Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Stephen]

He seems to be completely over the media and even some of the fanbase who are critical of him. I can honestly see him working with the Leafs at potential trade destinations knowing the 8th year comes into play.

He certainly doesn't appear to be happy playing here anymore.

The relationship probably should have run its course back in 2021 but with an additional few years I think everyone’s clear eyed about any potential breakup.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah I'd really like to think that the injury is the problem but he looked pretty agile when jumping out of McAvoy's way to avoid contact. Also some of his decisions have just been bad which has nothing to do with anything physical. But still, I say wait until the playoffs are over before making any decisions, there's still time to turn this thing around both for him and the team.

Like I’ve said in the past. I think we’re all better off if the Leafs come up story in the playoffs is uncoupled from Marner’s own story of personal growth. Like just win this series. Win the next one, go on a run and get some key and unlikely contributions from whomever. Let Mitch do his thing while he’s here but don’t put all the franchises hopes on his shoulders.

 

[DarkKnight]

Marner can’t play the injury card because his playoff game tape more or less looks like this. Fancy footwork instead of hard north south skating, fancy dekes to the perimeter instead of making quick hard, decisive plays with the puck to the inside. Fade away low percentage shots from safety.

I don't give the injury card any credence, his ankle isn't causing him to curl away and stay on the perimeter. He hasn't been as bad as people here are arguing, it's mindless hatred, but he's been anything but impressive and effective by any standard.

 

[Peasy]

The incremental raise from $10.916 million whatever to $12 million is only about a million bucks, but seems to cover the full range of symbolic importance here.

First of all he shouldn’t be at $11 million to begin with. And $11.5 million is where Pastrnak and Nylander sit. At $12 million, the percentage raise isn’t that much in real money from what he makes, so it’s technically very doable, but symbolically feels like the straw that breaks the camels back.

Like why would you be entitled to an overpay on an historical overpay while giving us 8 years of playoff underachievement, and you’re not particularly popular to begin with?

Mitch could win so many hearts and minds if he just stayed at his current cap hit. (Even though it’s extremely generous already).

Mitch had such a favourable first contract its insane. Like look at what hes making compared to Rantanen, a much better and proven player in the playoffs. I would straight up tell him in negotiations that hes been overpaid for essentially this entire contract, there is no way I'm giving you a raise. And if he doesnt like it, he can kick rocks.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't give the injury card any credence, his ankle isn't causing him to curl away and stay on the perimeter. He hasn't been as bad as people here are arguing, it's mindless hatred, but he's been anything but impressive and effective by any standard.

That’s where I am at too.

He was horrible in Game 1, bc it seemed like he couldn’t skate with the puckZ
Better in Game 2, but still underwhelming and had shifts that just bad.
Solid in Game 3.
However, being solid is just not good enough. He needs to be much better than just being solid.

Really hope he will take over games like he can.

 

[Duffman955]

He's been bad this season. Exceptionally terrible since the injury

Borderline u playable in the playoffs

 

[LeafsFan89]

Stranger things have happened but I just find it hard to visualize a guy like Marner being able to command the moon and the stars on his next deal in Toronto.

If we gave him the exact same deal as now, it would be a not great deal for the team, continuity of a relationship and terms a lot of Leaf Land is not happy with, but hey, cap going up.

If we gave him Nylander Pasta money, it’s an undeserved but modest raise.

When he starts creeping into the $12 million neighborhood towards Mackinnon money you’re just scratching your head like why do we even need to call back?

To be honest, I want both him and JT to walk (or moved before hand despite the NMC clauses).

I feel like the Leafs will do the following - Sign Marner to 11-12.5M x 7-8 years; bring back JT for 4-6M x 2-4 years.

This team needs a change in identity, culture, and play style. There is only so much swapping the bottom 6 can do every year. The PP has sucked every playoffs in the last 8 years. Our "stars" don't show up in the playoffs and dominate like they're paid to do.

I would rather take that money and use it on D, goalie, or some combination thereof.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

We'll either lose Marner for nothing or significantly overpay him. He and his family see himself as well near Matthews equal. If Matthews got 13.5x4 there is NO WAY Marner signs for something like 12x8. At 8 years he'll demand a higher aav than Matthews. And he'll walk if he doesn't get it. Even if just to prove a point. Leafs get shafted either way. Marner needed to be traded after last playoffs before his ntc kicked in. But the whole Dubas/Shanahan drama occurred at this absolute pivotal moment and Treliving didn't have time to clean it all up. Did he even have a month?

I've been screaming since the Columbus series humiliation that either Nylander or Marner needed to be traded for D and/or goaltending. If they demanded such overpayments when they had literally ZERO leverage as rfa's, just imagine what they'll do as ufa's. We won't be able to afford all the big 3 on ufa contracts because they'll all demand to be significantly overpaid in relation to direct comparables. So far that is absolutely true regarding both Matthews (when term is considered) and Nylander.

