Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Antropovsky]

Ironically he had plenty of hidden gems that he gave away before they actually turned into good players. Marchment, McCann, Rodrigues, Amadio, Trevor Moore, Noesen, Barabanov, Dakota Joshua etc all gone with basically nothing to show for them all so we could keep around useless chodes like Kerfoot, Holl, Engvall, Malgin etc.

Agreed, some failures in part because his inexperienced coach couldnt coach the best out of players I'm sure. I'm sure he traded Marchment for Malgin because he was busy working on his puck possession stacked roster. Don't beat them in the trenches..beat them on the PP!

Rodriguez wouldn't sign here... rumor was Dubas gave him the same "take a discount but get to play with top end talent!" Used car speech that he gave to Verhaeghe and Bunting. Rodriguez and Verhaeghe wouldn't bite and imnsure many other didn't either.

 

[mikeyz]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805762693951049856

This is beyond sad.

 

[ZEBROA]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805762693951049856

This is beyond sad.

Hockey must be way down the list of sports in Florida. With pétanque and bowling at the top. Or maby Bingo , Bingo is probably classified as a sport in Florida.

 

[Dayjobdave]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805762693951049856

This is beyond sad.

But if you give them a cup, maybe you recruit a few fans. No need to do that where you’d have millions of people in the street.

 

[ACC1224]

Now it's Marners fault they have no fans in Florida. How long before he single handedly destroys the league?

 

[francis246]

Well, if there is a great offer, pretty sure MM would had been traded by now.

Do you honestly think that if Utah comes in with the 100mil extension for MM, then have Keller, Geekie and two 1st rounders.
Pretty sure all parties would had said yes.
And then have the pending physical till July 2 to make it official, but would announce it bc it brings buzz to Utah before the draft and into the off season.

No he wouldn’t!!!! Why is it so hard for people to understand that there is a 7.5 BARRIER that is preventing any deal from happening. NO OWNER IS PAYING THAT BONUS, no matter how much they want Marner. Why would they? If the leafs are able and willing to. They will take him when they only have to pay him $775,000 for the year which is after July 1st.

I’m not sure why that is a hard concept to understand. That is the only thing holding up a deal otherwise Marner would have been traded already IMO.

Ironically he had plenty of hidden gems that he gave away before they actually turned into good players. Marchment, McCann, Rodrigues, Amadio, Trevor Moore, Noesen, Barabanov, Dakota Joshua etc all gone with basically nothing to show for them all so we could keep around useless chodes like Kerfoot, Holl, Engvall, Malgin etc.

Dakota Joshua decided not to sign with the Maple Leafs because he didn’t see a path to making the team. That was his contractual right as per the CBA after finishing 4 years in the NCAA. Dubas wanted to sign him. That’s why there’s big rumours of Joshua signing as a free agent this summer. He wanted to be a leaf just didn’t see a good path to the NHL for them.

 

[francis246]

And what if they say "before July I or no deal"?

Are you saying a team has no problem paying $101M, but won't pay $108M?

Absolutely owners will look to save costs however they can. If the leafs are willing to eat that 7.5 and still trade Marner that is a no brainer from a buisness stand point. Why would I give up real money if I don’t have to. On top of that you’re telling me I have to only pay a 90 point player less than a million in real money for the first year I have him?!

That is why the contracts are structured the way they are. To make the players attractive and tradeable despite their high cap hits.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Perry has 37 points in his last 97 playoff games.
Matthews has 35 in 35 playoff games.
Marner 33 in 37 playoff games.

These stats are for the last 5 years.

Taking Perry over either of these players would be an astronomically bad decision.

It was a stupid answer to your fake cherry picked question.

 

[Trapper]

Run it back !!!

After years of unwavering support, president Brendan Shanahan said the team will "look at everything this summer and consider everything this summer" (from a desk in New York) at Toronto's year-end press conference.

After an exhaustive evaluation (really means at a free drink lunch) we have determined that it’s just too much effort to do anything but run it back and pay guys more.
Instead, we will ship each Leaf fan one memory altering pill, take it and all our excuses will seem like the first time.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Instead, we will ship each Leaf fan one memory altering pill, take it and all our excuses will seem like the first time.

