Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Kazparov]

So how long until Brad announces the trade?

Marner and Robertson (both extended)+ kampf + 3rd rounder to Utah in exchange for Keller, Bjugstad, and a 1st.

Never

 

[Nineteen67]

I said the vast majority wants to re-sign JT , i didn't say everyone

yup we'll just trade Mitch to the highest bidder like he doesn't have a nmc while also getting him to sign an extension with said team to maximize the return then go out and use whatever cap is left over to overpay in the ufa market

did you take a look at the contracts being handed out yesterday ? i'd rather give Mitch his 12m and force JT out the door even if we get nothing back


did he not have a full nmc yesterday morning ?

Yes, he’s had a nmc for 367 days. Yesterday, after his bonus was paid and before free agency, was the optimal time to announce the trade.

 

[ToneDog]

I said the vast majority wants to re-sign JT , i didn't say everyone

yup we'll just trade Mitch to the highest bidder like he doesn't have a nmc while also getting him to sign an extension with said team to maximize the return then go out and use whatever cap is left over to overpay in the ufa market

did you take a look at the contracts being handed out yesterday ? i'd rather give Mitch his 12m and force JT out the door even if we get nothing back


did he not have a full nmc yesterday morning ?

I'd rather let both walk for nothing. Reinhart signed for $8.625m because he wanted to stay in Florida. Call me when Mitch does the same for the team he says he loves and refuses to waive for. Nah, Mitch's ego won't let him take less than Willie. This core is f***ing rotten. The faster we move off all of them the better off this team is.

 

[Kazparov]

I'd rather let both walk for nothing. Reinhart signed for $8.625m because he wanted to stay in Florida. Call me when Mitch does the same for the team he says he loves and refuses to waive for. Nah, Mitch's ego won't let him take less than Willie. This core is f***ing rotten. The faster we move off all of them the better off this team is.

Reinhart signed for 8.625 because it's the equivalent net income of a 11.5 annual salary in a higher tax jurisdiction.

 

[mydnyte]

Reinhart signed for 8.625 because it's the equivalent net income of a 11.5 annual salary in a higher tax jurisdiction.

and his 57 goals was an aberration, and he had a pretty 'bad' playoffs and was mostly invisible vs the Oil

 

[hotpaws]

I'd rather let both walk for nothing. Reinhart signed for $8.625m because he wanted to stay in Florida. Call me when Mitch does the same for the team he says he loves and refuses to waive for. Nah, Mitch's ego won't let him take less than Willie. This core is f***ing rotten. The faster we move off all of them the better off this team is.

Reinhart just came off a career year but has only had 2 ppg season in his 9yrs in the league , for the most part he's been a 50/60 pt player.

Guentzel is turning 30 in Oct , isn't as productive or as good defensively as MM and he got 9m x 7yrs .

Marner will be 28 if he decides to test the ufa market and is a consistent 90plus pt player while also being good defensively , there won't be a shortage of teams willing to give him the same cap % Panarin and JT got .

 

[ToneDog]

Reinhart just came off a career year but has only had 2 ppg season in his 9yrs in the league , for the most part he's been a 50/60 pt player.

Guentzel is turning 30 in Oct , isn't as productive or as good defensively as MM and he got 9m x 7yrs .

Marner will be 28 if he decides to test the ufa market and is a consistent 90plus pt player while also being good defensively , there won't be a shortage of teams willing to give him the same cap % Panarin and JT got .

I'd gladly let him walk and let the market set his price. Here, it is a shit show thanks to Dubas with 16 and 88 basing their asks on what the unicorn gets.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Notice how TB handled Stamkos. The guy won multiple Cups for them, had a 60 goal season and just came off a strong 40 goal season? They know it's a business. He has been paid very handsomely to shoot a puck, they know their Cap situation and they know who they want to prioritize.

It's a business and Stamkos was part of some dominant teams and their dominance didn't end once the game entered the trenches.

 

[ToneDog]

Reinhart signed for 8.625 because it's the equivalent net income of a 11.5 annual salary in a higher tax jurisdiction.

Sure but if he followed Marner and Nylander he would have asked for Barkov money. Florida has a team culture and they fall in line. We do not. They have a SC, while we have been roaming the desert for 57 years looking for Lord Stanley.