 

[IPS]

You know I'll go out on a limb and say these next 2 games are probably the most pivotal of Marner's career as a Maple Leaf.

If he keeps playing like this en route to the Leafs being eliminated you're insane if you don't think upper management is going to have serious conversations about him.

You'd also be insane if you don't think Marner wants to stay here and only here. Toronto is the money town if you haven't figured that out. You by default get atleast ~10% more than your direct comparables and with the sponsorship deals it's not even remotely comparable with anywhere else the money making opportunities you have outside of hockey, especially a baby face like Mitch.

Watch the team these past 3 games, literally everyone but Marner has bought in to the grit and physicality game plan, he sticks out like a sore thumb with how much he avoids contact relative to his teammates. You can't expect this special treatment and not expect things to go sour with the rest of the teammates, they're not gonna pay the price out there in the playoffs while Mitch plays like he's afraid to break a nail.

 

[ULF_55]

You know I'll go out on a limb and say these next 2 games are probably the most pivotal of Marner's career as a Maple Leaf.

If he keeps playing like this en route to the Leafs being eliminated you're insane if you don't think upper management is going to have serious conversations about him.

You'd also be insane if you don't think Marner wants to stay here and only here. Toronto is the money town if you haven't figured that out. You by default get atleast ~10% more than your direct comparables and with the sponsorship deals it's not even remotely comparable with anywhere else the money making opportunities you have outside of hockey, especially a baby face like Mitch.

Watch the team these past 3 games, literally everyone but Marner has bought in to the grit and physicality game plan, he sticks out like a sore thumb with how much he avoids contact relative to his teammates. You can't expect this special treatment and not expect things to go sour with the rest of the teammates, they're not gonna pay the price out there in the playoffs while Mitch plays like he's afraid to break a nail.

Perhaps missing Nylander out there.

Covering 3 "stars" is tougher than covering 2.

And yes, he is perhaps where Liljegren has been, trying to come back from high ankle sprain. Can't really give Liljegren the benefit of the doubt wrt high ankle sprain recovery and not give it to Mitch.

Okay, yes, not everyone will give Liljegren any benefit of doubt ... ;-)

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The incremental raise from $10.916 million whatever to $12 million is only about a million bucks, but seems to cover the full range of symbolic importance here.

First of all he shouldn’t be at $11 million to begin with. And $11.5 million is where Pastrnak and Nylander sit. At $12 million, the percentage raise isn’t that much in real money from what he makes, so it’s technically very doable, but symbolically feels like the straw that breaks the camels back.

Like why would you be entitled to an overpay on an historical overpay while giving us 8 years of playoff underachievement, and you’re not particularly popular to begin with?

Mitch could win so many hearts and minds if he just stayed at his current cap hit. (Even though it’s extremely generous already).

It's like you wrote exactly what I'm thinking. Good stuff man

 

[HellasLEAF]

Unfortunately, the regular season and the playoffs have nothing to do with each other. Dubas was useless in terms of building a Stanley Cup contender. He was enamored with speed, skating ability, goals, style and probably guys he could hang with.. He had no interest in finding guys with heart and determination. He got players that checked all his boxes and this is what we are left with. Treliving is trying to undo that situation which, unfortunately, takes time. Nothing will happen until that corp(se) is buried and gone. Until then, enjoy a Maurice Ricahrd winner and a 100 + point regular season. After that, we got nothing.

When he passed on Konecny, you could tell right then and there this guy was too smart for his own good. Even in the 2nd round of that draft, he grabbed the typical small/skilled guys like Dermott and Bracco. Aho and Carlo were available. I mean look at the different Brendan Carlo has made in Boston. Dubas flat out was just not experienced enough for TML he had no business in that role that early clearly.

 

[Antropovsky]

Speed, size, grit, heart, fearlessness is so important come playoffs. He has none of these. Tavares doesn't either but at least Tavares has some size and will go to the dangerous areas...if he didn't he'd be as ineffective as Marner. Marner doesn't even have a dangerous shot!

I don't know how we can offer him more than 7-8 million.... based on the 8 years he has in the postseason.

 

[Jojalu]

Most of these folks are good people but they dont understand .. they dony know that pauls sole job was to take mitch to hockey every night and tape his games and practices to help him get better .. bonnie wears da pants and is a hard avg wage earner .. they dont know mitch only played because of sponsorships of infividuald and teams.. mitch only wanted to help his family out of poverty and he succeeded .. good on him .. how many people on here can look at themsleves on mirror and say same

Which is very noble.

