Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think Tre has the stones to do that, and Ferris knows it. It appears they won’t trade him so expect another vastly overpaid deal imo………

Maybe Confucious is on the MLSE board?

It does feel like Marner will be resigned. Things are not looking good for the next decade or so to put it mildly.

Confucious strikes me as a sincere fan. He cares more about the regular season than the playoffs which is unusual to say the least but as the saying goes, to each his own.

Don't forget the estimates for Marner's endorsement income are ~$3M+, vs less than $500K for better players like Panarin, Kucherov, etc.

So sure, taxes are higher here. But endorsement $$ is also significantly higher.

Highest-Paid NHL Players 2021-22: Connor McDavid Leads A Top Ten Still Being Stung By The Pandemic

Already paid much less than the stars of the NFL, the NBA and even MLB, the top hockey players have seen their annual earnings fall 27% since 2019.

www.forbes.com

And don't forget that there's no other place in the world where he'd be viewed a god.

 

[ITM]

Here's the thing...

Does it serve Toronto to say something other than: We value Mitch Marner.

Whether its true or not is a separate matter.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I don't know why the leafs care so much about getting a haul. It's been obvious for 5 years that this player and his salary couldn't be a worse fit culturally, stylistically, and cash wise. Just move on. Get what you can and make a change. Do the change you implied, doesn't need to be perfect

 

[mydnyte]

Don't forget the estimates for Marner's endorsement income are ~$3M+, vs less than $500K for better players like Panarin, Kucherov, etc.

So sure, taxes are higher here. But endorsement $$ is also significantly higher.

its sorta strange that people (myself included) always say Marner is only after the $$, but, he has dozens of 3 figure royalty cheques (uncashed) in his safe.
Dont ask how I know this, but, its a fact.

 

[ACC1224]

Either/or.

The difference is that JT KNOWS it's a business. The distinction I have always made between him and Marner is that JT didn't have to come here, he turned down more money to jump into the fire in T.O.

He knows his age, he knows the Cap situation., he knows the anger fans have. If Leafs can move his contract and he agrees to be waived, go for it. Otherwise, he will play out his year.

I'd be trying far harder to get Marner to waive his NMC than I would JT. Of the two, I would only consider re-signing JT (at a much lower AAV obviously). He would make a good 3rd C who can move up to 2nd C when needed.

Ok, still not seeing the connection to Stamkos and now what Tavares has to do with it.
I guess I'm still in long weekend mode, this doesn't make sense.

 

[namttebih]

Reinhart signed for 8.625 because it's the equivalent net income of a 11.5 annual salary in a higher tax jurisdiction.

There are so many other factors. Mitch gets paid in USD while living in Canada. His endorsements in Toronto are also way more lucrative. They'd be even higher if he was still beloved.

 

[ACC1224]

its sorta strange that people (myself included) always say Marner is only after the $$, but, he has dozens of 3 figure royalty cheques (uncashed) in his safe.
Dont ask how I know this, but, its a fact.

Are you sure those aren't stolen cheques from his charity that were supposed to go to the needy?

 

[diceman934]

Trading Marner would be a huge mistake. Mathews scored 69 goals playing with him. JT scored 49 goals with him. Kadri had his best goal scoring year as a Leaf with him. Same as JVR.
Our new coach will sort out the players who do not compete nightly. Marner played for Hunter he will be fine. Nylander will be the first dog house resident.

 

[Hellcat]

That's your fallacy. I'd gladly move off both but Mitch is the guy to move and get something for because I have zero interest in resigning him. If you buy a lemon, are you gonna double down and buy anther one?

On another note:

Shout out to Nick Kypreos. Where are those 28 teams that were lining up to trade for and pay Mitch Marner $100m?

If My lemon ran 200mph , handled better than 99.9% of the other car's and was for the most part reliable when it counted and for the most part outperformed most other cars .. yeah I'd keep him.

What is the double down? If you move Mitch the sum of the parts will never equal Mitch. The fan logic in regards to Mitch is either emotional (Mitch is a douche, looks like a douche) based or group think based - (he's a playoff choker).

