Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[notDatsyuk]

He’s probably staying. Before cap friendly died. The leafs had 29 million in cap with 6 D. 2 goalies and 7 forwards.

Mccabe
Knies
Marner
JT.
Cowan
And a 2 c fits easily

Marner and Tavares take $22 of that, leaving $7 for McCabe, Knies, Cowan, and a 2C. McCabe and Knies take another $3, and Cowan at league minimum leaves about $3 for a 2C. Good luck.

 

[notbias]

It's a reflection that Marner has a weak shot and has an issue scoring goals...like you know, in the playoffs? If he had a great shot, he would score more goalies and Matthews would get more assists, which would definitely help the team be more successful in the playoffs.

He relies on other players to score goals to boost his stats, while being one of the most expensive wingers in the league, and now wants a big raise when he's already overpaid...Sam Reinhart's new contract is $2 million lower on average than Marner's current contract...he wants to be paid 50% more than Reinhart's deal on his new contract. How do you win with a player like that? He's only in it for himself, not for team success, not anyone else.

I know everyone says Marner's shot sucks.

31st in wrist shot goals, 48th for snapshot goals, 54th in slap shot goals, and 45th in goals over the last 3 years.

I know he doesn't have a super deadly shot, but I think his shot is underrated.

 

[ToneDog]

Most likely scenario, Marner informed team he wasn’t waiving.

He knows only one team is willing to pay him his asking price. Will be interesting to see how he performs in the playoffs without a new contract.

 

[Superstar]

I know everyone says Marner's shot sucks.

31st in wrist shot goals, 48th for snapshot goals, 54th in slap shot goals, and 45th in goals over the last 3 years.

I know he doesn't have a super deadly shot, but I think his shot is underrated.

If he was making $8.5 million, it would be less of an issue, but he's one of the highest paid wingers in the league. His shot is still weak 8 years into the NHL...his affinity to play round the perimeter just makes it alot more difficult to score goals come playoff time....he could shinny his way to scoring some goals during the regular season against different teams, but we know that doesn't work facing the same team in the playoffs.

 

[Kazparov]

Not to change the subject away from shitting on MM but..

Is it possible he could move to center? Or is he too physically weak and will get pushed around in the D zone?

Offensively he already plays a lot like a center. Already PKs.

 

[Mess]

End of the day, I would expect Team X to want Marner in a secondary offensive role a la Kessel in Pittsburgh and not as “the man.” And that price point just doesn’t line up.

Said every GM in the league including his current one.

Therein lies the problem.

In fact even at his current price point there are only 11 players in the entire NHL that make more, and 3 are his teammates.

My suggestion to resolve this dilemma, is a sign and trade by Toronto first, that also forces them to retain $ and cap on the deal in order to make him palatable around the league in trade.

Leafs sign Marner to an 8 X $12.0 mil $96 mil deal and are forced to retain 25% (in order to find a taker) making him a 8 year @ $9 mil AAV player to his new team. Leafs have a 8 year X $3 mil dead cap space.

Now I know that sounds ugly from a Leafs POV, but the only other option which might be better is simply let him walk at seasons end and then use the $10.9 mil free cap space.

Pick your poison. !!!

 

[Martin Skoula]

I know everyone says Marner's shot sucks.

31st in wrist shot goals, 48th for snapshot goals, 54th in slap shot goals, and 45th in goals over the last 3 years.

I know he doesn't have a super deadly shot, but I think his shot is underrated.

Yeah I’d hope when the other team is double teaming your linemate every game you can use the space to get off a couple shots when you’re playing every offensive minute available.

His shot isn’t a threat that the other team cares about or has to cover the way Nylander or Matthews’ shots are. In the playoffs when he lives at the blueline all game it’s even less of a threat unless it’s Vasi in net for some reason.

 

[ToneDog]

Said every GM in the league including his current one.

Therein lies the problem.

In fact even at his current price point there are only 11 players in the entire NHL that make more, and 3 are his teammates.

My suggestion to resolve this dilemma, is a sign and trade by Toronto first, that also forces them to retain $ and cap on the deal in order to make him palatable around the league in trade.

Leafs sign Marner to an 8 X $12.0 mil $96 mil deal and are forced to retain 25% (in order to find a taker) making him a 8 year @ $9 mil AAV player to his new team. Leafs have a 8 year X $3 mil dead cap space.

Now I know that sounds ugly from a Leafs POV, but the only other option which might be better is simply let him walk at seasons end and then use the $10.9 mil free cap space.

Pick your poison. !!!

I suggested retaining two million and that did not go over well. Only way to maximize take home pay is to sign with a team in a tax free state. I am told $8.5-$9.5m in Florida = $12-$12.5mm in Toronto.

 

[Antropovsky]

I know everyone says Marner's shot sucks.

31st in wrist shot goals, 48th for snapshot goals, 54th in slap shot goals, and 45th in goals over the last 3 years.

