ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Chelios I believe.Was it Chris Chelios or Sheldon Souray who tried to warn us about Shanahan being a politician?
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Chelios I believe.Was it Chris Chelios or Sheldon Souray who tried to warn us about Shanahan being a politician?
Chelios I believe, and good reference. He was right. Boy oh boy was he right.Was it Chris Chelios or Sheldon Souray who tried to warn us about Shanahan being a politician?
It is true though. He is better 5v5. He is better on the PP. He is better on the PK. He produces better offensively while providing better defense. I'm not even sure on what basis you're disputing this, because you just keep making subjective statements about Rantanen.You keep insisting Marner is better in every game state, but that’s simply not true.
Rantanen is a better goalscorer, but a worse playmaker by a bigger amount, and a worse defensive player. They have both elevated their games when it matters; just in different ways.Rantanen is the better goal scorer, just as capable a playmaker, and has consistently elevated his game when it matters most.
They are attributes and skills that contribute to a player's overall impact. Their value is captured in the results they achieve using those skills. They don't get bonus points on top of their results because you like certain attributes.You dismiss his physical attributes as ‘bonus points,’ but size, strength, and the ability to protect the puck are actual hockey skills that contribute to a player’s impact.
The issue is that you're not only ignoring everything other than playoffs, but also you've come to the conclusion that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in the playoffs by ignoring everything other than production, and then also ignoring the context behind that production and the issues with comparing production across vastly different circumstances.You also claim I’m ignoring context while conveniently downplaying the fact that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in crucial situations, particularly in the playoffs
You're trying to frame this as a "biased narrative" and "cherry picking which aspects matter", but you're the only one doing either. You do this every time we talk, and it makes it clear that you're not here for productive discussion about hockey. You're just looking for a fight, and somebody to misrepresent and drag through the mud.You’re trying to frame this as a refusal to engage in productive discussion, but really, you just don’t like that I’m challenging your biased narrative. If we’re talking about full context, then we can’t just cherry-pick which aspects matter
Jesus. Marner is playing right now and you write and post this monstrosity rather than watching. What even are you?You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentIt is true though. He is better 5v5. He is better on the PP. He is better on the PK. He produces better offensively while providing better defense. I'm not even sure on what basis you're disputing this, because you just keep making subjective statements about Rantanen.
Rantanen is a better goalscorer, but a worse playmaker by a bigger amount, and a worse defensive player. They have both elevated their games when it matters; just in different ways.
They are attributes and skills that contribute to a player's overall impact. Their value is captured in the results they achieve using those skills. They don't get bonus points on top of their results because you like certain attributes.
The issue is that you're not only ignoring everything other than playoffs, but also you've come to the conclusion that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in the playoffs by ignoring everything other than production, and then also ignoring the context behind that production and the issues with comparing production across vastly different circumstances.
You're trying to frame this as a "biased narrative" and "cherry picking which aspects matter", but you're the only one doing either. You do this every time we talk, and it makes it clear that you're not here for productive discussion about hockey. You're just looking for a fight, and somebody to misrepresent and drag through the mud.
The only thing you really provided in this discussion was the goal stats, and those weren't even correct! Did you even acknowledge your mistake? No. Did you acknowledge how misleading it was to compare a goal scorer to a playmaker based on goal stats in the first place? No. What did the person you accuse of bias and cherry picking do? Give you the correct stats for your argument that they fundamentally disagree with.
All I've done is follow the facts and try to get you to expand your evaluation beyond zero context playoff production and subjective statements pumping up Rantanen. It's clear we're too far apart.
Marner is unquestionably getting a hat trick in this game to remind management that he's waiting.
Yeah he did play well. Colorado plays wide open and their D stinks, which helps him with time and space. If he can play this way against Florida in the playoffs, I will be impressedThought he had a great game tonight. Took a bad penalty but the game tonight isn’t on him. Our defensive core was honestly out to lunch tonight. If Marner can bring this level of effort to the playoffs I think we’d be happy with that.
You're presenting your opinion as fact, but the reality isn’t as one-sided as you're making it seem. Yes, Marner is a great all-around player, but calling him ‘better’ in every situation ignores key factors. Rantanen is the superior goal scorer, he drives offense in ways Marner doesn’t, and his ability to dominate possession and create plays under pressure makes him just as impactful, especially when it matters most.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentIt is true though. He is better 5v5. He is better on the PP. He is better on the PK. He produces better offensively while providing better defense. I'm not even sure on what basis you're disputing this, because you just keep making subjective statements about Rantanen.
