Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Hellcat]

You failed Kindergarten Logic, didn't you?

I'm super smert, I didn't go to skewl...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is gonna get another contract at that age if he wants. Or he can extend. Like I said I think most players want the money, whether it’s 7 or 8 years. As long as it’s there. If it’s on a 8 vs 5 then I think that matters.

Getting the money over 7 years instead of 8 means more money for him later. Term always matters, IMO this is pretty basic stuff. And like you say, most players want the money and I'm pretty sure Marner's no exception.

Nope

I know you can't. I was just making the point that you might want to stop stating your conjectures as if they're facts.

 

[Notsince67]

Yelling at clouds so early in the morning. LOL.

I've always said that most likely scenario is that Marner remains a Maple Leaf, does that make me a Marner fan boy?

Hint - the answer is no.

Re. Nylander, sure we can talk if you want to. Regular season I take Marner, playoffs I take Nylander. Marner's just been so bad the last 2 playoff series that it's impossible for to bet on him going forward but regular season when there's no pressure, he's still money in the bank.

You have gone on and on that you hope that Marner gets traded on July 1st and are now saying you thought he would stay? Sell it to someone else who believes in your lies

 

[Hellcat]

LOLOLOLOLOL. You've backed yourself up into a corner with this comparing Marner to McDavid nonsense so now you're using strawman arguments and straight up lies to try to get out.

Not gonna work buddy.

You are an interesting person Gary... which argument do you believe is strawman and which statement do you believe is a lie?

You have gone on and on that you hope that Marner gets traded on July 1st and are now saying you thought he would stay? Sell it to someone else who believes in your lies

He moved the goal posts? ... well I'm shocked...

 

[GoonieFace]

You have gone on and on that you hope that Marner gets traded on July 1st and are now saying you thought he would stay? Sell it to someone else who believes in your lies

There’s a difference between wanting him traded, but realizing it’s probably not going to happen

 

[Gary Nylund]

You have gone on and on that you hope that Marner gets traded on July 1st and are now saying you thought he would stay? Sell it to someone else who believes in your lies

I hope Marner gets traded.

I believe Marner probably won't be traded.

These two statements are not in conflict with each other. If you're having trouble understanding this I'm not sure how to explain it to you as it seems self-explanatory to me. Maybe ask a friend to explain it to you?

You are an interesting person Gary... which argument do you believe is strawman and which statement do you believe is a lie?

Does it matter? Both are forms of pollution that make this place a less intelligent place.

 

[Notsince67]

There’s a difference between wanting him traded, but realizing it’s probably not going to happen

Wanting him traded specifically on July 1. Let's navigate this thing carefully based on these standards because if Marner kills it next year he would claim that he wanted him traded only on July 1st and no other times.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There’s a difference between wanting him traded, but realizing it’s probably not going to happen

Thank you. How is this not obvious to everyone? Geez Louise, is the heat wave making people lose their minds or something?

Wanting him traded specifically on July 1. Let's navigate this thing carefully based on these standards because if Marner kills it next year he would claim that he wanted him traded only on July 1st and no other times.

LOL, it's amusing watching you spin. Funny how you're so often telling people that they don't understand English etc. and you don't even understand that wanting something to happen, and thinking something will happen are two completely different things.

Keep those arrogant/condescending/sarcastic comments coming, you're on a roll.

 

[Evilhomer]

I agree. However, I can see Shanahan (assuming he's calling the shots) figuring that they're in win now mode because they only have a few years of the stars being in their prime, plus they added Tanev who probably has no more than a couple of good years left. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them selling more futures to win now and if you think the cupboards are bare now, wait'll you see where we're at 5 years from now.

This could get ugly, and I don't mean just a little bit ugly like it is now, I mean quadruple coyote ugly!

No question they are in "win now" mode, so they will definitely be selling assets at the deadline this season, even more so because they will have a good amount of accrued cap space at that time since they won't be into LTIR this season.

 

[seanlinden]

I agree. However, I can see Shanahan (assuming he's calling the shots) figuring that they're in win now mode because they only have a few years of the stars being in their prime, plus they added Tanev who probably has no more than a couple of good years left. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them selling more futures to win now and if you think the cupboards are bare now, wait'll you see where we're at 5 years from now.

This could get ugly, and I don't mean just a little bit ugly like it is now, I mean quadruple coyote ugly!

Just because you're in win-now mode, doesn't mean you can't view this as a bit of an opportunity to "reset" a bit.

