Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gabriel426]

You always get this middle brother vibe from Marner that he doesn’t get the big boy treatment Matthews gets and he’s upset every time he’s gotta sit in the back seat with Willie.

The classic middle child syndrome or short/small man syndrome.

 

[IPS]

I say this with all possible love, but some of y'all really just need to put each other on ignore. Seems like the fighting in here is rising to the point of blood feuding. Remember that a) arguing on the internet is supposed to be fun, and b) you're never going to convince the other person, you're only trying to convince the undecided reader.

Anyways, I'm contractually obligated twice a week to post that Marner is a bozo and we should trade his ass for a bag of pucks. I get paid more if I write that stinky pucks will do, but I don't need the money so I want you all to know that I believe on my own that stinky pucks will do quite fine, and a seventh round pick would be a big win for Pizza Brad.

Oh it's lots of fun. Why do you think we're here doing it?

 

[Legion34]

Still think Marner at 8/93 is the win win scenario here.

But if not that then seattle/vegas/ are the moves I would say.

I would prefer Seattle. 1 of McCann/bjork plus wright.

I mean Columbus. Anaheim. Chicago have pieces but I doubt he goes there. What we really need is a 2 c for the future.

 

[saffronleaf]

Your suggesting that if we didn't live in a pc world you would be able to be as hateful as you want to be, so yea....wow.

don't think that's what he intended at all

 

[LeafGrief]

Oh it's lots of fun. Why do you think we're here doing it?

For sure, but I’m just noting that a few of the conversations seem to have escalated from fun and aggressive into some that seem rather nasty. I’ve crossed that line myself enough times to know that by that point it’s stopped being fun.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You could say the same for Mitch, he has no incentive to waive, his deal is almost over. His agent is know to draw these things out to gain leverage. Mitch is going to sign 500k to a mil more than Willie and fans will be apoplectic until they find their new target.

Some fans are simply stupid (not you), the goaltending sucked, the coaching sucked, our special teams was horrid, some of our D got walked almost every time they were on the ice and the solution is trade one of the best wingers in the world, get pennies on the dollar and that fixes everything.... ohh its the cap space.... no it's what you do with the cap space... do we really trust Tree to do the right thing? I looked at his UFA history, I wouldn't say he's a guy that is super successful with trades and UFA signings , he's OK at it but not a guy who is a lock to do the right thing... and when there is a win it's usually an over pay for a few years ... isn't that the problem we have now, players who are over paid to market value? So really it comes down to stupid angry pitch-forkers that can't articulate their point.

If you were to come to me and say Mitch+ for Makarr ... that makes sense, it makes the Leafs better but the Leafs are dealing from a a disadvantage, they would never get fair value or the cap space that many fans thinks will automatically come it would more like Mitch for Amaido, Griegg and a pick



My public speaking coach said to speak to the level you are talking to, mission accomplished?

Unless he decides that he really doesn't want to play here (hostile environment) this coming season, there's not much point in waiving, just wait out the year and sign here or try FA.

I can only see one situation, where he might want to waive. If he thinks that, as a free agent, he won't get more than say $10M, but if he agrees to a sign-and-trade he might get more.

Some posters think he would get $12M as an FA, and it would be interesting to know what he thinks.

 

[MCR74]

marner is such a boston cream donut

That's an insult to Boston cream donuts.

 

[Notsince67]

Sigh ... I have and no one can intelligently articulate why Mitch? Can't trade Willie and AM they just signed contracts... is there a rule in the CBA that says you cant get traded in the 1st year of your contract? Stupid logic... Next. Can't trade JT he is the Captain, he wont waive, no one wants him, cap hit too high. 1) Who cares if he is a Captain, Leafs have traded and/or attempted to trade almost every Captain since the early 90's 2) No one wants one of the best down low and face off centers in the league, who can get you 70 points? Sure, no one wants that. 3) Plenty of people have waived with NTC/NMC - who says Mitch is going to waive? 4) Retain cap, it's not like this is the first time a team retains salary. Rielly? Do we forget he was the second guy who let Pasta get by him, Mitch was the first. Trade mitch because he is a petulant child - Yes he is 100%, so are Matty and Willie but they get a pass because they signed a contract first? Makes no sense.