You're conceding that Rantanen is the better goal scorer, but downplaying how significant that is. Goal scoring is the most valuable offensive skill, and Rantanen’s ability to finish plays at an elite level makes up for any supposed gap in playmaking. And while Marner may be a better pure playmaker, it’s not by a huge margin. Rantanen still creates at an elite level while also being the more dangerous individual offensive threat.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentRantanen is a better goalscorer, but a worse playmaker by a bigger amount, and a worse defensive player. They have both elevated their games when it matters; just in different ways.
"Exactly. Iimpact is measured by results, and Rantanen’s results speak for themselves. You can’t just dismiss certain attributes because they don’t fit your argument. His goal-scoring, size, and ability to control possession directly contribute to his success, and the fact that he consistently produces at an elite level proves their value.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentThey are attributes and skills that contribute to a player's overall impact. Their value is captured in the results they achieve using those skills. They don't get bonus points on top of their results because you like certain attributes.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm emphasizing playoffs because that’s where individual impact is magnified the most. Regular-season success matters, but the ultimate test of a player’s value is how they perform when the stakes are highest. Rantanen has consistently elevated his game in those moments, and that’s not just about raw production, it’s about how he produces, when he produces, and the impact it has on winning.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentThe issue is that you're not only ignoring everything other than playoffs, but also you've come to the conclusion that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in the playoffs by ignoring everything other than production, and then also ignoring the context behind that production and the issues with comparing production across vastly different circumstances.
If I were just looking for a fight, I wouldn’t be providing reasoned arguments backed by facts. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m ‘misrepresenting’ anything, it just means I’m challenging a perspective that I don’t think holds up under scrutiny.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentYou're trying to frame this as a "biased narrative" and "cherry picking which aspects matter", but you're the only one doing either. You do this every time we talk, and it makes it clear that you're not here for productive discussion about hockey. You're just looking for a fight, and somebody to misrepresent and drag through the mud.
I provided more than just goal stats, I highlighted Rantanen’s overall impact, his ability to take over games, and the value of his skill set. You keep trying to reduce my argument to a single stat to make it seem like I have no case, but that’s just misrepresenting what I’ve said.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentThe only thing you really provided in this discussion was the goal stats, and those weren't even correct! Did you even acknowledge your mistake? No. Did you acknowledge how misleading it was to compare a goal scorer to a playmaker based on goal stats in the first place? No. What did the person you accuse of bias and cherry picking do? Give you the correct stats for your argument that they fundamentally disagree with.
I’ve been presenting a balanced evaluation, not ignoring context but instead highlighting Rantanen’s consistent excellence in the playoffs, his goal-scoring ability, and overall impact. You claim to ‘follow the facts,’ but by dismissing Rantanen’s strengths in favor of your own narrative, you’re narrowing the scope of the discussion. Playoff performance matters because that’s when players truly prove their worth, and Rantanen has delivered in those moments.You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentAll I've done is follow the facts and try to get you to expand your evaluation beyond zero context playoff production and subjective statements pumping up Rantanen. It's clear we're too far apart.
You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored contentyou've come to the conclusion that Rantanen has outperformed Marner in the playoffs by ignoring everything other than production
Rantenan is not a Leaf and will never be a Leaf.
Get over it losers
Because nothing else f***ing matters!
Bitchy Mitchy has 50 points in 57 playoff games. Mikko has 101 points in 81 playoff games. I know which one I'd rather have playing for me in the playoffs. Here's a hint, it ain't Mitch the Bitch
He could have been, but we're stuck with Bitchy Mitchy.
I cannot wait until he walks. Addition by subtraction.
How's the free agent pool looking this summer? Time to spend some money.
It’s confirmed. He was asked to waive.
There’s a reason why I blocked that guyPlease tell me you’re under 12
So did I but I don’t remember him. Maybe he changed his name. LolThere’s a reason why I blocked that guy
Points 1-3 are definitely correct. As for point 5, don't slag on going to bed. It's the best part of my day.1. No one on the Leafs would waive to go to Carolina.
2. This was leaked to the media to put pressure on Marner’s camp to sign a contract before July 1st.
3. Marner’s on the top of the List of UFAs
4. Was Rantenan rumored to sign new contract with the leafs as he was with the oilers?
5. Go to bed child
That's uncalled for. I hate when fans do that crap.I hang out in Port Carling / Rousseau in the summer quite a bit. I’ve literally seen people harassing Mitch at TJ’s about hockey and things no player should ever have to deal with and it’s not a sight you want to see.
Agreed. It's his contractual right.I would not be surprised to see him jet for an equal or lesser amount of money because of the toxic reaction he’s been disproportionately been receiving as a result of the team’s performance; irrespective of his own contribution to that.
This is just my opinion from what I’ve seen in person and online.
You summed it all up right there.I feel bad but I don’t for his last contract negotiation. When you open Pandora’s Box, this is often the trouble you run into.
He could have made his life a lot easier by simply just being a team player on the payroll side of things as much as he is on ice.