An eight million per year contract would have done the same thing

 

[ToneDog]

We'll either lose Marner for nothing or significantly overpay him. He and his family see himself as well near Matthews equal. If Matthews got 13.5x4 there is NO WAY Marner signs for something like 12x8. At 8 years he'll demand a higher aav than Matthews. And he'll walk if he doesn't get it. Even if just to prove a point. Leafs get shafted either way. Marner needed to be traded after last playoffs before his ntc kicked in. But the whole Dubas/Shanahan drama occurred at this absolute pivotal moment and Treliving didn't have time to clean it all up. Did he even have a month?

I've been screaming since the Columbus series humiliation that either Nylander or Marner needed to be traded for D and/or goaltending. If they demanded such overpayments when they had literally ZERO leverage as rfa's, just imagine what they'll do as ufa's. We won't be able to afford all the big 3 on ufa contracts because they'll all demand to be significantly overpaid in relation to direct comparables. So far that is absolutely true regarding both Matthews (when term is considered) and Nylander.

I'll drive him to the airport. If Leafs cave to that demand, more proof they are not serious about winning. Seriously, what is the most another team will pay this guy after watching him in the playoffs? We need to break up this core. The tail must no longer wag the dog.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Marner needs to be better. He’s making top dollar we need him to be top collar.

 

[Superstar]

We'll either lose Marner for nothing or significantly overpay him. He and his family see himself as well near Matthews equal. If Matthews got 13.5x4 there is NO WAY Marner signs for something like 12x8. At 8 years he'll demand a higher aav than Matthews. And he'll walk if he doesn't get it. Even if just to prove a point. Leafs get shafted either way. Marner needed to be traded after last playoffs before his ntc kicked in. But the whole Dubas/Shanahan drama occurred at this absolute pivotal moment and Treliving didn't have time to clean it all up. Did he even have a month?

I've been screaming since the Columbus series humiliation that either Nylander or Marner needed to be traded for D and/or goaltending. If they demanded such overpayments when they had literally ZERO leverage as rfa's, just imagine what they'll do as ufa's. We won't be able to afford all the big 3 on ufa contracts because they'll all demand to be significantly overpaid in relation to direct comparables. So far that is absolutely true regarding both Matthews (when term is considered) and Nylander.

Marner won't be asking for 12 x 8...more like 11.93 x 8 as a homage to his idol...

 

[ULF_55]

Mitch could win so many hearts and minds if he just stayed at his current cap hit. (Even though it’s extremely generous already).

He'd win hearts if he took Nylander's deal.

Can you imagine if he took a dollar less?

That would generate so much traffic here ...

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

It really doesn't matter how much or how little of a raise Marner receives. 8 years of data is a huge sample size. We've seen more than enough

 

[thewave]

It really doesn't matter how much or how little of a raise Marner receives. 8 years of data is a huge sample size. We've seen more than enough

What you pay him?

 

[TorMapleJays]

8 years 9 million. I still feel like that is a win for this player.

Tavares I take back. He’s not the problem, and has scored some very big goals.

His contract is. 4-5 million I take that all day.

Toronto is better this year (playoffs) than in years past and that’s with 1 year of Trev.

 

[TMLegend]

That’s where I am at too.

He was horrible in Game 1, bc it seemed like he couldn’t skate with the puckZ
Better in Game 2, but still underwhelming and had shifts that just bad.
Solid in Game 3.
However, being solid is just not good enough. He needs to be much better than just being solid.

Really hope he will take over games like he can.

I don't think he's been solid at all. Only difference last night was he got on the score sheet with an assist but he was still the same Mitch turning the puck over under pressure and making bad decisions all over the ice.

I don't even care about the points. Just play a safe, responsible game and limit the turnovers. He can't even do that right now. He's a straight up liability out there most shifts.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

What you pay him?

That'll be up to his new team.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

What you pay him?

I wouldn't offer him an extension if we flame out again honestly. Prioritize a trade as best you can and if not play out the final year.

I don't see a compelling reason to pay outrageous contracts to a mix of players who can't win together. The way I see it is it would be the greater evil to continue icing the same core with more and more sunk cap.

We haven't been progressing. The only thing escalating is the salary.

If we go to the conference finals this year I'd be overjoyed and I'd change my tune likely. It's not an insane ask to make the top 4 one time in 8 years with four 11M players

 

[Eternal Leaf]

8 years 9 million. I still feel like that is a win for this player.

Tavares I take back. He’s not the problem, and has scored some very big goals.

His contract is. 4-5 million I take that all day.

Toronto is better this year (playoffs) than in years past and that’s with 1 year of Trev.

They need a change.

Both players should be gone regardless of the cost. The mix is wrong and that's why they keep losing. All of these players look good separately but don't work as a unit and it's proven across several years now.

Marner doesn't even look good separately nor is he worth 9M in the playoffs.