Every argument and I mean every argument that has been posted here has framed it in such a way that they dismiss every thing until the framed statement is so narrow you come to only one conclusion.

The team needs significant changes, I agree but why one person an not another has never been effectively articulated

This place can't even agree on the ontology let alone the epistomology of the makeup of the team. The framing you mention isn't from an effort to seek truth. It is a weak effort to steel man a position that is derrived by child like tribalism. Hardly worth the effort of an appeal, regardless of where you fall on every issue.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

But you said he was being traded

He is.

But I said, no one may want him.

GMs won’t trade for people they don’t want.

 

[myleafs]

don't think that's what he intended at all

If thats the case then I apologize, if not then.... wow

 

[therealkoho]

I would say Matthews deserves a lot more of the heat that Marner gets and escapes it as the traditional golden child.

this 100% this

You may have noticed that super character guy ROR recently asked Trotz if there was any way they could make a deal with Toronto to get Marner whom he characterized as "a real solid character guy and a great addition to the Preds!"

Remember what O'Reilly said about not resigning here, about how there were "problems" in the room(whatever that meant, but I think I know), and not the pablum nonsense of geepers Toronto's too big or whatever.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't think they should sign Marner.

However, if they do want to go that route he's not taking less than 13.38% of the cap (in line with his previous deal). This means he will want a minimum of 12.3M per year (92M cap).

This also means

Matthews - 13.5
Nylander - 11.5
Marner - 12.3
Rielly - 7.5

44.8M in the core or 48% of the cap.

Now you have to extend Knies, Woll's extension kicks in, extend McCabe (or replace him), and replace Tavares. This is just to keep the same team.

This is a disaster waiting to happen and basically the Leafs are finished for the next 3-4 seasons if he's re-signed. A treadmill team. Their only way out is to restructure the cap and get rid of both Marner + Tavares.

Hopefully we lock up Tavares for 11mil before he asks for a raise.

 

[Stephen]

this 100% this

You may have noticed that super character guy ROR recently asked Trotz if there was any way they could make a deal with Toronto to get Marner whom he characterized as "a real solid character guy and a great addition to the Preds!"

Remember what O'Reilly said about not resigning here, about how there were "problems" in the room(whatever that meant, but I think I know), and not the pablum nonsense of geepers Toronto's too big or whatever.

Whatever it is in that room, we’ve heard a lot of good things about the people in there as individuals. They profess to love each other as teammates, etc. so you take them at their word they’re all great guys.

But from a distance both Matthews and Marner have a lot of growing up to do to become playoff winners and they need a lot of guidance to get there. Because I can point to McDavid and Draisaitl in Edmonton, they got a lot closer to winning. Are better players and have way more “skill and talent.” But they carry themselves like they mean business. Our guys don’t look that serious.

 

[mikeyz]

Your suggesting that if we didn't live in a pc world you would be able to be as hateful as you want to be, so yea....wow.

No offense, but, I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Because that's clearly not what I said.

What I said was today we are more PC then ever. So, it's a guarantee that you'll be punished for it today. You weren't able to get away with it even back then. It's just really noticeable and amplified in this day and age.

Your rush to judgement and misunderstanding of what I said actually proved my point.

 

[Arzak]

Give him to Utah for free. Get some hockey karma back!

 

[IPS]

Lucky I take screen shots of all of my posts after I threatened them with a lol soot.

The deletions have been AMAZING! Keep making my case....

No interesting discussions allowed please. Please instead be a real fan and post about how excited you are about the new rendition of the core 4 + pawn shop squad for next season.