Even if they "lose" a Marner trade, it's at the very least going to open up the requisite cap space to be able to jump on a stud defenceman if/when the opportunity arises... whereas right now, they're kind of stuck.

Let's say that the Blues all of a sudden decide to offload Colton Parayko; or if Jacob Trouba didn't put Toronto on his NTC list; or if Vegas decides they want to cut ties with Alex Pietrangelo, or the Oilers have trouble coming to terms with Evan Bouchard, or the Wings with Moritz Seider, or the Islanders with Noah Dobson.

Assume Liljegren goes the other way in any sort of trade, there's no real practical way to get yourself into a position where you can add a $6m+ defenceman.

If you go out and do something like Marner for Kempe + a 1st; you've somewhat filled his spot in the lineup. You've created $5m in cap space... and you've acquired an asset which you can use towards a future deal.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I hope Marner gets traded.

I believe Marner probably won't be traded.

These two statements are not in conflict with each other. If you're having trouble understanding this I'm not sure how to explain it to you as it seems self-explanatory to me. Maybe ask a friend to explain it to you?


Does it matter? Both are forms of pollution that make this place a less intelligent place.

Even if you said one thing one day and the exact opposite the next who cares.

You're allowed to change your mind. This is an opinion we're talking about. Not some fact set in stone.

Personally I think they trade Marner to three different teams AND keep him too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just because you're in win-now mode, doesn't mean you can't view this as a bit of an opportunity to "reset" a bit.

Even if they "lose" a Marner trade, it's at the very least going to open up the requisite cap space to be able to jump on a stud defenceman if/when the opportunity arises... whereas right now, they're kind of stuck.

Let's say that the Blues all of a sudden decide to offload Colton Parayko; or if Jacob Trouba didn't put Toronto on his NTC list; or if Vegas decides they want to cut ties with Alex Pietrangelo, or the Oilers have trouble coming to terms with Evan Bouchard, or the Wings with Moritz Seider, or the Islanders with Noah Dobson.

Assume Liljegren goes the other way in any sort of trade, there's no real practical way to get yourself into a position where you can add a $6m+ defenceman.

If you go out and do something like Marner for Kempe + a 1st; you've somewhat filled his spot in the lineup. You've created $5m in cap space... and you've acquired an asset which you can use towards a future deal.

If we trade Marner, that's one thing. If that doesn't happen though, I can still see them sellling the future in a futile attempt to win now.

I agree they should try to reset a bit like you say, it's hard though. It's always tricky to balance present needs with future needs, very tricky. Maybe I'm just paranoid at this point (justifiably so though LOL) but I don't see this being handled very well and being stuck with an aging group of stars and empty cupboards in the not too distant future.

Nothing to do but hope we get lucky and one of our goalies wins us a cup this season. Maybe Murray rises like a phoenix from the ashes LOL.

Even if you said one thing one day and the exact opposite the next who cares.

You're allowed to change your mind. This is an opinion we're talking about. Not some fact set in stone.

Personally I think they trade Marner to three different teams AND keep him too.

Sure, we can all change our minds. I've been consistent on this though and I want Marner traded period. As far as will it happen or not, I've never been sure about that one way or the other though I am less optimistic now than I was a few weeks ago.

 

[seanlinden]

The Leafs cant help but double or even triple down on dumb moves.

Yeah, it's truly perplexing.

The model for a successful team is that you need to get guys on discounts. You need to get guys to leave money on the table because they want to be there.... yet the Leafs somehow think they should be exempt from this basic requirement.

 

[Puckstuff]

The Leafs cant help but double or even triple down on dumb moves.

I think it's a bit to late to trade Marner.

The time to trade Marner was before free agency.

If the leafs traded Marner for a top pair D, they needed time to sign a winger i.e Tarasenko so you end up with top pair D + Tarasenko.

If they traded Marner for a winger i.e Konecny, they would have benefited from the additional time and cap space to use the 5 m in extra cap space on a better d-man in free agency.

1 for 1, there is no trade that makes us better.

It's probably best to just hold on to Marner and if he walks, then it is what it is.

 

[Hellcat]

Does it matter? Both are forms of pollution that make this place a less intelligent place.

If you call someone a liar, and I do think honesty is an important character trait, you should show enough integrity and confidence in yourself to back up those statements with direct quotes... you wouldn't want people to think you are just a person who casts reckless aspersions? If you chose to decline, I think we all know why ...Take your time ....