Do you need my shipping address ?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

After an exhaustive evaluation (really means at a free drink lunch) we have determined that it’s just too much effort to do anything but run it back and pay guys more.
Instead, we will ship each Leaf fan one memory altering pill, take it and all our excuses will seem like the first time.

 

[Ports]

He walked over AAV and term.

And what if they say "before July I or no deal"?

Are you saying a team has no problem paying $101M, but won't pay $108M?

Why would anybody say that ? Hockey owners are shrewd businessman. They are able to buy hockey teams because they understand finances. They don’t have any pressure to make a deal before July 1st.

 

[ToneDog]

Why would anybody say that ? Hockey owners are shrewd businessman. They are able to buy hockey teams because they understand finances. They don’t have any pressure to make a deal before July 1st.

Wait three days and save $7.5m. No brainer.

 

[Ports]

Based on he latter part of the season, Domi and Bert.

If we're looking at the playoffs, Domi, Bert, Knies, and maybe even Boosh.

Totally subjective. You can do the same with Edmonton then. My point still stands. Edmonton’s top players are paid less and better playoff performers than the Leafs.

Wait three days and save $7.5m. No brainer.

I know. Makes no sense.

 

[Ports]

Agreed, some failures in part because his inexperienced coach couldnt coach the best out of players I'm sure. I'm sure he traded Marchment for Malgin because he was busy working on his puck possession stacked roster. Don't beat them in the trenches..beat them on the PP!

Rodriguez wouldn't sign here... rumor was Dubas gave him the same "take a discount but get to play with top end talent!" Used car speech that he gave to Verhaeghe and Bunting. Rodriguez and Verhaeghe wouldn't bite and imnsure many other didn't either.

Rodrigues was an RFA with Arb rights after the Leafs traded for him but became a UFA because Dubas didn’t give him a qualifying offer so he signed with the Penguins for $1M.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Rodrigues was an RFA with Arb rights after the Leafs traded for him but became a UFA because Dubas didn’t give him a qualifying offer so he signed with the Penguins for $1M.

Wasn't Rodrigues' qualifying offer over $2M?

Which is why Dubas didn't qualify him. Not sure why Dubas traded for Rodrigues to begin with though. It's shit like this that really shows just how incompetent Dubas was at his job.

Ignoring everything that led up to the Kapanen trade, the fact of the matter is that Dubas traded for a player he didn't even qualify, and then let return to THE EXACT SAME TEAM he acquired him from for no return whatsoever, and on only a one million dollar contract instead of his two million dollar qualifying offer.

Am I the only one who realizes Dubas was responsible for Pittsburgh getting their player half price because of Dubas making this trade?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Absolutely owners will look to save costs however they can. If the leafs are willing to eat that 7.5 and still trade Marner that is a no brainer from a buisness stand point. Why would I give up real money if I don’t have to. On top of that you’re telling me I have to only pay a 90 point player less than a million in real money for the first year I have him?!

That is why the contracts are structured the way they are. To make the players attractive and tradeable despite their high cap hits.

You entirely missed the point of 'now or no deal'. Would a mere $7M prevent you from signing a $100+M deal?

And the contract wasn't structured that way for trade purposes - it was structured that way so the player got paid sooner. If it was to make him more tradeable, why include an NMC?

Why would anybody say that ? Hockey owners are shrewd businessman. They are able to buy hockey teams because they understand finances. They don’t have any pressure to make a deal before July 1st.

Your avoiding the question, probably because you don't like the obvious answer. Thanks.

Totally subjective. You can do the same with Edmonton then. My point still stands. Edmonton’s top players are paid less and better playoff performers than the Leafs.


I know. Makes no sense.

You did the same with Edmonton - that was the point.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Good article

The framework of a Mitch Marner trade: How could Brad Treliving fetch enough value for a top-10 point producer?

As we inch closer to the draft and free agency, we’ve spent a lot of time poring over the Maple Leafs roster as it stands today and identifying the areas they need to address this offseason. A clear list of needs has emerged: A legitimate top-nine center Two real top-four defensemen A quality...

mapleleafshotstove.com

 

[francis246]

You entirely missed the point of 'now or no deal'. Would a mere $7M prevent you from signing a $100+M deal?

