do...you give him 10 teams.
Click to expand...
  1. Strong arm him
  2. Piss him and his agent off
  3. His agent now tells all his clients
  4. His agent also tells other agents
  5. Congrats - your org now has a reputation of not knowing how to treat people properly.
Take the emotion out of it for a second - if you're a free agent (Brett Pesce, for example), and the Leafs approach you with an offer to sign here, and you've caught wind that the organization is really poor at treating players who are having a hard time, what decision do you think that free agent is going to make?
 
When our power play was at 20% or higher
Mitch was playing the right point and operating off the right wall
Now he is playing down low in the left corner and it is unsuccessful
They are too intent on him feeding matthews for a one timer. Mitch is great at finding matthews when matthews gets a three or four foot separation from the defender, matthews doesn’t score a lot from his slap shot his elite talent is how quick and accurate he gets hits shot away
When he creates the space.
 
Hey if Marner is cancelling out pasta then hes doing his job. I'll take that trade all day
 
A1LeafNation said:
Treliving at the end of season exit meeting with Marner, tells Marner give me 10 teams OR you will be playing with Kampf and Reaves next season on defensive assignments in order to tank your contract value.

If you are Marner, what do you do...you give him 10 teams.
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No if your marner you make sure reaves and kampf have career years just like bozak Jvr kadri JT
No manager in his right mind threatens a star player like that the manager would lose all credibility with the team
You make a decision what you can pay him and if that is not agreeable you let him walk to free agency and you then decide who to sign with his cap hit.
 
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Tak7 said:
  1. Strong arm him
  2. Piss him and his agent off
  3. His agent now tells all his clients
  4. His agent also tells other agents
  5. Congrats - your org now has a reputation of not knowing how to treat people properly.
Take the emotion out of it for a second - if you're a free agent (Brett Pesce, for example), and the Leafs approach you with an offer to sign here, and you've caught wind that the organization is really poor at treating players who are having a hard time, what decision do you think that free agent is going to make?
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Yes there will be players who will sign here. Leafs gave him everything. He does the Leafs a favor or run him out of town.
 
A1LeafNation said:
Then Treliving can do the same if he has any balls. Leafs will be fine with him on the 4th line. And can use 11m next summer.
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They got absolutely mauled by Willie so I can't see how they suddenly acquire the spine to be strong in contract negotiations with Mitch. Unless the Nylander capitulation was on Shanahan then I think we can expect Tre to get rag dolled again. Remember they considered dealing Nylander but couldn't get a defenseman back who justified the move and they would have known early on that trading WN would have meant a $10M+ cap savings. "We have a star, need a star back" because the Shanaplan was to win with these guys and if they trade one that deal has to be a win too.

Trying to bully Marner into taking a trade doesn't seem like something that could be in their playbook. It could be toxic for the team unless the guy is secretly hated. Even with Shanahan gone, the movable one has already been resigned and the next Pres isn't going to do a risky power play move that may devalue a player who is already going to be difficult to trade. And walk for nothing isn't something they would allow. The only way Marner moves is if he has another team that works for him. 100pt teams don't do blowup changes and players don't demand NM in their final year to give the leverage back to the team.
 
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m1ker said:
Hey if Marner is cancelling out pasta then hes doing his job. I'll take that trade all day
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This is also a good take. If Marner cancels out Pasta it will be up to Matthews (and maybe Nylander) to out match the remaining Bruins firepower.
 
nuck said:
They got absolutely mauled by Willie so I can't see how they suddenly acquire the spine to be strong in contract negotiations with Mitch. Unless the Nylander capitulation was on Shanahan then I think we can expect Tre to get rag dolled again. Remember they considered dealing Nylander but couldn't get a defenseman back who justified the move and they would have known early on that trading WN would have meant a $10M+ cap savings. "We have a star, need a star back" because the Shanaplan was to win with these guys and if they trade one that deal has to be a win too.

Trying to bully Marner into taking a trade doesn't seem like something that could be in their playbook. It could be toxic for the team unless the guy is secretly hated. Even with Shanahan gone, the movable one has already been resigned and the next Pres isn't going to do a risky power play move that may devalue a player who is already going to be difficult to trade. And walk for nothing isn't something they would allow. The only way Marner moves is if he has another team that works for him. 100pt teams don't do blowup changes and players don't demand NM in their final year to give the leverage back to the team.
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Nylander was on a Guy Lafleur Le Blond Demon style superstar breakout tour with historic production unmatched by any Big 4 player (120 point pace approaching Gilmour’s franchise record up until January) whereas Mitch has had some up and downs this season and injury trouble. So I think the Marner camp has weaker pressure points to work with. Plus he’s historically been very well paid so it’s not like his relative raise can be a big ask.
 
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m1ker said:
Hey if Marner is cancelling out pasta then hes doing his job. I'll take that trade all day
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It's a good tradeoff for sure but he should also bring way more to both the PP and PK.

He looks very off to me. A lot of fumbled pucks, failed clearing attempts, forced passes, etc. I thought he looked a lot better after his assist but still not up to his usual self.
 
