Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Madap]

I'm not done with Marner like I am JT. I can see Marner putting up 100 points next season on a revamped 2nd line. He put up 85 in 69 games. He has the capability to be a star player still. JT is cooked. He's getting PP1 time and easier matchups and only putting up 60ish points.

what? He hasn’t even put up 100 points playing with the best Leaf we’ve ever had. They’re theoretically a perfect pairing and Marner still hasn’t done what you’re suggesting.

And what about the playoffs? Absolutely horrid in the playoffs, with or without Tavares.

Time to move on. He’ll do well somewhere else I’m sure, but he just can’t handle the pressure in Toronto.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree Marner was not up to snuff. But he still had 1 more point than JT at the same caphit. He also missed 13 games down the stretch and was forced to play with a slow boat anchor when he was back. It was not like he put up 3 points playing with McDavid.

Hard to drive a line when you're playing with a cooked JT.

Let's not get carried away dumping on JT. I just looked it up, he was tied for 64th place among forwards in scoring this season, with 32 teams in the league, wouldn't that mean he's still a 1st line forward? Plus he's dependable defensively, strong on the boards and on faceoffs, he was basically Crosby lite so maybe now he's Crosby extra lite but still, a 1st line forward who's strong defensively, that's a valuable commodity and far from someone who's holding Marner back.

Marner played like crap these playoffs, and that's on him and nobody else.

 

[Brobust]

Marner won't have massive success here. I do believe he'll be good elsewhere. It doesn't matter ultimately

It does matter. If you look at the entire team's production, it takes a massive dip in the playoffs. It's not one player. It's something else. It needs to be addressed or there's no point. The guy they trade Marner for will be the same.

 

[ToneDog]

With Marner and with every player on this team, we have consider the idea that it's not them but something fundamentally wrong overall. Every guy leaves and has massive success somewhere else.

Maybe they should spend some time on figuring that out before trading their best players.

Not true. The problem is the common denominator. The core. They are less than the sum of their parts.

 

[Mess]

Mitch Marner has apparently begun pushing back against the Toronto media. According to The Athletic's James Mirtle, Marner has begun to blackball some reporters.​

Marner and reporters in Toronto have had quite a few run-ins over the last couple of years. Just this season, Marner refused to discuss his perceived ankle injury with members of the media in Toronto, repeatedly brushing off their questions and providing non-informative answers.

On Tuesday, Mirtle and his colleague from The Athletic, Jonas Siegel, released a brand new "Leaf Report" podcast, where Mirtle made a wild accusation that Marner has hired private security, who have actually harassed certain members of the media.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

"Wild accusation"? Whose term is that?

 

[Gary Nylund]

It does matter. If you look at the entire team's production, it takes a massive dip in the playoffs. It's not one player. It's something else. It needs to be addressed or there's no point. The guy they trade Marner for will be the same.

Marner "dips" more than the other top guys, the numbers have been posted here before and they're even worse now with the last playoffs in the books.

 

[IPS]

Nothing's ever poor Mitchy's fault. Always the victim.

Still can't believe people run defense for him the way they do even after these playoffs. I'm never defending this contact avoiding pipsqueak ever again

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Let's not get carried away dumping on JT. I just looked it up, he was tied for 64th place among forwards in scoring this season, with 32 teams in the league, wouldn't that mean he's still a 1st line forward? Plus he's dependable defensively, strong on the boards and on faceoffs, he was basically Crosby lite so maybe now he's Crosby extra lite but still, a 1st line forward who's strong defensively, that's a valuable commodity and far from someone who's holding Marner back.

Marner played like crap these playoffs, and that's on him and nobody else.

64th in points. 7th in salary. Something doesn't add up.

 

[IPS]

It does matter. If you look at the entire team's production, it takes a massive dip in the playoffs. It's not one player. It's something else. It needs to be addressed or there's no point. The guy they trade Marner for will be the same.

I read comments like this and I legitimately don't think you even watched the playoffs.

Nobody who watched Mitch this series would try and make this excuse for him.

 

[Brobust]

Marner "dips" more than the other top guys, the numbers have been posted here before and they're even worse now with the last playoffs in the books.

He's actually got more points than the other core guys.

