Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Legion34]

Marner is a weasel but Matthews the guy who’s getting max AAV on the shortest term is Jesus Christ reincarnated!! Gotcha LOL, what a joke.

See I don’t mind the Matthews term because I think he won’t age well.

 

[arso40]

No there were many games Matthews played with Hyman and brown. I went to about 4 that year. He was with them for quite a few

Yeah maybe during Willy’s demotion cause marner wasn’t the only one who hit the fourth line

 

[Legion34]

They were the top line of a basement team in their primes, but were not the top line on any team Marner was a part of. You might not like it. But it's true.

Matthews also getting garbage treatment doesn't change Marner's garbage treatment, and Matthews at least had Nylander for the majority of those two years.

Yes. Because Marner couldn’t make the leafs top line the best. Because he wasn’t Matthews.

 

[notDatsyuk]

In order of playoff importance when the series is on the line this is my pecking order.

Nylander
Tavares
Matthews
Marner

JT benefits from playing with Willy, so I'd have him or a par with Matty.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes. Because Marner couldn’t make the leafs top line the best.

Marner was never put on the top line.

 

[Divine]

No, they're not. Draisaitl is not a pending UFA. He re-signed last offseason.

That's what you're doing. Using a future cap that didn't exist when Draisaitl signed to pretend that Draisaitl signed for less than he did.

This one.

Last offseason? Draisaitl signed on Sept. 3rd 2024.

The seasons in NHL terms are July 1st - June 30th.

Marner and Draisaitl would sign in the same season:

July 1 2024 - June 30, 2025 is considered the same season.

It's some creative semantics to claim they're a different season. Draisaitl was a pending UFA before he re-signed so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Unless you're implying Marner would re-sign after July 1st, in which case he will not get an 8 year deal which is best for everyone not named Mitch Marner - regardless of what team signs him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Two huge mistakes. Should we make a third mistake and pay Marner $13-14m ?

Willie is second in goal scoring though but the only time he was worth $11.5m was in the 39 games he dominated before he signed. Sadly we don't see enough of that guy.

Both career and last 5 seasons Willy is second on the team in both goals and assists, both overall and at ES.

League wide over the last 5 seasons he is 12th in goals, 20th in assists, and 15th in points, while being the only second line player (Draisaitl a possible exception).

Not worth $11.5? Quite likely, but less overpaid than Matthews at $13.25 or Marner even at $10.9.

 

[thewave]

No, they're not. Draisaitl is not a pending UFA. He re-signed last offseason.

That's what you're doing. Using a future cap that didn't exist when Draisaitl signed to pretend that Draisaitl signed for less than he did.

This one.

Marner and Drai are on the same contract years. What are you trying to do here? Gaslight people?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Last offseason? Draisaitl signed on Sept. 3rd 2024

Which is part of last offseason. This season hadn't started yet. Nothing had changed yet. It's really misleading to pretend that signing in two different offseasons with different information is the same thing.

Draisaitl was a pending UFA before he re-signed so I have no idea what you're talking about.

And now he's not a pending UFA... Because he signed last offseason.

Marner and Drai are on the same contract years.

That doesn't matter. They're not signing at the same time with the same information.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well if he refused a trade there, why would he sign there a couple of months later. Pathetic he couldn’t read the tea leaves and just move on. Carolina has just as small of a shot going deep in the playoffs as we do. Giving up the 8 year deal option as well, a pathetic decision.

I can see the logic - going as a free agent means the team will be stronger by the good player they don't give in the trade.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's a good teammate, that would be a selfish move.
Why would he want to leave his teammates in the middle of the season?

Not sure what 'tea leaves' you read but everything we know to date is the team wants him to stay and he wants to stay.

Wouldn't a more selfish move by waiting to sign as a free agent so his new team doesn't lose a player in a trade?

 

[notDatsyuk]

The team never asked him to move, Carolina asked if he was available so they checked on his thoughts.