And the contract wasn't structured that way for trade purposes - it was structured that way so the player got paid sooner. If it was to make him more tradeable, why include an NMC?


Your avoiding the question, probably because you don't like the obvious answer. Thanks.


You did the same with Edmonton - that was the point.

The contract was structured for both purposes. Even at the time those deals were signed, it was discussed by fans and those in the media that yes the deals give players more money up front, but the back end of the deals make it easier to trade those contracts.

I don’t understand how loudest people know shit all about contracts.

Fans care about 1 thing - salary cap hit

Teams worry about two things, 1. Salary cap hit and 2. Real money salary they have to pay. Teams have internal budgets that have nothing to do with the salary cap that they have to be mindful of, which is why real money matters. For example a team like Ottawa will now be in on a guy like Marner because he is costs so little in real money.

To answer your question, the leafs would never put that pressure on a team.. it’s unrealistic. 7.5 is chump change to the leafs. They are using that feature in the contract as a negotiation tactic to help facilitate the deal, why would they then be apply unnecessary pressure to a team when they are happy to pay the bonus?

 

[kevsh]

yes the deals give players more money up front, but the back end of the deals make it easier to trade those contracts.

Everything you said I believe is correct, but the reason for giving all that money up front is debatable.

On one hand, yes if they were in a position to move a player the less real money toward the end of the deal makes a difference but it is very rare that a player of the skill/impact of a Marner, Matthews or Nylander is going to get dealt even without a bullet-proof NMC.

I think the more likely reason is to keep the overall AAV down. They tell the player that while they will earn less overall salary they get more up front. That way they have the opportunity (investments, real estate, retirement savings, etc) to turn that bonus/up-front money into more money in the end. Win/win.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Good article

The framework of a Mitch Marner trade: How could Brad Treliving fetch enough value for a top-10 point producer?

As we inch closer to the draft and free agency, we’ve spent a lot of time poring over the Maple Leafs roster as it stands today and identifying the areas they need to address this offseason. A clear list of needs has emerged: A legitimate top-nine center Two real top-four defensemen A quality...

mapleleafshotstove.com

Anthony always writes good articles, I've linked his stuff before.

I have to say though I think he's overestimating Marners value in a lot of these deals. He acknowledges this is a guy most see as overpaid, about to be paid even more and with baggage. But then also says stuff like the 6th overall + Clayton Keller is not enough value and Utah would have to add someone like Hayton as well...

I'd definitely take Keller + 6th if that was ever offered.

I'm scared of anything based around Necas, who wants his own big deal is bad defensively and every Canes fans say cannot be a centre. He's like a poor man's Nylander who doesn't do much for us long-term and won't even save much on the cap.

Ambivalent on the Vegas/STL packages discussed.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Anthony always writes good articles, I've linked his stuff before.

I have to say though I think he's overestimating Marners value in a lot of these deals. He acknowledges this is a guy most see as overpaid, about to be paid even more and with baggage. But then also says stuff like the 6th overall + Clayton Keller is not enough value and Utah would have to add someone like Hayton as well...

I'd definitely take Keller + 6th if that was ever offered.

I'm scared of anything based around Necas, who wants his own big deal is bad defensively and every Canes fans say cannot be a centre. He's like a poor man's Nylander who doesn't do much for us long-term and won't even save much on the cap.

Ambivalent on the Vegas/STL packages discussed.

Keller + 6th for Marner would make me jump for joy!

 

[myleafs]

All you gotta do is tell him there are no gods there. He would be the only god.

And no 1st round exits...he gets the whole summer off.

 

[GoonieFace]

Keller + 6th for Marner would make me jump for joy!

Keller is another small winger though, so I’m not sure it makes sense. Value wise it’s a great trade, and would still do the trade just for a change in the dynamic

 

[ToneDog]

Keller is another small winger though, so I’m not sure it makes sense. Value wise it’s a great trade, and would still do the trade just for a change in the dynamic

The difference in cap space gets you a solid dman or forward.