Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
TheGreenTBer
Paula Deen does bath salts
- Apr 30, 2021
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Chelios I believe, and good reference. He was right. Boy oh boy was he right.
Come to think of it ...Chelios was an asshole on the ice. Could both defend and produce and he would make you PAY in the pain department. Right handed too. Anyone got a Benjamin Button Machine? Anybody? Norris-era Chelios is pretty much exactly what we need damn it.
It is true though. He is better 5v5. He is better on the PP. He is better on the PK. He produces better offensively while providing better defense. I'm not even sure on what basis you're disputing this, because you just keep making subjective statements about Rantanen.
Rantanen is a better goalscorer, but a worse playmaker by a bigger amount, and a worse defensive player. They have both elevated their games when it matters; just in different ways.
They are attributes and skills that contribute to a player's overall impact. Their value is captured in the results they achieve using those skills. They don't get bonus points on top of their results because you like certain attributes.
The issue is that you're not only ignoring everything other than playoffs, but also you've come to the conclusion that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in the playoffs by ignoring everything other than production, and then also ignoring the context behind that production and the issues with comparing production across vastly different circumstances.
You're trying to frame this as a "biased narrative" and "cherry picking which aspects matter", but you're the only one doing either. You do this every time we talk, and it makes it clear that you're not here for productive discussion about hockey. You're just looking for a fight, and somebody to misrepresent and drag through the mud.
The only thing you really provided in this discussion was the goal stats, and those weren't even correct! Did you even acknowledge your mistake? No. Did you acknowledge how misleading it was to compare a goal scorer to a playmaker based on goal stats in the first place? No. What did the person you accuse of bias and cherry picking do? Give you the correct stats for your argument that they fundamentally disagree with.
All I've done is follow the facts and try to get you to expand your evaluation beyond zero context playoff production and subjective statements pumping up Rantanen. It's clear we're too far apart.
Guided by Veseys
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2011
- 3,912
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Jesus. Marner is playing right now and you write and post this monstrosity rather than watching. What even are you?
Larcos_Unal
Registered Nurse
Craig Button
The C is for Coward - Brad Marchand 2024
Rantenan is not a Leaf and will never be a Leaf.
Get over it losers
Get over it losers
It's crazy to think that we are here.
To those who suggested trading Mitch and John after the Columbus series, it looks like it would've been the right move.
To those who suggested trading Mitch and John after the Columbus series, it looks like it would've been the right move.
Thought he had a great game tonight. Took a bad penalty but the game tonight isn’t on him. Our defensive core was honestly out to lunch tonight. If Marner can bring this level of effort to the playoffs I think we’d be happy with that.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Yeah he did play well. Colorado plays wide open and their D stinks, which helps him with time and space. If he can play this way against Florida in the playoffs, I will be impressed
That guy is just like death to any prediction. He could predict a dry day in Death Valley and there would be a f***ing monsoon.
ClarkSittler
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2014
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You're presenting your opinion as fact, but the reality isn’t as one-sided as you're making it seem. Yes, Marner is a great all-around player, but calling him ‘better’ in every situation ignores key factors. Rantanen is the superior goal scorer, he drives offense in ways Marner doesn’t, and his ability to dominate possession and create plays under pressure makes him just as impactful, especially when it matters most.
You keep insisting Marner is better in all facets, but that’s an oversimplification. Rantanen has produced at an elite level at 5v5, on the power play, and in clutch moments. His ability to score in multiple ways, use his size to protect the puck, and excel in high-pressure situations is what makes the comparison far more even than you’re willing to admit.
You're conceding that Rantanen is the better goal scorer, but downplaying how significant that is. Goal scoring is the most valuable offensive skill, and Rantanen’s ability to finish plays at an elite level makes up for any supposed gap in playmaking. And while Marner may be a better pure playmaker, it’s not by a huge margin. Rantanen still creates at an elite level while also being the more dangerous individual offensive threat.
"Exactly. Iimpact is measured by results, and Rantanen’s results speak for themselves. You can’t just dismiss certain attributes because they don’t fit your argument. His goal-scoring, size, and ability to control possession directly contribute to his success, and the fact that he consistently produces at an elite level proves their value.
You’re acting like I’m handing out ‘bonus points’ for physical tools, but in reality, those tools are what enable Rantanen to be as dominant as he is. Just because his strengths are different from Marner’s doesn’t make them any less valuable. If results are what matter, then Rantanen’s elite production—especially in high-pressure moments—should be given just as much weight as Marner’s overall game."
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm emphasizing playoffs because that’s where individual impact is magnified the most. Regular-season success matters, but the ultimate test of a player’s value is how they perform when the stakes are highest. Rantanen has consistently elevated his game in those moments, and that’s not just about raw production, it’s about how he produces, when he produces, and the impact it has on winning.