The guy who was 11th in points per game is the problem? Oh its not the regular season that is the problem, its the playoffs? He's a playoff choker? He's a point per game player over the last 3 playoffs, despite playing against elite elite goaltending. Vas, Vas/Bob, Swayman.

If a PPG player is a choker, there were 13 players that average more than a point per game in last years playoffs. If 16 teams make the playoffs and there are 18 skaters a side, that means 16x18=288-13=275 chokers.... 275/288= 95.5% of the playoff skaters were chokers last year... trade them all!!!

 

[mydnyte]

If My lemon ran 200mph , handled better than 99.9% of the other car's and was for the most part reliable when it counted and for the most part outperformed most other cars .. yeah I'd keep him.

What is the double down? If you move Mitch the sum of the parts will never equal Mitch. The fan logic in regards to Mitch is either emotional (Mitch is a douche, looks like a douche) based or group think based - (he's a playoff choker).

The guy who was 11th in points per game is the problem? Oh its not the regular season that is the problem, its the playoffs? He's a playoff choker? He's a point per game player over the last 3 playoffs, despite playing against elite elite goaltending. Vas, Vas/Bob, Swayman.

If a PPG player is a choker, there were 13 players that average more than a point per game in last years playoffs. If 16 teams make the playoffs and there are 18 skaters a side, that means 16x18=288-13=275 chokers.... 275/288= 95.5% of the playoff skaters were chokers last year... trade them all!!!

how DARE you use logic!

 

[I am Canadian]

If he's playing out the year, don't talk contract until the off season. He wants to be in Toronto, so no point is muddying the season to make it about Mitch.

Florida did just fine with Reinhart walking to UFA

 

[Nineteen67]

Reinhart signed for 8.625 because it's the equivalent net income of a 11.5 annual salary in a higher tax jurisdiction.

How do you come up with that math? The highest state income tax is around 13% and the average is about 6% Even if they were taxed at the highest rate it wouldn’t be that much of a difference. I think they’re supposed to file in each state they earn income, at least I do, so unless there’s provision I assume they do.

 

[Trapper]

Trading Marner would be a huge mistake. Mathews scored 69 goals playing with him. JT scored 49 goals with him. Kadri had his best goal scoring year as a Leaf with him. Same as JVR.
Our new coach will sort out the players who do not compete nightly. Marner played for Hunter he will be fine. Nylander will be the first dog house resident.

Then trade Nylander. You don’t need 2 wingers making 12 million dollars.
And you can’t win with a core who all have the same struggles with playoff style.
In the end it’s going to be very difficult. Management has made so many bad decisions it’s hard to fight against that and playoffs.

 

[mydnyte]

How do you come up with that math? The highest state income tax is around 13% and the average is about 6% Even if they were taxed at the highest rate it wouldn’t be that much of a difference. I think they’re supposed to file in each state they earn income, at least I do, so unless there’s provision I assume they do.

he's slightly off... that same deal in Toronto would have the below in additional taxes paid, so, a bit over 10 in Toronto as an equivalent

Difference in Tax Paid​

$1,424,180

 

[ToneDog]

If My lemon ran 200mph , handled better than 99.9% of the other car's and was for the most part reliable when it counted and for the most part outperformed most other cars .. yeah I'd keep him.

What is the double down? If you move Mitch the sum of the parts will never equal Mitch. The fan logic in regards to Mitch is either emotional (Mitch is a douche, looks like a douche) based or group think based - (he's a playoff choker).

The guy who was 11th in points per game is the problem? Oh its not the regular season that is the problem, its the playoffs? He's a playoff choker? He's a point per game player over the last 3 playoffs, despite playing against elite elite goaltending. Vas, Vas/Bob, Swayman.

If a PPG player is a choker, there were 13 players that average more than a point per game in last years playoffs. If 16 teams make the playoffs and there are 18 skaters a side, that means 16x18=288-13=275 chokers.... 275/288= 95.5% of the playoff skaters were chokers last year... trade them all!!!