 

[mikeyz]

don't think that's what he intended at all

It's not. And his rush to judgment leap with what he said literally proved my point. LOL

 

[Gary Nylund]

Short memory and poor grasp of the English language is no way to go through life...

Again if you understood English grammar at a rudimentary level, you would understand that comma's have a purpose in a sentence. You would then understand that the first two points I made in that sentence were never attributed to YOU, the third point in that sentence I specifically called you out.

You can't make your point without throwing disgusting slur's around and you can't read the written word at a grade school level, this is why you are constantly the aggressor and consistently at odds with many posters. Sorry dude you just are not worth my time.

LMAO. While mocking me in a rude and condescending manner, you made such an elementary mistake not once, but twice!!

Genius ... " ' " is not a comma ... you just keep digging that hole deeper, proving my point again and again.

You're either pretending not miss the point, or you truly don't understand.

Commas, apostrophes, whatever the specific punctuation is irrelevant. The point is that you're mocking me for multiple things (which I bolded for you) and the fact that you don't even understand how to use apostrophes properly shows that you're the one who's doesn't understand some very basic rudimentary, grade school level English grammar rules and therefore your arrogant (and failed) attempt to lecture and ridicule ridicule someone on this subject is ironic to the max, and also freaking hilarious.

Go ahead "genius", explain how someone who doesn't understand this basic grammar rule that is taught at the grade school level, is justified in lecturing people on the subject?

If I ever was to post something so ridiculous in such arrogant, pompous fashion and in the process put my foot so far in my mouth that it ended up coming out of my ass the way you did, I think I'd find a hole to crawl in for while and and think about how maybe I should be more humble and less of a pompous ass in the future. But you, you're actually doubling down and pretending that your ignorance somehow "proves your point", amazing stuff.

Your lack of self awareness is astonishing. It seems that you're blissfully unaware of how foolish this makes you look but hey, if you want keep doubling down on your ignorance then that's fine by me, we can talk about this as long as you want.

 

[mikeyz]

this 100% this

You may have noticed that super character guy ROR recently asked Trotz if there was any way they could make a deal with Toronto to get Marner whom he characterized as "a real solid character guy and a great addition to the Preds!"

Remember what O'Reilly said about not resigning here, about how there were "problems" in the room(whatever that meant, but I think I know), and not the pablum nonsense of geepers Toronto's too big or whatever.

The problem that he had in the room was Keefe. He wanted to respond after what Bennett did to Knies and Keefe told him not to.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Make it known that Marner is available and let's see what we can get.

I really wanted to do this after we lost MTL. Can you imagine the haul we could have gotten for the 1st team all-star under contract for 4 more years and where we might be as a team today? Maybe we even win a cup by now! That might sound like a big stretch but considering that we almost always fall short by just one game, I think a #1D in place of an ineffective Marner could have swung many of those games in our favor.

My argument was that despite all his point production and fancy stats, he just didn't look like a playoff performer (paraphrasing). And of course he sucked against MTL. I got crucified for that opinion but as of today it sure looks like I was spot on.

marner is such a boston cream donut

It's so hard to say what's most appropriate but someone earlier said eclair, I'm kind of liking that. Though I originally went with cupcake, I still think that's pretty good. And to be fair to Marner, I have used the word cupcake when describing not just him, but our team as a whole in the playoffs.

How well does he play in his own zone?

Not as well as Marner, no doubt about it.

Marner is such a frustrating player. He's so talented, and he plays so well 95% of the time, but that 5% just happens to happen in those crucial games when our season is decided. Maybe it's just a big coincidence, seems unlikely though after all these years.

I have said in the past that we should hire the best sports shrinks in the business to work with him. Apparently we did hire some people like that, not sure how much time they've spent with Marner or if he's been receptive to their overtures but it seems they haven't helped him. I feel like he hasn't been the same since Matt Martin left. Maybe he needs a father or big brother type to pump him up, protect him, make him feel good and build up his confidence? Maybe Berube can do that and we'll see a brand new version of Marner next spring? Yes I know it seems unlikely and over the top optimistic but if he's still on our team next year, that hope is all I have to cling to so I guess that's what I'll do.