 

[ACC1224]

Notice how TB handled Stamkos. The guy won multiple Cups for them, had a 60 goal season and just came off a strong 40 goal season? They know it's a business. He has been paid very handsomely to shoot a puck, they know their Cap situation and they know who they want to prioritize.

It's a business and Stamkos was part of some dominant teams and their dominance didn't end once the game entered the trenches.

Did you mean to put this in the Tavares thread?

 

[hotpaws]

I'd gladly let him walk and let the market set his price. Here, it is a shit show thanks to Dubas with 16 and 88 basing their asks on what the unicorn gets.

yup Dubas f***ed it all up but if we let him walk then what ?

an okay player like Toffoli just got 6m x 4yrs at 32 yrs old , a decent middle 6 complimentary winger like DeBrusk signed for 5.5m x 7 yrs , hell even a washed Brodie who we sat got almost 4m x 2yrs

the markets nuts and with the cap projected to increase i doubt it gets any better so while people are pissed and want their pound of flesh i doubt taking it out on Marner is going to make us a better team

 

[Voodoo Child]

We always hear about taxes this and taxes that but never about;

- Players in Canada get paid in a much stronger USD - Mitch makes close to 15 mil in local currency.

- Bonus or front loaded payouts paying a lower tax rate.

It’s definitely a factor but I think weather + lifestyle + media pressure is a bigger factor. You’re not gonna be poor anywhere on the planet making over five million US a year - it’s difficult to be poor making over half a mil US.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I'm all aboard the keep Nylander trade Marner train.

That's how far out of favour Marner's stock has fallen with fans. Not that I held him in high regard before this year or anything. It's more a reflection of how low an opinion I hold of Nylander.

For Marner to surpass it is his most remarkable accomplishment to date.

Losing Marner to UFA sounds like an insane idea. The ravings of a madman who spends way too much time than healthy ranting about this team. But what's even more cukoo is the thought of bringing him back for another eight years.

If ever there were a situation where letting a hundred point player walk for no return would be addition by subtraction this is it.

Let some other team pay him eight figures to be a complimentary player. His sweet passes can make anybody he plays with a sixty goal scorer. Just don't expect him to do anything other than skate around and dish the puck off to the real stars whenever he gets pressured.

He only wants to get paid like he does it all.

 

[Trapper]

Notice how TB handled Stamkos. The guy won multiple Cups for them, had a 60 goal season and just came off a strong 40 goal season? They know it's a business. He has been paid very handsomely to shoot a puck, they know their Cap situation and they know who they want to prioritize.

It's a business and Stamkos was part of some dominant teams and their dominance didn't end once the game entered the trenches.

Kenny Rogers said it best.

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

The trouble with the Leafs is they hold on too long to what isn’t working and pursue pieces (who have had better days) to support them too late.

 

[Mess]

To paraphrase: we have asked him to waive to Utah, he as gone to ask his daddy.

One should not expect Leafs management position to change from the status quo until there is a valid reason.

Marner has a NMC and until the Leafs get an offer they like there is no reason to rock the boat, nor even broach the subject.

Until and IF he is traded he is a member of the Leafs and should be treated like every other Leaf player under contract for next season.

Praising Marner in public only maintains his trade value at its highest possible value based on his point production stats etc.

Since Mitch is under contract for 2024-25 at present so there is no pressure point or timeline deadline forcing change until that opportunity presents itself.

 

[Trapper]

I watched this presser... Tree doesn't exude happiness when talking about Marner. He seems frustrated with the very thought and he doesnt deny the rumors either or defend Marner. His demeanor was "Marner won't waive, so he's on the team next year...nothing we can do".

One of my thoughts was that Marner would refuse to waive and decide to step away from his typical offseason of gaming and golf and try to show up management, in hopes to change their mind.

Tree said Marner is training, makes me believe this was what Marner indicated to them. I'm sure Berube pressed him on his lack of strength too.

Personally, it's too little too late imo. This isn't a player who trains, eats, or competes like a champion. He is only paid like one. We needed him ready for the past 5 years.

Take his A away, play him, make him earn everything minute and let him walk at the end of the year. Do not play him with Matthews.