So they asked him if he was willing to move rather than asking him to move?

 

[Dreakmur]

We won't know that until he signs.

You don’t ask that unless there’s a damn good reason.

 

[Divine]

Which is part of last offseason. This season hadn't started yet. Nothing had changed yet. It's really misleading to pretend that signing in two different offseasons with different information is the same thing.

And now he's not a pending UFA... Because he signed last offseason.

That doesn't matter. They're not signing at the same time with the same information.

How is it two different offseasons?

Like I said, you're making up your own definition of seasons.

The CBA designates a season from July 1st - June 30th. Anything in that range is the same season. You can make up whatever you want, you can call every day a new season - it just don't make it true. There's a reason Marner cannot sign with another team until July 1st, because the Leafs own his rights until June 30th - even if you personally define it as a new season because the NHL doesn't.

If Marner signs on or after July 1st, then it's different offseason. However, Marner cannot sign for 8 years if he signs on July 1st or later... and hopefully he signs with another team.

 

[Menzinger]

Report: Hurricanes expected to pursue Marner if he hits free agency

https://thescore.com/nhl/news/3244488

The Leafs will likely offer him more bonus money on year 1 of their offer than he'd get over 7 years from the Canes.

At the moment I'd say it's probably close to 50-50 that he leaves July 1, but if he does leave he's going to likely have to sacrifice some his asks to sign with another team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How is it two different offseasons?

An offseason stretches from when a team's season ends to when the next one begins. That's why it's called an offseason. You can't equate signings in two different offseasons using different information.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A big question is how much does Marner care about his legacy? Unless the team breaks through this spring (a megahugemassive if obviously), if he leaves now after 9 years, he'll always be known in his home town, the capital of the hockey world, as the guy who was assistant captain of a team that will be remembered as the biggest playoff failures in team history, and one of the biggest (if not the biggest) playoff failures in NHL history.

Or he could stay, and if he helps turn things around and go on even one deep playoff run, most fans will forget all the playoff losses, and he will compile enough points to own multiple all-time Leaf records and of course take his place on legends row.

If he believes there's even a small chance that this team can go deep, then staying is the obvious choice, because the upside is just so humungous, he still has a chance to make all his childhood dreams come true. Take a ton of money, plus millions in endorsements that he won't get anywhere else, and have a chance to be a hero in capital of the hockey world forever, also not possible anywhere else. And if he does have success, those endorsement dollars will keep rolling in as long as he lives, most likely that means tens millions more in his pocket so leaving would be an incredibly stupid move financially speaking. So why would he leave? Who would leave and leave that possible upside on the table?

The worlds biggest wuss, that's who. If he leaves, that sends the message that he doesn't think he has any chance of winning here so he just gives up, says "no mas", and goes down as the biggest wuss in team history, maybe even the biggest wuss in NHL history.

 

[BraveCanadian]

You don’t ask him to waive his no trade clause without wanting to move him.

Pretty terrible asset management though.. talk about tipping your cards when you’ve got nothing in your hand

 

[Sundinisagod]

Pretty terrible asset management though.. talk about tipping your cards when you’ve got nothing in your hand

Not sure what you’re saying here???

Rantanen is nothing?

 

[francis246]

JVR bozak kessel was the top line for years.

You might not like it. But it’s true. Unless superstar Marner wasn’t even kessel.

Many players don’t get the version of the top line and 2 1000 game vets and PP1 time.

Matthews got saddled with 2 rookies the whole time. And one of them was Connor brown.


If marner was a Matthews talent his line would have been the first line. I like Marner but he’s not Matthews.

Wasn’t Matthews the first overall pick? Isn’t he supposed to be elevating his linemates? Like every other #1 center before him.

Why were Crosby, McDavid and Tavares able to make their linemates so much money?

Hell even a guy like Eric Staal propped up many wingers and got them paid.