Stephen said:
A lot of what ifs from those early rebuild years. But every team has those.
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I agree, thats why no point saying we could had Aho bc there is no way they are getting another winger/C who is on the small size when they already got MM at No.4.

My point had more to do with Dermott over Carlo. Two Dmen, both can play physical, have size and can skate, one more physical and bigger, the other better skate, the coin flip should be handiness since Babs stressed he wants RH and LH pairings. At that time, Leafs already have Reilly and Jake as young LHD, with no young RHD, why pick Dermott over Carlo?
 
Stephen said:
This is also a good take. If Marner cancels out Pasta it will be up to Matthews (and maybe Nylander) to out match the remaining Bruins firepower.
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m1ker said:
Hey if Marner is cancelling out pasta then hes doing his job. I'll take that trade all day
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Just want to point out that 5vs5 Pastrnak has played 22 Mins with Marner on the ice and 19 mins away.

Pastrnaks CF% with Marner = 56%
Pastrnaks CF% away from Marner = 40%

Pastrnak FF% with Marner = 51%
Pastrnak FF% away from Marner = 31%

Kampf has been on the ice for 10 mins with Pastrnak, and Pastrnaks advanced stats are worse across the board vs Kampf then they are vs Marner.

Pastrnaks CF% with Kampf = 41%
Pastrnaks CF% away from Kampf = 52%

Pastrnak FF% with Kampf = 20%
Pastrnak FF% awqy from Kampf= 46%

In general Pasta has not been great vs any leaf line. The advanced stats don't indicate that Marner has done anything shutting down more than any other player. In fact, Pastas advanced stats are generally better vs Marner than others. However these samples are low.
 
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A1LeafNation said:
Treliving at the end of season exit meeting with Marner, tells Marner give me 10 teams OR you will be playing with Kampf and Reaves next season on defensive assignments in order to tank your contract value.

If you are Marner, what do you do...you give him 10 teams.
Click to expand...
is his NMC 10 "yes" teams, 10 "No" teams or only THE team I want to go to?
"NMC" players usually will be ok to move if the trade is before the start of the season. The problem is in season trade, such as Sundin's case.
 
Stephen said:
Nylander was on a Guy Lafleur Le Blond Demon style superstar breakout tour with historic production unmatched by any Big 4 player (120 point pace approaching Gilmour’s franchise record up until January) whereas Mitch has had some up and downs this season and injury trouble. So I think the Marner camp has weaker pressure points to work with. Plus he’s historically been very well paid so it’s not like his relative raise can be a big ask.
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I would say Willie was a lot more like Gaudreau, Huberdeau, Kadri in that he had no history of this level of production so his return to norm was almost guaranteed and when it happened it was like hitting a wall. In terms of being repeatable, doing it at 27 is not at all the same as doing it at 22-23 and the drop off fits with a typical hot half season for a lot of players. A player getting compensated like this for a mid career 50 game spike is like a lottery win. Good for Willie but you would think since Kadri and Huberdeau actually happened to Treliving he would have had a clue.

Marner had ups and downs but players don't give discounts for an injured season, especially when he was still on a 100 pt pace. I can't disagree that Mitch has way less leverage relative to his current salary but we know these guys use internal comps and his resume is three years of a 100 point clip so he will be trying to use Willie as his starting point. I am just guessing like you, but I don't expect him to be thinking team friendly or looking at legit external comparisons when the other two just hit home runs and I don't see Tre as any better of a negotiator than KD so it could be a rough one.
 
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nuck said:
They got absolutely mauled by Willie so I can't see how they suddenly acquire the spine to be strong in contract negotiations with Mitch. Unless the Nylander capitulation was on Shanahan then I think we can expect Tre to get rag dolled again. Remember they considered dealing Nylander but couldn't get a defenseman back who justified the move and they would have known early on that trading WN would have meant a $10M+ cap savings. "We have a star, need a star back" because the Shanaplan was to win with these guys and if they trade one that deal has to be a win too.

Trying to bully Marner into taking a trade doesn't seem like something that could be in their playbook. It could be toxic for the team unless the guy is secretly hated. Even with Shanahan gone, the movable one has already been resigned and the next Pres isn't going to do a risky power play move that may devalue a player who is already going to be difficult to trade. And walk for nothing isn't something they would allow. The only way Marner moves is if he has another team that works for him. 100pt teams don't do blowup changes and players don't demand NM in their final year to give the leverage back to the team.
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Plan A strong arm him into a trade. We know this may not work.

Plan B is we/they have to be okay letting him walk. Leafs can't afford to be paying a guy 11m for him to average 1 goal a series....if winning is the goal.
 
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Tak7 said:
  1. Strong arm him
  2. Piss him and his agent off
  3. His agent now tells all his clients
  4. His agent also tells other agents
  5. Congrats - your org now has a reputation of not knowing how to treat people properly.
Take the emotion out of it for a second - if you're a free agent (Brett Pesce, for example), and the Leafs approach you with an offer to sign here, and you've caught wind that the organization is really poor at treating players who are having a hard time, what decision do you think that free agent is going to make?
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Nonsense take. Marner ain't pulling his weight, and he wants to get paid even more. I highly doubt any players respect that.
 
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