Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[arso40]

That's, it's an other thing... It's not what you said. But i'm agree offensively he had been great but Nylander playing a high risk game who also coming with bad thing especially in the defensive side

You know even if Nylander missed 3 game and played less time vs pastrnak or marchand line, leafs allowed more HDC to bruins with Nylander on the ice ( 20) than Marner (18) at EV. It's about 5 HDCA/ game for Nylander and 2,6 for Marner. Basically 2X more when Nylander had been on the ice. Imagine giving that much scoring chance to Tkachuk or Kucherov line, do you think that would still good enough to help the team? litteraly what's happening 2 year ago vs Tampa and that's didn't looking good...

So yes even Nylander need to be a better player 200 feet in the ice

Nylander doesn’t have linemates? Buddy you look horrible your going at great lengths to prove a strange point

 

[Antropovsky]

Last year Matthews assisted by
EV
Player First Assists Second Assists
Bobby McMann 0 1
Calle Jarnkrok 1 0
Conor Timmins 1 0
Ilya Lyubushkin 1 1
Jake McCabe 1 2
John Tavares 1 2
Mark Giordano 1 0
Matthew Knies 4 4
Max Domi 5 0
Mitchell Marner 15 6
Morgan Rielly 2 4
Nicholas Robertson 0 1
Noah Gregor 1 1
Pontus Holmberg 3 2
Timothy Liljegren 1 1
TJ Brodie 2 3
Tyler Bertuzzi 1 2
William Lagesson 0 1
William Nylander 8 1

5v5
Bobby McMann 0 1
Calle Jarnkrok 1 0
Conor Timmins 1 0
Ilya Lyubushkin 1 1
Jake McCabe 1 2
Mark Giordano 1 0
Matthew Knies 4 4
Max Domi 5 0
Mitchell Marner 10 5
Morgan Rielly 1 1
Noah Gregor 1 0
Pontus Holmberg 3 1
Timothy Liljegren 1 1
TJ Brodie 2 3
Tyler Bertuzzi 1 2
William Lagesson 0 1
William Nylander 4 1

He's trying to be disingenuous by using 5v5 instead of EV.
This is where he gets his numbers.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=s&playerid=8479318

I guess me and the entire community of hockey analysts are disingenuous? I specifically like the part on the bottom of the quote where I reads "Further, we specify 5v5 as opposed to all even strength play in order to strip away empty net goals and situations where both teams are a man down, which can pad a player’s statistics."

5v5 statistics, quite simply, are statistics amassed while both teams have five skaters on the ice. Hockey analysts don’t agree on much, but one thing that most tend to acknowledge is the fact that 5v5 production is much more representative of a player’s true ability than total statistics. Statistics that represent all situations can easily become bloated (or depressed) based on a player’s usage on the power play and penalty kill. Further, we specify 5v5 as opposed to all even strength play in order to strip away empty net goals and situations where both teams are a man down, which can pad a player’s statistics.

 

[thusk]

Period offensive defensive I never specified he was our best skater what I said to you was he scored 3 goals in 4 games cause you mentioned woll was the only person that played good or whatever it was you said

3 goal in 4 gamw when 2 of those he did basically nothing but gave up a lot of scoring chance/ HDC..its not my definition of raising your game, sorry

Nylander doesn’t have linemates? Buddy you look horrible your going at great lengths to prove a strange point

Tavares had been his primary teammate , HDC together or without are basically the same but scoring chance with tavares without Nylander was better than when he played with and basically the same for Nylander with or without.

 

[arso40]

3 goal in 4 gamw when 2 of those he did basically nothing but gave up a lot of scoring chance/ HDC..its not my definition of raising your game, sorry



Tavares had been his primary teammate , HDC together or without are basically the same but scoring chance with tavares without Nylander was better than when he played with and basically the same for Nylander with or without.

View attachment 997120View attachment 997121

Why does that look soo gross

 

[thusk]

Why does that look soo gross

At the end, just saying outside of Woll, nobody had been good enough and should be better if leafs want to make a long run in playoff

 

[arso40]

At the end, just saying outside of Woll, nobody had been good enough and should be better if leafs want to make a long run in playoff

They all need to be better woll included that doesn’t mean woll and nylander weren’t great come on buddy

 

[Divine]

Just FYI a quick search showed that no other player even got remotely close to 25 assists (primary, secondary or combined) on Matthews 5 on 5 goals. So that right there negates your whole argument. And that’s likely the reason why you intentionally did not post Domi’s, Bertuzzi’s or Knies numbers, or even Nylander’s when they played together a few times.

If I had to hazard a guess, you will now use some sort of pacing stat, like A/60 for a player like Domi to tell me I’m wrong!

Well obviously the guy who spent the most time on the ice with Matthews got most of his assists. Were other teammates supposed to pick up assists on Matthews 5v5 goals from the bench?

Matthews linemate who makes nearly 11M out assisted first year rookie Matthew Knies - let's give him 14M!

 

[Nineteen67]

They all need to be better woll included that doesn’t mean woll and nylander weren’t great come on buddy

Nylander didn’t even try to win a puck battle against McDonagh, down a goal with under 4 minutes left in a game 7. If he had, it would have been a glorious scoring chance. The worst part is it really wasn’t a battle because he had it won, but would have rocked with a hit. If the going is easy, he does well, but as soon as there is a hurdle, he bails. He’s far from great.

