Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[ACC1224]

Well Gary a 7/8 year deal is the same if the total money matches. I don’t really think players care whether they get 7 or 8 as long as the total money they want matches.

The struggle will be that Marner needs to take a bit of a discount but deserves to make more than Nylander.
Should be an interesting negotiation, not sure if they've started talking yet.

 

[Hellcat]

Talk about restricting parameters, why did it suddenly go from games 5, 6, and 7 to just games 6 and 7, and only in one round?

These playoffs, in games 5, 6, and 7, McDavid had 3 goals and 10 assists in 9 games. 1.44 ppg.

I though framing a debate in an unreasonable and illogical way was the game we were playing. Pretty sure when they induct people into the HOF they ask only one question how did the player perform in games 5,6.7...amiright? Or do they look at the sum of the parts of the players career? Believe it or not there is a standard for assessing a players ability... as much as Gary choses to ignore that standard, the standard is not moving goal posts to justify your belief.

 

[ACC1224]

Burke hasn’t been let go anymore than any other executive in hockey. He actually resigned from Vancouver, Anaheim and Calgary to take other jobs or take a break from hockey all together. He’s only been fired twice.

I don’t see anything wrong with his comments. You guys are weird. Start attacking people who disagree with you. Not everyone in hockey has to dislike Marner because you do.

It's turned into such a childish situation.

 

[Hellcat]

LOL. McDavid won the Conn Smythe despite being on the losing side (only the 6th player to do so) and scored the second most playoff points EVER.

Try again.

He must have had a really good Game 5, 6 and 7 according to Gary those are the only games that count. First it was regular season does not count, then it moved you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage, then Gary further reduced to only games 5,6,7 count ... dude I dont make the rules .. Gary does because only he knows hockey...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well Gary a 7/8 year deal is the same if the total money matches. I don’t really think players care whether they get 7 or 8 as long as the total money they want matches.

Well francis, 7/8 year deals are not the same it the term doesn't match. I'm quite sure that players care that they can use that 8th year to make more money on another contract.

He must have had a really good Game 5, 6 and 7 according to Gary those are the only games that count. First it was regular season does not count, then it moved you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage, then Gary further reduced to only games 5,6,7 count ... dude I dont make the rules .. Gary does because only he knows hockey...

LOLOLOLOLOL. You've backed yourself up into a corner with this comparing Marner to McDavid nonsense so now you're using strawman arguments and straight up lies to try to get out.

Not gonna work buddy.

 

[francis246]

Well francis, 7/8 year deals are not the same it the term doesn't match. I'm quite sure that players care that they can use that 8th year to make more money on another contract.


LOLOLOLOLOL. You've backed yourself up into a corner with this comparing Marner to McDavid nonsense so now you're using strawman arguments and straight up lies to try to get out.

Not gonna work buddy.

The 8th year is irrelevant if the team is willing to spread that money over 7 years. Not sure what’s so wrong about that. It’s what a lot of teams do. Our team just did that with Tanev on a 6 year deal

 

[Notsince67]

Weird how some of the individuals here who accused people of being Marner fan boys for stating that Marner wouldn't be traded are acknowledging now that he probably won't be traded. What a shameless place.
I've heard everything now. Let's talk about how Nylander is a better player for a bit. It's time to go back to that bit of stupidity.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The 8th year is irrelevant if the team is willing to spread that money over 7 years. Not sure what’s so wrong about that. It’s what a lot of teams do. Our team just did that with Tanev on a 6 year deal

If you asked Marner if he's planning to retire at age 35 or sign another contract, what do you think he'd say?

 

[Notsince67]

If you asked Marner if he's planning to retire at age 35 or sign another contract, what do you think he'd say?

He plans to sign for another 4 at 34 so your framing is wrong

 

[Gary Nylund]

Weird how some of the individuals here who accused people of being Marner fan boys for stating that Marner wouldn't be traded are acknowledging now that he probably won't be traded. What a shameless place.
I've heard everything now. Let's talk about how Nylander is a better player for a bit. It's time to go back to that bit of stupidity.

Yelling at clouds so early in the morning. LOL.

I've always said that most likely scenario is that Marner remains a Maple Leaf, does that make me a Marner fan boy?

Hint - the answer is no.