I know he doesn't have a super deadly shot, but I think his shot is underrated.

Marner is an elite paid player. According to NHL Edge, which tracks shot speed and skating speed. Marner is below 50% in all categories of both skating and shot speed.

This is why he will never be a successful playoff performer...coupled with his severe lack of size/strength and lack of grit and fear of dirty areas.

It just doesn't add up. His playoff struggles make alot of sense given his skillset.

 

[Stephen]

I know everyone says Marner's shot sucks.

31st in wrist shot goals, 48th for snapshot goals, 54th in slap shot goals, and 45th in goals over the last 3 years.

I know he doesn't have a super deadly shot, but I think his shot is underrated.

Cool. Now let's do the 31st to 48th highest AAV in the league as a general reference.

So basically an $8.7 to $9.5 million player.

 

[Hellcat]

It's a reflection that Marner has a weak shot and has an issue scoring goals...like you know, in the playoffs? If he had a great shot, he would score more goalies and Matthews would get more assists, which would definitely help the team be more successful in the playoffs.

He relies on other players to score goals to boost his stats, while being one of the most expensive wingers in the league, and now wants a big raise when he's already overpaid...Sam Reinhart's new contract is $2 million lower on average than Marner's current contract...he wants to be paid 50% more than Reinhart's deal on his new contract. How do you win with a player like that? He's only in it for himself, not for team success, not anyone else.

Mitch has been a +PPG player 6 seasons in a row, Reinhart has been a PPG player twice. Before last season Reinhart's career high for goals scored was 33, Mitch's career high was 35. Reinhart plays in a zero state tax state, Mitch easily pays 44% of his income to taxes. Who is this mystery sniper that Matty would play with that would burry all these assists? There is another winger on his line right? Mitch has received Selke votes 6 years in a row, Reinhart 3 years. Mitch has 6 All Star gmae appearances, Reinhart 1. Matty did have 119 points pace a few years back. Matty is a shooter and that is what we want him doing, not passing the puck. Mitch is a setup guy and that is what we want him doing not shooting the puck. Those two players are not comparable, your whatabouting and that never makes sense, your logic is dismissive of key facts.

There is another Leaf winger that is being paid 3 mil more than Reinhart but you dont mention him, I would be interested to know why he got a pass?

 

[notbias]

Yeah I’d hope when the other team is double teaming your linemate every game you can use the space to get off a couple shots when you’re playing every offensive minute available.

His shot isn’t a threat that the other team cares about or has to cover the way Nylander or Matthews’ shots are. In the playoffs when he lives at the blueline all game it’s even less of a threat unless it’s Vasi in net for some reason.

Yes, I agree, his shot is not as good as some of the best shooters in the league.

100% agree.

Cool. Now let's do the 31st to 48th highest AAV in the league as a general reference.

So basically an $8.7 to $9.5 million player.

View attachment 892901

[MOD] no one mentioned cap hit, I just said his shot was better than he gets credit for, I didn't even say it was good.

 

[notbias]

Marner is an elite paid player. According to NHL Edge, which tracks shot speed and skating speed. Marner is below 50% in all categories of both skating and shot speed.

This is why he will never be a successful playoff performer...coupled with his severe lack of size/strength and lack of grit and fear of dirty areas.

It just doesn't add up. His playoff struggles make alot of sense given his skillset.

How's his accuracy? Assuming that'd be taken into account.

Skating speed is irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[Hellcat]

This is great.

I also think one of the big coaching and culture problems in Toronto is they play this mid tempo skilled possession game for most of the regular season, then switch up the cast and try to go toe to toe with Boston playing a hard and heavy playoff style game.

Like why would you not go to war with one consistent game plan, set of details and muscle memory in pressure moments if that’s your design? If the original Keefe-Dubas theory of outskilling everyone ever made sense, you should be outskilling them in the playoffs. Play that skill game with conviction if that’s what you believed in for 82 games.

Inconsistent messaging.

Which is exactly what one of the Panthers said just after they won the cup, he said they decided they would play a certain style in preseason and played that game every game. They played hard, they took away time and space and they always out numbered the puck carrier, their game was to be the bigger bully, even without the puck. If they had the puck you had to pay the price to get it from them, if you had the puck you paid the price until you gave it away.

The game you play in the playoffs has to be muscle memory and can't be an experiment.

 

[Superstar]

Mitch has been a +PPG player 6 seasons in a row, Reinhart has been a PPG player twice. Before last season Reinhart's career high for goals scored was 33, Mitch's career high was 35. Reinhart plays in a zero state tax state, Mitch easily pays 44% of his income to taxes. Who is this mystery sniper that Matty would play with that would burry all these assists? There is another winger on his line right? Mitch has received Selke votes 6 years in a row, Reinhart 3 years. Mitch has 6 All Star gmae appearances, Reinhart 1. Matty did have 119 points pace a few years back. Matty is a shooter and that is what we want him doing, not passing the puck. Mitch is a setup guy and that is what we want him doing not shooting the puck. Those two players are not comparable, your whatabouting and that never makes sense, your logic is dismissive of key facts.