Problem is your lemon can't go the speed limit in April. I get it, if you move Mitch the sum of the parts will never equal Mitch, but what the 3 amigos bring is less than the sum of it's parts in the playoffs. Sometimes you need to change course, taking a step back to take two steps forward.

You can raise all the stats you want. The bottom line is we are 1-8 in playoff series in 8 years with the 3 amigos leading the way. How many more losses do we need before we admit, what we have is not working? I know I have seen enough and I am not alone.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Trading Marner would be a huge mistake. Mathews scored 69 goals playing with him. JT scored 49 goals with him. Kadri had his best goal scoring year as a Leaf with him. Same as JVR.
Our new coach will sort out the players who do not compete nightly. Marner played for Hunter he will be fine. Nylander will be the first dog house resident.

The only problem with Marner is that a few games into the playoffs when teams settle down and start playing defence he becomes a non-factor. Great player otherwise and if you don't care about winning playoff rounds, he's a keeper.

 

[ER89]

its sorta strange that people (myself included) always say Marner is only after the $$, but, he has dozens of 3 figure royalty cheques (uncashed) in his safe.
Dont ask how I know this, but, its a fact.

also for marner shouldn't he take a cheaper deal considering he's from canada and he's going to retire here. Like okay you pay more taxes but the USD to CAD is ridiuclous at this point. Why is that never a consideration from guys who are here like him and JT.

Its f***ing ridiculous. Honestly we need to have an internal cap structure like the canes and the panthers and those that dont adhere to that can f*** off including matthews.

Crest above everything.

 

[Trapper]

How many more losses do we need before we admit, what we have is not working? I know I have seen enough and I am not alone.

Apparently at least one more.

 

[ToneDog]

How do you come up with that math? The highest state income tax is around 13% and the average is about 6% Even if they were taxed at the highest rate it wouldn’t be that much of a difference. I think they’re supposed to file in each state they earn income, at least I do, so unless there’s provision I assume they do.

Leave it to the NHL to implement a hard cap but ignore that teams that play in no tax states have an unfair advantage.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Here's the thing...

Does it serve Toronto to say something other than: We value Mitch Marner.

Whether its true or not is a separate matter.

Bingo.

 

[kevsh]

Trading Marner would be a huge mistake. Mathews scored 69 goals playing with him. JT scored 49 goals with him. Kadri had his best goal scoring year as a Leaf with him. Same as JVR.

You can't have two $11M wingers + a $13M center. It's the Core Four but only Three yet making almost as much money, and almost certainly with the same result.

The Leafs have made their choice when they re-signed Auston and Willie, making Mitch the odd man out. And JT will join him after his deal is done. Then Treliving can build a more balanced roster around those two, Reilly, Knies, etc.

They will miss his passing and him on the PK but the one thing that apparently has to be repeated over and over and over again is that this top-heavy approach, with so much committed to a few star forwards does not work. Or at the very least, does not work with these star forwards.

 

[MCR74]

I watched this presser... Tree doesn't exude happiness when talking about Marner.

Treliving should join HF. He'd quickly realize there are many who feel the same.

 

[Nineteen67]

he's slightly off... that same deal in Toronto would have the below in additional taxes paid, so, a bit over 10 in Toronto as an equivalent

Difference in Tax Paid​

$1,424,180

That’s closer to what I was thinking and that’s at the highest rate. What is the provincial tax rate in Ontario?

 

[Woodman19]

I get the feeling we are being lowballed to death with all the smoke people probably think we are desperate to unload him and we can't take a trade that doesn't let us save face so we are stuck in a status quo loop.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Ok, still not seeing the connection to Stamkos and now what Tavares has to do with it.
I guess I'm still in long weekend mode, this doesn't make sense.

You let him walk even if it means you don't get anything in return. The last option you embrace is a re-signing.

I get the feeling we are being lowballed to death with all the smoke people probably think we are desperate to unload him and we can't take a trade that doesn't let us save face so we are stuck in a status quo loop.

This assumes Marner waived his No Move. A big assumption, no?

You are correct though that teams will low ball Leafs. How many will pay for a $11M a year player of ANY ilk?