Re. Nylander, sure we can talk if you want to. Regular season I take Marner, playoffs I take Nylander. Marner's just been so bad the last 2 playoff series that it's impossible for to bet on him going forward but regular season when there's no pressure, he's still money in the bank.

 

[ACC1224]

Weird how some of the individuals here who accused people of being Marner fan boys for stating that Marner wouldn't be traded are acknowledging now that he probably won't be traded. What a shameless place.
I've heard everything now. Let's talk about how Nylander is a better player for a bit. It's time to go back to that bit of stupidity.

The 200 or so voting here could still be correct, off season still has a few more months to go.

I've heard a few things recently that are making me rethink this whole mess.

 

[IPS]

How many times have I read about this "hate cult" being nothing more than a small group on HF yet allegedly it's now significant enough to deter players from signing here?

Which exactly is it?

I've always said that most likely scenario is that Marner remains a Maple Leaf, does that make me a Marner fan boy?

Same here. Not exactly sure what he's got his panties in a bunch over this time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He plans to sign for another 4 at 34 so your framing is wrong

You don't know what he's planning, and you don't know the term of his next deal. Nobody knows, we're all speculating here.

He's 27 now, he'll be 28 when his next contract kicks in, who knows what the term will be. Probably between 5-8 years but nobody knows.

But you say 34 OK, can you provide a source?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Same here. Not exactly sure what he's got his panties in a bunch over this time.

It seems like some people don't even need a reason.

 

[thewave]

I guess Pelly or whatever his name is has secured the rest of the season for Mitch Marner Jersey sales. "We're not here to sell Jersey's" he was clearly referring to Jersey cows and not Leafs Apparel.

 

[666]

The struggle will be that Marner needs to take a bit of a discount but deserves to make more than Nylander.
Should be an interesting negotiation, not sure if they've started talking yet.

Marner and Matthews have a history of betting on themselves and winning. I would not be surprised if Marner takes a 4 year deal like Matthews and then one final contract when he's 30 and the cap is up a bunch. Either way, Marner is significantly better than Nylander and will not be getting less.

 

[thewave]

The struggle will be that Marner needs to take a bit of a discount but deserves to make more than Nylander.
Should be an interesting negotiation, not sure if they've started talking yet.

Fine fantasy. Reality is Nylander doesn't deserve what he is getting now and the suggestion you have is we match or exceed Nylander price for Marner. That's called doubling down on stupid.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Marner, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have kids.

That being said, you look at the approach taken by these 3 in all of their contracts, and the theme of "setting a new high bar" has always been prevalent.

Giving Nylander the 2nd contract richer than Pastrnak's was highly unjustifyable at the time. The fact that they let him skip the first half of the year, and monkeyed with the money so he still got paid in full, even more ubsurd.

Then comes Matthews, who could justify that he's worth more than Eichel and less than McDavid, but conveniently left off 2 of the most valuable years of those deals. For this season & next, he'll be paid more than McDavid, and had COVID not happened with the cap being flat for 5 years, he'd have probably been looking at $14m+ to McDavid's $12.5m.

Then comes Marner, who as a winger pushes the Leafs for $10.893 (that then gets boosted because they didn't consider league min salary going up) on just 6 years... meanwhile Rantanen doing the same things he is, signs for $9.25m.

The Leafs had an opportunity to try and "correct course" with this last round of negotiations. It should have started with giving Nylander an ultimatium of $9m or trade... yet they refuse to do so, and again, inexplicably, paid him more than his buddy David Pastrnak, who literally carries Boston offensively.

I don't think there's any way you're going to convince Marner to take $9-10m when he just watched his 2 buddies cash in on ridiculous deals... especially given all the history of wanting to set a new benchmark.

He'd have to have a real "change of stripes" in terms of prioritizing being a Leaf and having a chance to win, putting his ego aside.

Which is why he's got to go.

 

[thewave]

Marner, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have kids.

That being said, you look at the approach taken by these 3 in all of their contracts, and the theme of "setting a new high bar" has always been prevalent.

Giving Nylander the 2nd contract richer than Pastrnak's was highly unjustifyable at the time. The fact that they let him skip the first half of the year, and monkeyed with the money so he still got paid in full, even more ubsurd.