You keep saying I’m ‘ignoring context,’ but what you’re really doing is trying to discredit production when it doesn’t support your argument. If Rantanen is outproducing Marner in playoff situations, that’s not something you can just brush off as ‘different circumstances’—those circumstances are the same pressure-filled environments where the best players prove their worth. Instead of downplaying what Rantanen has done, maybe acknowledge that his ability to consistently deliver in those moments is a key reason why he's better.
If I were just looking for a fight, I wouldn’t be providing reasoned arguments backed by facts. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m ‘misrepresenting’ anything, it just means I’m challenging a perspective that I don’t think holds up under scrutiny.
You accuse me of cherry-picking, but you’re the one dismissing key aspects of Rantanen’s game while presenting Marner as superior in every category without acknowledging legitimate counterpoints. If you were truly here for a productive discussion, you’d engage with those counterpoints instead of resorting to personal attacks. If you want to debate hockey, let’s do that. But if your response to disagreement is to question my intentions, that says more about your approach to this conversation than it does about mine.
I provided more than just goal stats, I highlighted Rantanen’s overall impact, his ability to take over games, and the value of his skill set. You keep trying to reduce my argument to a single stat to make it seem like I have no case, but that’s just misrepresenting what I’ve said.
At the end of the day, if you’re going to claim Marner is objectively better in every way, then you need to acknowledge the full picture, including the areas, more of them, where Rantanen has a legitimate edge."
I’ve been presenting a balanced evaluation, not ignoring context but instead highlighting Rantanen’s consistent excellence in the playoffs, his goal-scoring ability, and overall impact. You claim to ‘follow the facts,’ but by dismissing Rantanen’s strengths in favor of your own narrative, you’re narrowing the scope of the discussion. Playoff performance matters because that’s when players truly prove their worth, and Rantanen has delivered in those moments.
It’s not about pumping up one player, it’s about acknowledging both their unique attributes. If you’re going to dismiss my points as ‘subjective’ every time they don’t fit your view, then, yes, it does seem like we’re too far apart to have a productive discussion.
colchar
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2012
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Because nothing else f***ing matters!
Bitchy Mitchy has 50 points in 57 playoff games. Mikko has 101 points in 81 playoff games. I know which one I'd rather have playing for me in the playoffs. Here's a hint, it ain't Mitch the Bitch.
colchar
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2012
- 8,033
- 1,915
He could have been, but we're stuck with Bitchy Mitchy.
I cannot wait until he walks. Addition by subtraction.
How's the free agent pool looking this summer? Time to spend some money.
Craig Button
The C is for Coward - Brad Marchand 2024
Craig Button
The C is for Coward - Brad Marchand 2024
1. No one on the Leafs would waive to go to Carolina.
2. This was leaked to the media to put pressure on Marner’s camp to sign a contract before July 1st.
3. Marner’s on the top of the List of UFAs
4. Was Rantenan rumored to sign new contract with the leafs as he was with the oilers?
5. Go to bed child
leafsfan2point0
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2011
- 2,092
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The Shadow
Registered User
- Feb 9, 2013
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There’s a reason why I blocked that guy
So did I but I don’t remember him. Maybe he changed his name. Lol
Evilhomer
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2019
- 6,713
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Points 1-3 are definitely correct. As for point 5, don't slag on going to bed. It's the best part of my day.
Bomber0104
Registered User
I hang out in Port Carling / Rousseau in the summer quite a bit. I’ve literally seen people harassing Mitch at TJ’s about hockey and things no player should ever have to deal with and it’s not a sight you want to see.
I would not be surprised to see him jet for an equal or lesser amount of money because of the toxic reaction he’s been disproportionately been receiving as a result of the team’s performance; irrespective of his own contribution to that.
This is just my opinion from what I’ve seen in person and online.
I feel bad but I also don’t based on how his team handled his last contract negotiation. When you open Pandora’s Box, this is often the trouble you run into.
He could have made his life a lot easier by simply just being a team player on the payroll side of things as much as he is on ice.
Let’s hope we can replace him with as much production as he gives us at $10.63M next year.
I would not be surprised to see him jet for an equal or lesser amount of money because of the toxic reaction he’s been disproportionately been receiving as a result of the team’s performance; irrespective of his own contribution to that.
This is just my opinion from what I’ve seen in person and online.
I feel bad but I also don’t based on how his team handled his last contract negotiation. When you open Pandora’s Box, this is often the trouble you run into.
He could have made his life a lot easier by simply just being a team player on the payroll side of things as much as he is on ice.
Let’s hope we can replace him with as much production as he gives us at $10.63M next year.
TheGreenTBer
Paula Deen does bath salts
- Apr 30, 2021
- 10,553
- 13,126
That's uncalled for. I hate when fans do that crap.
Agreed. It's his contractual right.
You summed it all up right there.