Whatever it is in that room, we’ve heard a lot of good things about the people in there as individuals. They profess to love each other as teammates, etc. so you take them at their word they’re all great guys.

But from a distance both Matthews and Marner have a lot of growing up to do to become playoff winners and they need a lot of guidance to get there. Because I can point to McDavid and Draisaitl in Edmonton, they got a lot closer to winning. Are better players and have way more “skill and talent.” But they carry themselves like they mean business. Our guys don’t look that serious.

Perfectly stated once again! I'm reminded of not so long ago when O'Dog said that this is "not a serious team". Hard to argue at this point, that's for sure.

 

[Stephen]

Perfectly stated once again! I'm reminded of not so long ago when O'Dog said that this is "not a serious team". Hard to argue at this point, that's for sure.

This is the first Leafs era I’ve watched where we had a significant home grown crop of core players come up in a rebuild and over the years feel like I learned a lot about the coaching and motivational side, the psychological side and the culture side.

In the past under Burns and Quinn, culture never seemed to be a real issue. They were conventional veteran teams and for all the Muskoka 5 talk they were just an old team that wasn’t deep or good enough in their last days.

Under Burke and Nonis we were just never good enough skill wise for culture to even be top 5 on the list.

And now we have this fantastic skilled core group and they just behave in the weirdest ways under pressure. Fundamentally unserious core. Seem like nice people but their workmanship and consistency is very poor. I don’t think they even understand what they’re supposed to be learning when they lose. I don’t think they understand what a process even is. They show up. Then they don’t show up. They get embarrassed. They show up. For a bit.

 

[PanniniClaus]

The problem is all inside your head, Shanny said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to sign Marner
Shanny said, it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to sign Marner
Fifty ways to sign Marner
We'll just suck at the back, Jack
Stick with the Shanaplan
Be regular season heroes, Roy
Get the bottom 6 for free
In Marner we trust, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
The powerplay is the key, Lee
We still have no shooter up top
Ooh, spend peanuts on the back, Jack
Stick with the shanaplan
Throw gloves in a fit of rage, Roy
You just listen to me
8 years of Marner is a must, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
He's an instagram star, Lee
Looked at as a God you see

Shanny said it grieves him to see Mitchy in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make him smile again
The team really appreciates that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways
Shanny said, why don't we all just sleep on it tonight?
And I believe in the morning you'll all begin to see the light
And then he showed me his three rings and I realized he probably was right
There must be fifty ways to sign Mitch Marner
Fifty ways to sign Mitch Marner

 

[Mess]

You always get this middle brother vibe from Marner that he doesn’t get the big boy treatment Matthews gets and he’s upset every time he’s gotta sit in the back seat with Willie.

Mitch only has 1 older brother Christopher .. So perhaps he acts more like the spoiled little brother syndrome.

Ironically Chris is a fire fighter (IIRC) who fearlessly rushes into burning buildings unafraid of his own safety, while Mitch is so scared to play in traffic, intimidated by physical play and won't even win a physical puck battle because self preservation from any physical harm as a soft perimeter player is his modus operandi.

Its why Casper the Friendly ghost struggles each playoffs when the checking gets tight and the physical play is ramped up to a 9 out 10, and Marner checks out. The least likely North-South player on the Leafs, a style the new coach prefers to play. Making Mitch essentially a square peg in a round hole as far as fit for Leafs new direction forward system and style.

 

[notbias]

He is.

But I said, no one may want him.

GMs won’t trade for people they don’t want.

Or that aren't available

 

[Gamble9]

Marner might be alot of things but he's also a elite talent who can play anywhere from 1 to 9 and make players better he's a superstar on any team that doesn't have matthews 1 year doesn't prove anything if we run talent like his out of town plan the parade somewhere else