There is another Leaf winger that is being paid 3 mil more than Reinhart but you dont mention him, I would be interested to know why he got a pass?

Reinhart has been on a crap Buffalo team most of his career, while Marner has been playing with elite players on the Leafs...but we saw what Reinhart has done with a good team, and even after, he's humble and realistic enough to know what a reasonable salary is when building a winning culture and a winning team. When the #1 goal is chasing money, no amount of money is really enough.

What is the playoff accomplishment of that LW and how many Cups had he won?

Do you honestly think Marner deserves $12.5 million per on a new deal? Why exactly does he think he deserves that kind of money? He's delusional.

 

[keonsbitterness]

There is another Leaf winger that is being paid 3 mil more than Reinhart but you dont mention him, I would be interested to know why he got a pass?

Probably because most would say his new deal is primarily a result of our internal salary structure.

Nylander won't get a pass if he has a poor season.

 

[Hellcat]

Cool. Now let's do the 31st to 48th highest AAV in the league as a general reference.

So basically an $8.7 to $9.5 million player.

View attachment 892901

If the logic is you ONLY get paid based on your effectiveness to score goals, based on last seasons scoring, McDavid would be the 35th highest paid player...

 

[Stephen]

If the logic is you ONLY get paid based on your effectiveness to score goals, based on last seasons scoring, McDavid would be the 35th highest paid player...

Oh for sure, but Marner clearly shouldn't be even a $10 million player. $9.5 million is a perfectly reasonable deal for a player of his limitations.

 

[Hellcat]

Reinhart has been on a crap Buffalo team most of his career, while Marner has been playing with elite players on the Leafs...but we saw what Reinhart has done with a good team, and even after, he's humble and realistic enough to know what a reasonable salary is when building a winning culture and a winning team. When the #1 goal is chasing money, no amount of money is really enough.

What is the playoff accomplishment of that LW and how many Cups had he won?

Do you honestly think Marner deserves $12.5 million per on a new deal? Why exactly does he think he deserves that kind of money? He's delusional.

You're asking the wrong person, I think getting paid a million a year to travel the continent and play a kid's game is ridiculous. $20 beers and $10 Hotdogs is stupid...

 

[therealkoho]

The problem that he had in the room was Keefe. He wanted to respond after what Bennett did to Knies and Keefe told him not to.

If a player sees an injustice nobody can tell them not to retaliate and a player wouldn't ask to be real about it. ROR was still hoping his finger would hold together so I don't think he was in business to punch anybody on the helmet

 

[Confucius]

Also possible.

Getting a NMC is a big deal, players aren’t just going to give it up.

 

[therealkoho]

Yes, he's good, but at this point he isn't a NHL winner.

He hasn't proven to be anything other than a regular season star.

That's it.

none of them are

MM16 holding out for 13AAV x 8.
He's the problem.

Of course he's the big barrier here.

link or delete

 

[therealkoho]

Who knows, they may already be inhouse.
A new coach may tap different players for heavy lifting.
I'm guessing the new coach will change the tactics employed.

While I find the comment suspect about O'Rielly wanting to hand out punishment to Bennett but being told not to, if that was true maybe Keefe reined in the troops?

0 truth unless he didn't want ROR breaking that finger again,

I've never seen a player ask and I've never seen a coach say no to that stuff

 

[therealkoho]

Sounds about right to me. Good post

a lot of mind reading went into that post

Said every GM in the league including his current one.

Therein lies the problem.

In fact even at his current price point there are only 11 players in the entire NHL that make more, and 3 are his teammates.

My suggestion to resolve this dilemma, is a sign and trade by Toronto first, that also forces them to retain $ and cap on the deal in order to make him palatable around the league in trade.

Leafs sign Marner to an 8 X $12.0 mil $96 mil deal and are forced to retain 25% (in order to find a taker) making him a 8 year @ $9 mil AAV player to his new team. Leafs have a 8 year X $3 mil dead cap space.

Now I know that sounds ugly from a Leafs POV, but the only other option which might be better is simply let him walk at seasons end and then use the $10.9 mil free cap space.

Pick your poison. !!!

diju mean poisson? of so I'll try the halibut

 

[therealkoho]

TRUE TAX TRUTH

Averaging out Reinhart's salary to $8.625 million annually, he owes $3.15 million in taxes in Florida. He would pay $1.1 million more in California, $1.5 million more in New York and $1.4 million more in Toronto, according to a calculator provided publicly by Cardinal Point Athlete Advisors.

Over the length of the contract that could save him up to $12 million.

NHL free agency shows teams in U.S. states with no income tax have an advantage

It's become difficult to deny the impact of favourable tax situations for teams around the NHL.

www.ctvnews.ca