 

[Confucius]

Well obviously the guy who spent the most time on the ice with Matthews got most of his assists. Were other teammates supposed to pick up assists on Matthews 5v5 goals from the bench?

Matthews linemate who makes nearly 11M out assisted first year rookie Matthew Knies - let's give him 14M!

Exactly, Mathews scores, 95% of the time somebody has to get an assist. Would anybody believe Mathews scores even 20% less without Mitch. So we are going to commit 100 million for the 5 to 10 more goals per season?

 

[arso40]

Nylander didn’t even try to win a puck battle against McDonagh, down a goal with under 4 minutes left in a game 7. If he had, it would have been a glorious scoring chance. The worst part is it really wasn’t a battle because he had it won, but would have rocked with a hit. If the going is easy, he does well, but as soon as there is a hurdle, he bails. He’s far from great.

How many years ago was that again? Cause I can show you a play where marner did that last year in the playoffs @Antropovsky what play was that where marner pulled the chute against the bruins last year ?

 

[arso40]

Nylander didn’t even try to win a puck battle against McDonagh, down a goal with under 4 minutes left in a game 7. If he had, it would have been a glorious scoring chance. The worst part is it really wasn’t a battle because he had it won, but would have rocked with a hit. If the going is easy, he does well, but as soon as there is a hurdle, he bails. He’s far from great.

When you miss the first 3 games with migraines lose game 4 snap on your teammates game 5 for whining and come out game 6 to score the tying goal then game winner and then score the only goal in game 7 I think you played great but that’s just my opinion

 

[arso40]

Well obviously the guy who spent the most time on the ice with Matthews got most of his assists. Were other teammates supposed to pick up assists on Matthews 5v5 goals from the bench?

Matthews linemate who makes nearly 11M out assisted first year rookie Matthew Knies - let's give him 14M!

That’s what was confusing me to but based on Francis reaction I just assumed it was a stupid comment and let it go

 

[Nineteen67]

How many years ago was that again? Cause I can show you a play where marner did that last year in the playoffs @Antropovsky what play was that where marner pulled the chute against the bruins last year ?

It was the game 7 they lost to TPA. At the time I was furious and raved about it because it was blatantly horrible. I remember my group chat where everyone simultaneously posted their outrage.

Yes, Marner has done it too, but I do not justify bad behaviour by pointing to other bad behaviour.

 

[arso40]

It was the game 7 they lost to TPA. At the time I was furious and raved about it because it was blatantly horrible. I remember my group chat where everyone simultaneously posted their outrage.

Yes, Marner has done it too, but I do not justify bad behaviour by pointing to other bad behaviour.

No but you bring up something from years ago ignoring progression that’s the point I don’t understand

 

[Nineteen67]

When you miss the first 3 games with migraines lose game 4 snap on your teammates game 5 for whining and come out game 6 to score the tying goal then game winner and then score the only goal in game 7 I think you played great but that’s just my opinion

That’s far great, in my opinion. When we saw it on film one can conclude that’s definition of mediocre.

 

[arso40]

That’s far great, in my opinion. When we saw it on film one can conclude that’s definition of mediocre.

And again when we saw marners performance last year that was even less than mediocre the media was ripping him apart ps. This is a marner thread you can take the nylander stuff over to the nylander thread and we can continue if you’d like

 

[Nineteen67]

No but you bring up something from years ago ignoring progression that’s the point I don’t understand

He made progress, but he’s far from great. Given the exact situation as he did in the TPA game 7, my guess is he’d bail again.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yea i would sign him for a discount

 

[arso40]

He made progress, but he’s far from great. Given the exact situation as he did in the TPA game 7, my guess is he’d bail again.

He just took a hit to make a play on the jt goal and got crushed but you right

 

[Divine]

Playoff Marner:

 

[Nineteen67]

He just took a hit to make a play on the jt goal and got crushed but you right

LOL. In the past 8 yrs I’m not sure I’ve Willy with snow on his hockey gear where he’s be laying on the ice. He’s more of world championship guy, which is fine.

 

[notbias]

Oh, you want to use the pace argument now?

Okay, how about this:

Nylander signed his 11.5M x 8 contract on January 8, 2024 with these stats last season:

37GP: 21G - 33A - 54P

He was on pace for 119 points and fourth in league scoring.

37 game sample size is always a great argument... I want to use a larger sample size and people want to use a smaller one for Nylander for some reason...

Use a 3 season sample size, does that work?

 

[arso40]

Playoff Marner:

DIVINE you my boy divine hahahahahaha that’s not even the one that’s the funny part I’m sure there’s more

 

[arso40]

Playoff Marner:

@Nineteen67 wanna talk about mediocre that’s egregious he had an open net didnt shoot it and then just cause he didn’t want any contact he didn’t wrap it around and ruined the whole play

 

[Antropovsky]

How many years ago was that again? Cause I can show you a play where marner did that last year in the playoffs @Antropovsky what play was that where marner pulled the chute against the bruins last year ?

There is video of him doing it vs Montreal and vs Tampa.

There is also game 3 of the Boston Series where both Paul Biz and Kelly Hrudey on separate broadcasts used the intermission to highlight how Marners effort on the boards was pathetic and disgraceful.