 

[ToneDog]

I think it's a bit to late to trade Marner.

The time to trade Marner was before free agency.

If the leafs traded Marner for a top pair D, they needed time to sign a winger i.e Tarasenko so you end up with top pair D + Tarasenko.

If they traded Marner for a winger i.e Konecny, they would have benefited from the additional time and cap space to use the 5 m in extra cap space on a better d-man in free agency.

1 for 1, there is no trade that makes us better.

It's probably best to just hold on to Marner and if he walks, then it is what it is.

Pretty much a given that they tried. Only Tre knows why no trade was made.

Kypreos claims that ROR tried to convince Trots to trade for Marner.

Hard to find a trade partner willing to give up enough assets, pay Marner and have Marner waive to go there. Marner will have an easier time finding a new home as a UFA. Wonder if the Hawks will pay him to play with Bedard and Bertuzzi.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well Gary a 7/8 year deal is the same if the total money matches. I don’t really think players care whether they get 7 or 8 as long as the total money they want matches.

Completely ignoring the fact that you can make more money in the 8th year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I though framing a debate in an unreasonable and illogical way was the game we were playing. Pretty sure when they induct people into the HOF they ask only one question how did the player perform in games 5,6.7...amiright? Or do they look at the sum of the parts of the players career? Believe it or not there is a standard for assessing a players ability... as much as Gary choses to ignore that standard, the standard is not moving goal posts to justify your belief.

So now you're pretending that your moving the goalposts to justify your belief was meant to be sarcastic rather than unreasonable and illogical?

I'm having trouble keeping up.

 

[notDatsyuk]

How many times have I read about this "hate cult" being nothing more than a small group on HF yet allegedly it's now significant enough to deter players from signing here?

Which exactly is it?


Same here. Not exactly sure what he's got his panties in a bunch over this time.

I think the differences between 'would not', 'could not', 'should not' and 'can not' are confusing to some posters.

Anything can happen including Marner asking for an out. The possibility was always a 2 party decision. That said, the reports that the sell job to Skinner that he would get to play with Marner and Matthews indicate that this wasn't plan A.

Maybe they didn't want Skinner, so to discourage him they threatened to play him with Marner?

 

[Hellcat]

So now you're pretending that your moving the goalposts to justify your belief was meant to be sarcastic rather than unreasonable and illogical?

I'm having trouble keeping up.

So you think it reasonable to judge a person based on 3 games a year and then flush the regular season and playoff games 1 through 4 ...? you're having trouble keeping up with a simple discussion? Gotcha ...

 

[notDatsyuk]

You have gone on and on that you hope that Marner gets traded on July 1st and are now saying you thought he would stay? Sell it to someone else who believes in your lies

Why is it a lie to say you hope something will happen, but you don't think it will?

 

[Gary Nylund]

He must have had a really good Game 5, 6 and 7 according to Gary those are the only games that count. First it was regular season does not count, then it moved you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage, then Gary further reduced to only games 5,6,7 count ... dude I dont make the rules .. Gary does because only he knows hockey...

If you call someone a liar, and I do think honesty is an important character trait, you should show enough integrity and confidence in yourself to back up those statements with direct quotes... you wouldn't want people to think you are just a person who casts reckless aspersions? If you chose to decline, I think we all know why ...Take your time ....

Wow really, Ok then. See the post above, everything bolded is a lie. I never said any of those things.

You use words like honesty and integrity so over to you. Either show me where I said those things or admit that you're just making stuff up. I especially look forward to seeing which of my statements you've interpreted as "win a playoff series or you are garbage".

 

[notDatsyuk]

So you think it reasonable to judge a person based on 3 games a year and then flush the regular season and playoff games 1 through 4 ...? you're having trouble keeping up with a simple discussion? Gotcha ...

Not at all what I had said.

Do you think it's reasonable to criticize someone for looking at 3 of 7 games and then counter the argument by looking at 2 of 25?

I have no trouble keeping up with a simple discussion, but the seemingly endless convolutions and moving of goalposts is annoying.

 

[francis246]

Wanting him traded specifically on July 1. Let's navigate this thing carefully based on these standards because if Marner kills it next year he would claim that he wanted him traded only on July 1st and no other times.

This is actually factual. Screenshot this for a later date

 

[ACC1224]

One thing everyone can agree on is that it will be great seeing him back playing at 100%.