Also, as a playmaker, I think he deserves some leeway when other guys can't finish his passes.

I read comments like this and I legitimately don't think you even watched the playoffs.

Nobody who watched Mitch this series would try and make this excuse for him.

I did not like him in these playoffs. But one series isn't going to make me turn against him. I didn't turn after the Montreal series either.

 

[IPS]

He's actually got more points than the other core guys.

Also, as a playmaker, I think he deserves some leeway when other guys can't finish his passes.



I did not like him in these playoffs. But one series isn't going to make me turn against him. I didn't turn after the Montreal series either.

Been a little more than one series my friend.

 

[Gary Nylund]

64th in points. 7th in salary. Something doesn't add up.

His salary is no excuse for Marner's poor play.

He's actually got more points than the other core guys.

Also, as a playmaker, I think he deserves some leeway when other guys can't finish his passes.

I did not like him in these playoffs. But one series isn't going to make me turn against him. I didn't turn after the Montreal series either.

This has been discussed at length so I'm not going to repeat all the analysis that's been done. If you're happy with the way Marner has played in the playoffs, that's fine. Agree to disagree, disagree very, very strongly.

 

[IPS]

Where is all this defense for Mitch during the series?

Why does all of this drivel always come after the fact? None of the Marner defenders bother showing up during the series because you'd look absolutely silly if you tried defending Marner directly after some of the "performances" he put up.

But show up 4 days after when the games are becoming a more and more distant memory and somehow we're back to blaming Marner's linemates for him not getting more points.

 

[Brobust]

His salary is no excuse for Marner's poor play.

This has been discussed at length so I'm not going to repeat all the analysis that's been done. If you're happy with the way Marner has played in the playoffs, that's fine. Agree to disagree, disagree very, very strongly.

I said I didn't like him. I think there are bigger issues than just one guy. Why does the 50-70 goal guy play at a 30 goal pace in the playoffs? Why are both Nylander and JT playing at a 65 point pace? Why does Marner produce as a 70 point pace?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I said I didn't like him. I think there are bigger issues than just one guy. Why does the 50-70 goal guy play at a 30 goal pace in the playoffs? Why are both Nylander and JT playing at a 65 point pace? Why does Marner produce as a 70 point pace?

Like I said, this has been analyzed to death, agree to disagree. There are other issues for sure, but IMO Marner is the biggest playoff disappointment and not just this season. JT's decline was 100% expected, Marner is in his prime and no offence but his prime playoff performance blows.

Where is all this defense for Mitch during the series?

Why does all of this drivel always come after the fact? None of the Marner defenders bother showing up during the series because you'd look absolutely silly if you tried defending Marner directly after some of the "performances" he put up.

But show up 4 days after when the games are becoming a more and more distant memory and somehow we're back to blaming Marner's linemates for him not getting more points.

Just wait until November. If Marner's still here we'll no doubt be reading how he's super crazy elite, a superstar, smartest player ever and we're too stupid to undetstand his greatness.

 

[bodechek]

There is one option that was not available on the poll, Marner stays, but the Leafs do not give him an extention, thus becoming a free agent. I don't see Marner getting an extention, but I also don't see him waiving his NTC. I can see him and his agent trying to convince the Toronto Maple Leafs to give Marner an extention, but that would be a stupid thing to do. This core four highly paid players have not worked for 8 years, why would anyone think it will work for one more year?

 

[ACC1224]

There is one option that was not available on the poll, Marner stays, but the Leafs do not give him an extention, thus becoming a free agent. I don't see Marner getting an extention, but I also don't see him waiving his NTC. I can see him and his agent trying to convince the Toronto Maple Leafs to give Marner an extention, but that would be a stupid thing to do. This core four highly paid players have not worked for 8 years, why would anyone think it will work for one more year?

Option 2.

 

[gordonshumway]

Thanks for sharing, pretty well thought out trades. First three would be pretty exciting, but they all assume Marner signs as part of the deal, I dunno . .

Doubt Calgary is interested in that, almost 25M locked up in Hubes and Marner?

You cannot be serious... Marner *and* Liljegren, Robertson and Minten for friggin 34yo Markstrom and Andersson?!? I'd take it and run if I was Calgary GM.