Then comes Matthews, who could justify that he's worth more than Eichel and less than McDavid, but conveniently left off 2 of the most valuable years of those deals. For this season & next, he'll be paid more than McDavid, and had COVID not happened with the cap being flat for 5 years, he'd have probably been looking at $14m+ to McDavid's $12.5m.

Then comes Marner, who as a winger pushes the Leafs for $10.893 (that then gets boosted because they didn't consider league min salary going up) on just 6 years... meanwhile Rantanen doing the same things he is, signs for $9.25m.

The Leafs had an opportunity to try and "correct course" with this last round of negotiations. It should have started with giving Nylander an ultimatium of $9m or trade... yet they refuse to do so, and again, inexplicably, paid him more than his buddy David Pastrnak, who literally carries Boston offensively.

I don't think there's any way you're going to convince Marner to take $9-10m when he just watched his 2 buddies cash in on ridiculous deals... especially given all the history of wanting to set a new benchmark.

He'd have to have a real "change of stripes" in terms of prioritizing being a Leaf and having a chance to win, putting his ego aside.

The Leafs cant help but double or even triple down on dumb moves.

 

[Notsince67]

The 200 or so voting here could still be correct, off season still has a few more months to go.

I've heard a few things recently that are making me rethink this whole mess.

Anything can happen including Marner asking for an out. The possibility was always a 2 party decision. That said, the reports that the sell job to Skinner that he would get to play with Marner and Matthews indicate that this wasn't plan A.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

He must have had a really good Game 5, 6 and 7 according to Gary those are the only games that count. First it was regular season does not count, then it moved you have to win a playoff series or you are garbage, then Gary further reduced to only games 5,6,7 count ... dude I dont make the rules .. Gary does because only he knows hockey...

You failed Kindergarten Logic, didn't you?

 

[seanlinden]

Which is why he's got to go.

Yup.

I've been fairly consistent on this throughout the offseason. You offer him something that makes sense relative to the rest of the league (completely ignoring the problems you entered into with Matthews & Nylander); or you simply work with him to move him to his next destination.

The Leafs don't need to "win" a Marner trade. They could trade him to LA for Kempe & a 1st, and honestly, I'd call that a win even if it leaves a $6m hole in the lineup.

The Leafs aren't winnign the cup this year. There's no sense in treating Marner as a self-rental. Get him onto wherever it is he'd like to go, and that's it.

 

[francis246]

If you asked Marner if he's planning to retire at age 35 or sign another contract, what do you think he'd say?

Marner is gonna get another contract at that age if he wants. Or he can extend. Like I said I think most players want the money, whether it’s 7 or 8 years. As long as it’s there. If it’s on a 8 vs 5 then I think that matters.

 

[Notsince67]

You don't know what he's planning, and you don't know the term of his next deal. Nobody knows, we're all speculating here.

He's 27 now, he'll be 28 when his next contract kicks in, who knows what the term will be. Probably between 5-8 years but nobody knows.

But you say 34 OK, can you provide a source?

Nope

 

[Gary Nylund]

The 200 or so voting here could still be correct, off season still has a few more months to go.

I've heard a few things recently that are making me rethink this whole mess.

Rethinking is a good idea - the reality is that nobody can say for sure what's going to happen with Marner.

Marner and Matthews have a history of betting on themselves and winning. I would not be surprised if Marner takes a 4 year deal like Matthews and then one final contract when he's 30 and the cap is up a bunch. Either way, Marner is significantly better than Nylander and will not be getting less.

Could be a 4 year deal, who knows? As far as him being significantly better than Nylander, that's not so clear anymore. Playoffs, Nylander's been better recently, no question. Regular season, well last season was pretty close and it seems like regular season is what counts the most in contract negotiations, factor in that the cap going up every year so yes, Marner will likely get more than Nylander.

The Leafs aren't winnign the cup this year. There's no sense in treating Marner as a self-rental. Get him onto wherever it is he'd like to go, and that's it.

I agree. However, I can see Shanahan (assuming he's calling the shots) figuring that they're in win now mode because they only have a few years of the stars being in their prime, plus they added Tanev who probably has no more than a couple of good years left. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them selling more futures to win now and if you think the cupboards are bare now, wait'll you see where we're at 5 years from now.

This could get ugly, and I don't mean just a little bit ugly like it is now, I mean quadruple coyote ugly!