 

[Legion34]

An offseason stretches from when a team's season ends to when the next one begins. That's why it's called an offseason. You can't equate signings in two different offseasons using different

This is not true. The NHL calendar year is from July 1-June 30.

The offseason has no bearing on contracts. Drai signed in the 2024-2025 season. So would Marner. It would be the same in all contract law and the CBA.

You are still a part of the team and under contract in the offseason. It’s the exact same.

And in your world. The minimum the cap would go up was 2.5. So comparing Drai to the 88.5 cap is wrong. Even In your logic.

Marner was never put on the top line.

He was put on the leafs top line forever.
He was not put on the top line, because tht was Matthews line.

Wasn’t Matthews the first overall pick? Isn’t he supposed to be elevating his linemates? Like every other #1 center before him.

Why were Crosby, McDavid and Tavares able to make their linemates so much money?

Hell even a guy like Eric Staal propped up many wingers and got them paid.

??? He did. Look at Connor brown.
The point is and has been that Auston Matthews is the leafs best player.

Marner was not on the “top line” in his ELC because he wasn’t on Matthews line.

No matter who Auston was with. That was the top line. If Matt Martin was there he would be getting a promotion.

When Marner played with Martin it was a demotion.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is not true. The NHL calendar year




??? He did. Look at Connor brown.
The point is and has been that Auston Matthews is the leafs best player.

Marner was not on the “top line” in his ELC because he wasn’t on Matthews line.

No matter who Auston was with. That was the top line. If Matt Martin was there he would be getting a promotion.

When Marner played with Martin it was a demotion.

IIRC Marner played his best playoff hockey with Martin. Maybe he needs a big brother/protector type looking after him, he hasn't been the same since Martin left.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Not sure what you’re saying here???

Rantanen is nothing?

Oh, is Rantanen with the Leafs now? I missed that.

No, Treliving tipped his hand that they would consider moving on from an unsigned Marner for a signed Rantenan but with the full NMC he is giving that away with the possibility of souring things and ending up with nothing.

This isn’t super complicated. It was not a smart move.

 

[francis246]

This is not true. The NHL calendar year is from July 1-June 30.

The offseason has no bearing on contracts. Drai signed in the 2024-2025 season. So would Marner. It would be the same in all contract law and the CBA.

You are still a part of the team and under contract in the offseason. It’s the exact same.

And in your world. The minimum the cap would go up was 2.5. So comparing Drai to the 88.5 cap is wrong. Even In your logic.


He was put on the leafs top line forever.
He was not put on the top line, because tht was Matthews line.




??? He did. Look at Connor brown.
The point is and has been that Auston Matthews is the leafs best player.

Marner was not on the “top line” in his ELC because he wasn’t on Matthews line.

No matter who Auston was with. That was the top line. If Matt Martin was there he would be getting a promotion.

When Marner played with Martin it was a demotion.

Okay, then what are you honestly complaining about then? Having 3 pages worth of that nonsense is insane.

This whole demotion and promotion shit on HF boards is so stupid and it just shows who’s actually played sports at a high level and who hasn’t IMO. It’s an elementary school argument. Who cares at the end of the day? Matchups mainly dictate minutes in hockey and that was Babcocks whole thing, matchups and ensuring he could roll different lines and spread out the offense. Honestly I watched every game of the Babcock era and was in the building quite a bit, the top lined changed based on whoever we were playing. Some nights it was the Bozak line, some nights it was Auston’s line and some night it was the Kadri/Marleau line.

Prior to Tavares coming that was one of the things we all loved about the early years of the new wave. We had 4 balanced lines and it never felt like we knew what the top lined was or cared because all the lines were exciting.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh, is Rantanen with the Leafs now? I missed that.

No, Treliving tipped his hand that they would consider moving on from an unsigned Marner for a signed Rantenan but with the full NMC he is giving that away with the possibility of souring things and ending up with nothing.

This isn’t super complicated. It was not a smart move.

Seemed all a negotiating tactic. Never should have been made public though.