Btw, outside of 2021/22, Markstrom's numbers are *very* ordinary, barely a .500 goalie - how is he the solution in the net? If anything, I'd try to get Hellebuyck after that rough playoff he's just had in Winnipeg, but doubt Jets would be willing to move him.

 

[Zack47]

Letting Marner walk: This is my favourite option. People misunderstand what happens when people sign elsewhere as a free agent -- it gets characterized as "getting nothing" for him. This is just dead wrong. Think about this: if you successfully trade him, it is to a team, and your options are defined by the people on that team, and it is a team he agrees to go to -- a further restriction that is major. You may trade him for one big player -- say at 8 million --- and save some money. Or you may get 2 back at around 5.5 million each. But they are both from that one team.

If he walks, you get back 11 million, and you have an open market. yes, it depends on the free agent market in a given year, but if you plan this carefully, that can turn into more choice, not less. So what you get for him are the people you sign with the 11 million dollars.

A specific trade might work, but it seems really difficult to get back exactly what we need.

 

[Zack47]

Just wait until November. If Marner's still here we'll no doubt be reading how he's super crazy elite, a superstar, smartest player ever and we're too stupid to undetstand his greatness.

Not any more. This actually insults the fans. They are not nearly this stupid.

 

[Aashir]

I'm not done with Marner like I am JT. I can see Marner putting up 100 points next season on a revamped 2nd line. He put up 85 in 69 games. He has the capability to be a star player still. JT is cooked. He's getting PP1 time and easier matchups and only putting up 60ish points.

100%

I can also see him putting up another 1G 2A 3P in a first round exit. Why are we still talking about the regular season

Marner isn’t made to play playoff hockey at a first line level. He had one fluke run last year and one actual good series against Boston in 2018. Apart from that he’s been awful.

Everyone saying if we get rid of Marner, then we’d have to fill a Marner sized hole isn’t getting the problem with Marner. Come playoff time, that hole isn’t big.

Let’s see, a pp player, a guy who routinely helps us get shutdown in the regular season and helps run a ~15% pp over his time here in the playoffs, I think a normal second liner making 5-6 can do that

Next up, a pk and defensive cog player who had helped us get a ~70% against Boston..I think another dewar type player can do that, so 950k

Next up, a great even strength producer, who gives us 2-3 even strength points in a series….I think another second liner making 5-6 could do that, maybe the same one as above

Marner doesn’t create a huge hole for us in the playoffs, he’s consistently been a middle six player with his play and results.

 

[9Iron]

This topic is tricky so bear with me and I struggle to find precedent for it. Marner played dirty with the 1st negotiations so now it's the team's turn. Announce/leak that Marner has been asked to waive his NMC and that he will not be resigned with the team. For the good of himself and the team he should waive before the season starts. The good of the team is obvious, good for himself is that he can walk the streets of Toronto without severe derision once his career is over. If he will not waive we get nothing for him and rightly or wrongly he becomes the face of this cores futility. If he waives at least he can be seen in some positive "Leaf" light where in the end he showed he cared a little. A smart campaign like this if picked up by the fans could actually become a factor is his decision. He probably moves to FLA once his career is done but he will still have family and friends here and maybe the team has success that makes them forget about him a bit but otherwise a very negative legacy awaits him. Really hard to imagine this 6-7 years ago where he was probably looking at streets, pets and kids being named after him...

He will go off and have more regular seasons like he has for us but imo he will never be a playoff performer. His size and grit aren't there and his play style relies on time and space. We have to move on. This will put the team in flux next year but either way it becomes a clown show. Better to rip the band aid off right away.

One final thing that really bothers me about him is the fact that he apparently hasn't worked on his strength/physique at all which surely has played into his playoff ineffectiveness through lack of physical confidence and actual leverage. Those photos of him with his shirt off are a complete embarrassment to professional athletes. I just turned 60 and am way more ripped and have more muscle than he does.

 

[Nineteen67]

He does but the fans have the right to Larry Murphy him then.

Absolutely.

 

[ACC1224]

He does but the fans have the right to Larry Murphy him then.

They should start searching the short buses now for that guy that threw the waffles.
Put him on standby.