It doesn’t matter if he waives (I don’t think they even asked) because after they preached patience and patterns at the presser and began their deep dive, they came to the realization that he isn’t tradeable.

You expect someone to give up premium assets, deal with his agent and possibly have to pay him and increase on his 11 million (most likely 12+) for the player who has his playoff intensity questioned? All these things will not line up. At all.

Marner is only worth it to the Leafs cause he’s already here and only 1 team would pay him that ridiculous price.

 

[rumman]

We’re going end up letter him walk in UFA next year aren’t we?

I don’t think Tre has the stones to do that, and Ferris knows it. It appears they won’t trade him so expect another vastly overpaid deal imo………

Confucious, yes. He cares mostly about the regular season, and not about the playoffs. It's definitely unusual but he's clear about what he cares about and that's fine.

I agree that there a lot of casual fans who like you say, cheer unconditionally. I would think that most of them do absolutely follow the postseason (at least as long as the Leafs are alive), they just don't really understand what they're watching. And there's so many of them that if Marner gets his 12.5x8 extension, the overall reaction from the fanbase may even be positive. I don't think Confucious is one of those guys though, he seems to be somewhat invested in the team, he just doesn't care about the playoffs and from that POV, Marner's a fantastic player and extending him is a no brainer.

Maybe Confucious is on the MLSE board?

 

[Arzak]

No way, Mitch is not worth his contract? No one willing to trade assets to get this stud?

I'm shocked! Flabbergasted I tell you.

 

[rumman]

Couldn’t load HF for 5 minutes. Thought that it’s gotta bevbecause Marner has been traded.

Turns out it was the Matt Murray signing.

This server sucks, I mean Jason Alliston slow……..

 

[Leafsfan74]

Did you mean to put this in the Tavares thread?

Either/or.

The difference is that JT KNOWS it's a business. The distinction I have always made between him and Marner is that JT didn't have to come here, he turned down more money to jump into the fire in T.O.

He knows his age, he knows the Cap situation., he knows the anger fans have. If Leafs can move his contract and he agrees to be waived, go for it. Otherwise, he will play out his year.

I'd be trying far harder to get Marner to waive his NMC than I would JT. Of the two, I would only consider re-signing JT (at a much lower AAV obviously). He would make a good 3rd C who can move up to 2nd C when needed.

 

[rumman]

and his 57 goals was an aberration, and he had a pretty 'bad' playoffs and was mostly invisible vs the Oil

Until he wasn’t……….

 

[leafs in five]

it was a brutal goal and not even a great shot but yeah he scored a cup winning goal, nice one by him

 

[stickty111]

They can at least take the A away from him. If it were up to me, Matthews C, Rielly A and Nylander A.

 

[613Leafer]

We always hear about taxes this and taxes that but never about;

- Players in Canada get paid in a much stronger USD - Mitch makes close to 15 mil in local currency.

- Bonus or front loaded payouts paying a lower tax rate.

It’s definitely a factor but I think weather + lifestyle + media pressure is a bigger factor. You’re not gonna be poor anywhere on the planet making over five million US a year - it’s difficult to be poor making over half a mil US.

Don't forget the estimates for Marner's endorsement income are ~$3M+, vs less than $500K for better players like Panarin, Kucherov, etc.

So sure, taxes are higher here. But endorsement $$ is also significantly higher.

Highest-Paid NHL Players 2021-22: Connor McDavid Leads A Top Ten Still Being Stung By The Pandemic

Already paid much less than the stars of the NFL, the NBA and even MLB, the top hockey players have seen their annual earnings fall 27% since 2019.

www.forbes.com

 

[ToneDog]

We always hear about taxes this and taxes that but never about;

- Players in Canada get paid in a much stronger USD - Mitch makes close to 15 mil in local currency.

- Bonus or front loaded payouts paying a lower tax rate.

It’s definitely a factor but I think weather + lifestyle + media pressure is a bigger factor. You’re not gonna be poor anywhere on the planet making over five million US a year - it’s difficult to be poor making over half a mil US.

Add the money they get for endorsements. This team/city is a cash cow for them but they are not willing to "spill their blood" in return. They should all be gone but I'm good starting with one.